Post-Match Thread - Leicester 2-0 Liverpool (EFL Cup)

[Babylon]

30 minutes ago, Wdywd said:

I don't really buy this because it doesn't make any sense to play Wes/Ndidi/Albrighton if we weren't bothered about winning. I actually believe him saying we're trying to win it. In the last round we started Maguire, Ndidi & Fuchs as well. Apart from Ulloa in both games his team selection has seemed fair enough, a decent mix of starters and still using the squad, which is much better depth wise than we've had for ages.

If we were that interested we'd just start our normal 11. We have to play some first team players with the injuries we have at the minute. I don't think we'd be far off a whole new 11 with everyone available. Plus... I refuse to believe he thinks Ulloa is capable any more .  He's just been bloody awful for quite some time, if he's good to have around and people like him, I can accept a new contract. Bit like how we kept Was around longer than really his performances warranted.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Yeah... he had a decision to make and he made the right call and we won the game. How's that?

 

Look I don't want to get too defensive, because it was a shit show again for the first half. But as I said above, if people are going to moan about every little thing then praise the little things as well.

If only you were so balanced when it came to Chilwell.

 

 

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Would any other player in our squad have the intelligence to cushion that header for Shinji's goal? I don't think so. 

 

He's a work in progress but there were encouraging signs. Did he make an impact on the game? Yes, far more than any other centre midfielder for us recently 

That was an intelligent and class piece of play when many would have tried to score with a backwards header or something stupid. Still it's balanced out by the missed bicycle kick in his own box on defence.

 

22 minutes ago, Ricey said:

His pace also got us out of trouble a lot, particular in the first half. Oxlade-Chamberlain struggled to beat him all night.

True.

 

He blocked a couple when everyone else was beaten. he works hard and is a young inexperienced player. He had Ox in his pocket though.

[SpacedX]

6 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

Exactly. Holding the trigger as long as the Silva problem isn't cleared, but after that the 4-4-2 has to go. At least gegen mid- and top-table teams. 

Who precisely? Even Klopp who is the main architect of this strategy struggles to effect it most of the time. Guardiola has a similar philosophy but the downside to a rapid pressing system is that, if one man doesn’t do his job, the entire structure can collapse which we've seen time and time again at Liverpool. In order for Klopp’s tactics to work, each player must be capable of reading the game, understanding his specific role in any given situation, and adapting quickly in order to keep an opponent firmly under pressure. I'd contend that right now, that isn't the case at Liverpool. When it works the results are spectacular though - remember their 4-1 dismantling of Man City?

 

What amazed me about Liverpool yesterday is how an essentially surrogate side could move the ball so quickly.  In our last league encounter at the King Power we cut that out - particularly those clever rapid releases from Lallana and severed all service to Mane. We won't have to worry about either on Saturday but Coutinho on the other hand is an one man show. 

[Koke]

11 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

Exactly. Holding the trigger as long as the Silva problem isn't cleared, but after that the 4-4-2 has to go. At least gegen mid- and top-table teams. We didn't bring Silva, Iborra and Nacho to further play hoofball or letting them rot on the bench.

 

On top of that none of our midfielders are suited in a 2. 

 

                  Back 4

          Iborra - Ndidi - Silva 

         Mahrez - Vardy - Gray 

 

The positive wirh that 433 is Mahrez and Gray get more license to cause damage. The slight negative is none of those 3 midfielders are "attacking/creative" in a way Fabregas is for example. Another thing is Iheanacho doesn't fit into that formation.

 

I see potential in a 433. I'm not sure Shakey does though.

[somebum]

33 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

If Klopp was a less likeable guy he'd be under huge pressure right now. 

Clearly one of life's blaggers

[Suffolk_fox]

I don't post too often, bit here's my take on last night. Sorry for the length (I don't get too say that too often either!)

 

Amartey - I'm just not convinced. Sometimes he's great, mostly he's average.

 

Ulloa - should never pull on a City shirt again. Pedestrian, poor first touch, does nothing.

