Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Nick]

The thing about voting perhaps should be linked to human rights? We don’t allow prisoners to vote on the basis of being out of society and not having citizenship status but there’s a part of me which disagrees with that. I’m all for people being allowed to vote at a younger age as well - it might serve to ensure that potential governments consider the more vulnerable in society in their policy design inclusive of teenagers and prisoners... might have an impact on such things as knife crime and reoffending rates if these demographics had a vote.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Swan Lesta said:

The thing about voting perhaps should be linked to human rights? We don’t allow prisoners to vote on the basis of being out of society and not having citizenship status but there’s a part of me which disagrees with that. I’m all for people being allowed to vote at a younger age as well - it might serve to ensure that potential governments consider the more vulnerable in society in their policy design inclusive of teenagers and prisoners... might have an impact on such things as knife crime and reoffending rates if these demographics had a vote.

Certainly if you can work, pay tax, marry and join the army (all of which you can, in theory, at 16), you should be able to vote. I can also see the benefit in allowing certain prisoners to vote, such as those coming to the end of long sentences or serving short ones. Anything that can help people feel like they're part of the society that has punished them for their crimes has to be a good thing in terms of stopping repeat behaviour.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

Great to see you back. you've been missed.

 

 

So it seems.

 

No accounting for taste, I suppose...

[Innovindil]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So it seems.

 

No accounting for taste, I suppose...

Just remember it was posted in the unpopular opinions thread Buce. 

[Guest MattP]

16 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Certainly if you can work, pay tax, marry and join the army (all of which you can, in theory, at 16), you should be able to vote. I can also see the benefit in allowing certain prisoners to vote, such as those coming to the end of long sentences or serving short ones. Anything that can help people feel like they're part of the society that has punished them for their crimes has to be a good thing in terms of stopping repeat behaviour.

You can work at pay tax at any age. You can marry with parental consent at 16. You can't be sent to a war zone at 16.

 

If they can vote at that age then just make adulthood at 16 - I see voting as a huge responsibility, arguably the biggest civil duty you undertake.

 

I'm fine with it providing they can then also do everything else at that age.

[ealingfox]

You can't be sent to a war zone at 85 either so I don't know why the army is always considered to be relevant in debates on this subject.

[Buce]

39 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

You can't be sent to a war zone at 85 either so I don't know why the army is always considered to be relevant in debates on this subject.

 

[urban.spaceman]

I find the removal of the right to vote for people over a certain age quite sinister personally.

[leicsmac]

Yeah, it's a slippery slope and I don't think it's a fallacy in this case.

 

I would hope there are better ways to deal with malicious self-interest and tbh such malicious self-interest is hardly unique to older folks.

[Nick]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

 

 

I see voting as a huge responsibility, arguably the biggest civil duty you undertake.

 

I see voting as a pointless waste of time depending on where you live. 

[Alf Bentley]

4 hours ago, MattP said:

Interesting that Irish citizens can vote in a British election. I didn't know that.

 

I had to check, but it works both ways apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Eligibility_to_vote

So, Brits resident in Ireland can vote in Irish parliamentary elections, whereas resident EU citizens cannot. Brits cannot vote in Irish Presidential elections - but then Irish in the UK don't get to vote for/against the Queen. 

I think Irish in the UK got to vote in the Brexit referendum, didn't they? If so, there's a disparity there.

 

Historical complications would arise if this arrangement didn't apply. My Dad was born in the Irish Free State, never took out dual British citizenship (though he considered it) and always voted in UK elections.

But he had an elder brother and sister who also lived long-term in England, and they were both born when the whole of Ireland was still in the UK - and his sister only died in 2011.

There will still be a handful of people around who were born in what is now the Irish Republic, but was then part of the UK.

[Alf Bentley]

This "concession" that May is offering on workers' rights seems pretty meaningless.

 

As I understand it, in future if the EU changed its legislation on workers' rights, the UK parliament would automatically look at whether to follow suit.

But, firstly, any future parliament could opt to do that anyway. Secondly, any future parliament could look at the new EU laws and choose to ignore them, and increase working hours, reduce H&S, get rid of parental leave or whatever (or use our national independence to improve such measures to a level higher than EU standards ).