 

Slimani - after Coutinho, he was Liverpool's best player, completing more passes to Red shirts than anyone else. Wanders around like he's on an evening stroll, when he does rush a player, he pulls up. Yes he scored a worldy but that's all he did. Showed great passion and energy in his celebration but that's about it. He has a pre match warm up, followed by a 90 minute cool down. Are we just playing him wrong? Or is he just lazy?

 

Gray - Great on the ball, but didn't look up, tries to do everything on his own and his final ball is poor. Hopefully will improve with maturity.

 

Okazaki - I've criticised him in the past for spending more time on the floor than a Yoga mat, but by The Gods he was a breath of fresh air to our team last night. Love ya, fella!

 

Wes - Solid, hard working, keep it up, fella!

 

Drago - impressed with what I saw last night, will improve with game time

 

Iborra - Again, shows promise, could be a City legend and future Captain.

 

Albrighton - worryingly short on confidence, hopefully he'll come good soon!

 

Liverpool in general - if they had any decent finishers, we'd have been buried after 30 mins. 

[Muzzyfox6]

May have been mentioned on the previous 12 pages but does anybody know if Flanagan's kick on Wes was seen by TV and was it as clear cut as it looked from behind the goal? 

[foxy boxing]

We were under the cosh that first half and Hamer made some good saves! but the second half after the introduction of Shinji we were like a different team. the defence stood strong and Slimani scored a great goal. the first half we didn't create any decent chance and obviously needed the pace upfront! Iborra did o.k and set up one of the goals while Dragovic was solid in defence with big Wes!

[WilmslowFox]

yes, was nice to see a few players getting a chance to prove themselves, but can't help thinking that using the game to try out a different formation would have been more beneficial.  it seems that shakey sticks to 4-4-2 irrespective of the opposition or the players available (and would probably stick with the same line-up too if injuries didn't force his hand).  this inflexibility makes us stale and predictable.

 

if there's one thing this game showed its that we have a wealth of quality CBs, so why not at least try a back 3 with wing backs?

[ZeGuy]

2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Who precisely? Even Klopp who is the main architect of this strategy struggles to effect it most of the time. Guardiola has a similar philosophy but the downside to a rapid pressing system is that, if one man doesn’t do his job, the entire structure can collapse which we've seen time and time again at Liverpool. In order for Klopp’s tactics to work, each player must be capable of reading the game, understanding his specific role in any given situation, and adapting quickly in order to keep an opponent firmly under pressure. I'd contend that right now, that isn't the case at Liverpool. When it works the results are spectacular though - remember their 4-1 dismantling of Man City?

 

What amazed me about Liverpool yesterday is how an essentially surrogate side could move the ball so quickly.  In our last league encounter at the King Power we cut that out - particularly those clever rapid releases from Lallana and severed all service to Mane. We won't have to worry about either on Saturday but Coutinho on the other hand is an one man show. 

The ManC dismantling, largely due to Peps hubris thinking he'd have a walk in the park,  shouldn't be considered as it won't happen again.

 

I'm not advocating Gegenpressing but a midfield three. I thought in german and gegen which means "against" just slipped through.  

This against any team of the top 6, Everton and the likes WBA or Southampton.

 

The main disadvantages I see in the 4-4-2 are:

 

- We don't have midfielders to play in a two.

- Midfielders are too far from the wingers and the forwards leading 9/10 to a hoof or backpass to the defense which will hoof it

- It frustrates the wingers, since most of the balls are given in such conditions that the ball is either lost or not practicable.

- It forces us as Koke said to use a striker (Shinji) to compensate the man missing in the middle. Shaky solution that greatly reduces our attacking potential (with all due respect Shinji isn't the best when it comes to attack) without really satisfying the defense problem (see games away and against top 6)

- It forces us to bench at least two strikers (Nacho or Slim aren't Shinji when it comes to harass the opponent but are certainly more effective forward) thwarting further our attacking potential.

- We spend most of the time chasing shadows, getting the ball by chance only to lose it 2 passes or one hoof later.

- Double/trebble on Mahrez and so much for the attacking threat.

 

If we go 4-4-2, the midfield you saw yesterday is very probably the one that will start. This means Coutinho will run the show again with the difference that their full squad, especially Salah and Firminho will be there. Not some bum from Liverpools reserve. Happy that Mane is suspended but Salah is a nightmare to defend on.

 

The only positive point is that their defense is truly shit and I'm fairly certain that we will score at some point. How much and will it be enough is that what worries me a bit.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

12 hours ago, StanSP said:

can't wait til we get Man Utd away in the next round and Shakey starts these 3  

 

Jesus it looks like 3 kids that are good at maths lagging behind the rest of the kids in a cross country race.

 

'Professional athletes'

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Moan moan moan. Who gives a toss how we played, we won, saw a great goal and we're through to the next round.

That's short term thinking at its finest. We were balls and 2 goals against a makeshift defence doesn't mask it!

[Babylon]

39 minutes ago, FIF said:

If only you were so balanced when it came to Chilwell.

Read everything before commenting yeah. "He was like a lot of the others, good flashes (blocks, charges forwards) but then followed not up with some doggo stuff. Not just him at all, most were like that. Only three players probably walk away from that without some criticism. "

[filbertway]

Please please play 4 3 3 or 3 5 2 on Saturday. I can't handle us just sitting off teams and basically playing an 8 1 1 formation. It's awful and going to take us nowhere.

[filbertway]

Just now, Babylon said:

Read everything before commenting yeah. "He was like a lot of the others, good flashes (blocks, charges forwards) but then followed not up with some doggo stuff. Not just him at all, most were like that. Only three players probably walk away from that without some criticism. "

 

Chilly did the most brain dead thing i've ever seen yesterday, since Schlupp graced the pitch for us.

 

Cleverly ran back anticipating a cross, then didn't have the awareness to know he had acres of space to guide a header back to Hamer or let the ball run for a goal kick. So just panicked, tried to head it away and ended up gifting them possession on the edge of our box haha.

 

I expect these kind of errors from young lads getting to grips with the game and don't mind them making them as long as they're given the chance to go out again and improve. If they are given that chance and continue to make the same errors then you can start to question if they're going to cut it.

 

Top notch block to prevent the Ox scoring and looked like one of a few players that had the confidence/ability to try and play football when it actually came to him.

[foxinsocks]

58 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

Reading the Liverpool forum is funny.

 

They basically saw the second half the same way we saw the first! 

 

I think Liverpool will be very dangerous on Saturday, they'll want revenge. We were lucky not to concede in the first half. I hope with Maguire in for Drago (who had a good game) and KS for Hamer (who did well), we will be even more solid at the back and limit their chances. Do we play Iborra in mid-field again? I think we might. The more game time Ndidi and Iborra get together the better. Start Vardy and Iheanacho? Bring on Okazaki with 20 to go to scare the Liverpool defence again!? It will be a very interesting game on Saturday!

It's early days... iborra looked classy but way way off the pace for the pl

I hope this isnt another case if a foreign player unable to adapt to the lack  of time and space in the pl.

I am hoping he suceeds ... but i was dissapointed last night. ..  these guys must be alive to the issue. ..so i expected him to be ready. Truth is he was too slow for liverpool reserves...  work needed

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

Truth is he was too slow for liverpool reserves...  work needed

He wasn't their reserves in midfield was it? 

 

Only missing Can over Grujic. Other than that it was first choice for their midfield. 

[SpacedX]

15 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

The ManC dismantling, largely due to Peps hubris thinking he'd have a walk in the park,  shouldn't be considered as it won't happen again.

 

Against Liverpool? I disagree.

 

16 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

I'm not advocating Gegenpressing but a midfield three.

 

I know. I was pointing out that there are very few teams in the EPL that employ it - if any. I think that is a major part of Klopp's frustration is that something that he engendered to such devastating effect at Borussia Dortmund seems to be very difficult to engineer with the players that he has at Liverpool. 