 

I see that Frances O'Grady has rejected this "concession" out of hand and she's no Hard Left extremist.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I had to check, but it works both ways apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Eligibility_to_vote

So, Brits resident in Ireland can vote in Irish parliamentary elections, whereas resident EU citizens cannot. Brits cannot vote in Irish Presidential elections - but then Irish in the UK don't get to vote for/against the Queen. 

I think Irish in the UK got to vote in the Brexit referendum, didn't they? If so, there's a disparity there.

 

Historical complications would arise if this arrangement didn't apply. My Dad was born in the Irish Free State, never took out dual British citizenship (though he considered it) and always voted in UK elections.

But he had an elder brother and sister who also lived long-term in England, and they were both born when the whole of Ireland was still in the UK - and his sister only died in 2011.

There will still be a handful of people around who were born in what is now the Irish Republic, but was then part of the UK.

Does make sense.

 

My Grandpa was born in Ireland whilst it was still part of the United Kingdom - unfortunately I never got to talk politics with him as he died when I was eleven but my Mother tells me he loved Tony Benn so it would have been interesting.

[Footballwipe]

Those openly dismissing the latest round of Michael Jackson allegations are essentially condoning sexual abuse.

 

I'm sorry, I genuinely worry about the mental state of people who are defending him; they're utterly bizarre and absolute double-standard hypocrites.

[RonnieTodger]

2 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

Those openly dismissing the latest round of Michael Jackson allegations are essentially condoning sexual abuse.

 

I'm sorry, I genuinely worry about the mental state of people who are defending him; they're utterly bizarre and absolute double-standard hypocrites.

His fans are an extremely strange breed

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

Those openly dismissing the latest round of Michael Jackson allegations are essentially condoning sexual abuse.

 

I'm sorry, I genuinely worry about the mental state of people who are defending him; they're utterly bizarre and absolute double-standard hypocrites.

 

23 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

His fans are an extremely strange breed

Denial in such and other matters is sadly not such a rare phenomenon.

 

Anti-vaxxers and those willing to ignore the effects of climate change because it suits them at the present time come to mind.

[DennisNedry]

Anybody caught with a knife should receive an automatic 6 month prison sentence. Repeat offenders, 5 years.

[Buce]

37 minutes ago, DennisNedry said:

Anybody caught with a knife should receive an automatic 6 month prison sentence. Repeat offenders, 5 years.

 

What about people who have a legitimate reason for having one?

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

What about people who have a legitimate reason for having one?

Think if you just bought one from a shop and it's in its packaging you're fine. I'm struggling to think of another reason you'd be walking a city street with an unpackaged knife.

[Buce]

Just now, Facecloth said:

Think if you just bought one from a shop and it's in its packaging you're fine. I'm struggling to think of another reason you'd be walking a city street with an unpackaged knife.

 

Well, city streets weren't mentioned, just a blanket ban on possession of knives.

 

Loads of tradesmen have legitimate reasons for carrying one, as does anyone who is hiking/camping - I carry one routinely when I go on overnight hiking trips.

[Facecloth]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Well, city streets weren't mentioned, just a blanket ban on possession of knives.

 

Loads of tradesmen have legitimate reasons for carrying one, as does anyone who is hiking/camping - I carry one routinely when I go on overnight hiking trips.

Guess I was just assuming about the streets. Its where the problem is. Obviously there has to be some allowances, but if you're just walking through a city street with one and you're clearly not using it for work it's should carry a charge.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Guess I was just assuming about the streets. Its where the problem is. Obviously there has to be some allowances, but if you're just walking through a city street with one and you're clearly not using it for work it's should carry a charge.

 

 

I agree, but I was referring to the ill-thought-out kneejerk post before yours.

 

Blanket bans are rarely just or necessary.

 

 

[Steve_Walsh5]

1 hour ago, DennisNedry said:

Anybody caught with a knife should receive an automatic 6 month prison sentence. Repeat offenders, 5 years.

What about a Kirpan?

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

What about people who have a Vegemite reason for having one?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Buce said:

 

 

Blanket bans are rarely just or necessary.

 

 

 

I never understood them. On cold nights they are a godsend.