 

19 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

The main disadvantages I see in the 4-4-2 are:

 

- We don't have midfielders to play in a two.

- Midfielders are too far from the wingers and the forwards leading 9/10 to a hoof or backpass to the defense which will hoof it

- It frustrates the wingers, since most of the balls are given in such conditions that the ball is either lost or not practicable.

- It forces us as Koke said to use a striker (Shinji) to compensate the man missing in the middle. Shaky solution that greatly reduces our attacking potential (with all due respect Shinji isn't the best when it comes to attack) without really satisfying the defense problem (see games away and against top 6)

- It forces us to bench at least two strikers (Nacho or Slim aren't Shinji when it comes to harass the opponent but are certainly more effective forward) thwarting further our attacking potential.

- We spend most of the time chasing shadows, getting the ball by chance only to lose it 2 passes or one hoof later.

- Double/trebble on Mahrez and so much for the attacking threat.

 

Great analysis and I very much agree.

 

20 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

 

If we go 4-4-2, the midfield you saw yesterday is very probably the one that will start. 

 

Disagree - I think for better of for worse, he'll start King in preference to Iborra. 

[foxinsocks]

4 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

He wasn't their reserves in midfield was it? 

 

Only missing Can over Grujic. Other than that it was first choice for their midfield. 

You're right.  But he was struggling.... but he'll be better prepared next time.

This aint Spain 

[yorkie1999]

20 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

That's short term thinking at its finest. We were balls and 2 goals against a makeshift defence doesn't mask it!

Oh right, what you planning for then. Take every result as it comes. We were a makeshift team last night and we beat a team with the likes of coutinho in it

[Merging Cultures]

18 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

It's early days... iborra looked classy but way way off the pace for the pl

I hope this isnt another case if a foreign player unable to adapt to the lack  of time and space in the pl.

I am hoping he suceeds ... but i was dissapointed last night. ..  these guys must be alive to the issue. ..so i expected him to be ready. Truth is he was too slow for liverpool reserves...  work needed

I agree, I am just trying to think like CS!! I think he'll play him again, especially as we won.

[whoareyaaa]

great turnaround 2nd half, take note.

[ZeGuy]

15 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Against Liverpool? I disagree.

 

I know. I was pointing out that there are very few teams in the EPL that employ it - if any. I think that is a major part of Klopp's frustration is that something that he engendered to such devastating effect at Borussia Dortmund seems to be very difficult to engineer with the players that he has at Liverpool. 

 

Great analysis and I very much agree.

 

Disagree - I think for better of for worse, he'll start King in preference to Iborra. 

I don't know, their defense might be shit but they aren't all over the place like City were at that time.

 

I saw him when he was managing the Borussia Dortmund. I think the big difference is the incredible discipline and the technical quality of the players. From the defense to the attack. They also had Hummels at the back who was at that time largely our best defender (above Boateng. Personal opinion). That made Dortmund one of the most exciting team to watch and I was truly sad when they lost against Bayern in the CL final.

 

If he starts King and Ndidi in a midfield two against Liverpool, if he's that mad then he rightfully deserves to be sacked.

[DelBoy73]

11 hours ago, Struwwelpeter60 said:

What can we learn from this weird match?

 

1. Liverpool without Couthinho, Firmino, Salah , Sane and

    Sturridge up front are only an average PL side.

 

No shit Sherlock, that front-line alone is worth at the very least £200M in todays market, no wonder they are an average side without them.

 

[RonnieTodger]

Brilliant as soon as Okazaki came on, but **** me I think that was the most dreadful 45 minutes I've ever watched. I hope he remembers the team that finished the game, and not the one that started.I'm sure Ulloa was actually good once, but he is the absolute pits now. Time to get rid, he literally offers nothing anymore. 

 

What a goal from Slimani. It all makes sense now, he's actually left footed! 

 

Klopp taking Coutinho off at 0-0 was bizarre. He's lost here on all 3 of his visits! Really hope that becomes 4 on Saturday, but it won't if we stick to same turgid shite that we saw first half. Get into 'em.