Reasons to keep Shakespeare

[Detroit Blues]

Okay, let's say we magically go back into a time machine, and put a world class manager in charge of Leicester City to start the season. His choice of midfielders are Ndidi, Andy King, and he gets a couple appearances out of Matty James. He can't bring in any new midfielders. He gets to face 4 of the top 7 teams in the premier league. 

 

How does he lineup differently to cover up having the worst central midfield pair in the premier league? Do you take off okazaki/ihenacho/etc for a 3rd midfielder, if so who? Does switching to wing backs really fix the issue? Who would be our 3rd CB with Huth injured. Fuchs?

 

It just seems like when you have a roster as limited as ours has been, you don't have the freedom to change the formation and tactics. 

 

 

 

[goose2010]

Keep him, as the only person that i could see we would get is Pardew and i think that would be time for me to call it a day as a season ticket holder.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

22 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

Okay, let's say we magically go back into a time machine, and put a world class manager in charge of Leicester City to start the season. His choice of midfielders are Ndidi, Andy King, and he gets a couple appearances out of Matty James. He can't bring in any new midfielders. He gets to face 4 of the top 7 teams in the premier league. 

 

How does he lineup differently to cover up having the worst central midfield pair in the premier league? Do you take off okazaki/ihenacho/etc for a 3rd midfielder, if so who? Does switching to wing backs really fix the issue? Who would be our 3rd CB with Huth injured. Fuchs?

 

It just seems like when you have a roster as limited as ours has been, you don't have the freedom to change the formation and tactics. 

 

 

 

I think you don’t go into every game looking for a draw for starters.

 

Also with the weakest part of our side being the midfield players, you need to shore that area up with 3 in there instead of 2. It’s been totally unreasonable to expect any of our two CMs to come out on top against the opposition’s three. 

 

Fans can see this at present as

the root of our problems, yet game after game Shakey has carried on, and has produced the worst football in the division I would say.

 

We are very lucky not be on 3pts and not the 5 we have. In the two draws against the lesser teams we have been out thought and out played.

 

Any kids team manager would have took action in the face of what’s been going on.

 

Thats why the excuses of tough fixtures don’t wash. He is not done the basics right in any of these games. 

 

Even Brighton told a story. Created very little in open play - fumble from the keeper for Shijis goal and a goal from a corner.

 

They were there for the taking but he showed no interest in pushing for more goals to breed confidence.

 

The players now look as though they now don’t believe he’s up to the task, and they are correct.

 

Ten days to get someone else sorted - I don’t know who is available but the Thais need to throw some money at getting a figure head who the players can respect.

 

I think we have the players to make a decent side again if we get somebody in with a plan and or a bit of charisma.

 

[Guest Col city fan]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

We don’t have to stick with the midfield as it is, we can change it very simply by having 3 in there instead of 2.

 

Why do we find it so hard to play a midfield 3?

Iborra is tailor made for a midfield 3. Andy King would look better in a midfield 3. Crickey....even Amartey might look ok in a midfield 3.

We don't have midfielders who look natural in a central midfield 2. We just don't. Why aren't we playing a midfield that accommodates the type of midfielder we have at the club?

[foxinsocks]

Hes not a bad man   and he worjs cheap.

 

Thilese are 2 reasons to keep him.  But there are many things that sugest he is not the messiah. .... the earlier we recognise this and move on the better

[NotTheMarketLeader]

37 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Why do we find it so hard to play a midfield 3?

Iborra is tailor made for a midfield 3. Andy King would look better in a midfield 3. Crickey....even Amartey might look ok in a midfield 3.

We don't have midfielders who look natural in a central midfield 2. We just don't. Why aren't we playing a midfield that accommodates the type of midfielder we have at the club?

I know it’s plain daft.

 

Its not impossible to think it may solve most of our ills I’m the short term. 

 

Try it Shakey man; it’s a no brainier; carry on as is and you will be sacked.

[deep blue]

4 hours ago, Detroit Blues said:

Okay, let's say we magically go back into a time machine, and put a world class manager in charge of Leicester City to start the season. His choice of midfielders are Ndidi, Andy King, and he gets a couple appearances out of Matty James. He can't bring in any new midfielders. He gets to face 4 of the top 7 teams in the premier league. 

 

How does he lineup differently to cover up having the worst central midfield pair in the premier league? Do you take off okazaki/ihenacho/etc for a 3rd midfielder, if so who? Does switching to wing backs really fix the issue? Who would be our 3rd CB with Huth injured. Fuchs?

 

It just seems like when you have a roster as limited as ours has been, you don't have the freedom to change the formation and tactics. 

 

 

 

You haven't mentioned Iborra or Amartey in your list of midfielders we currently have available (not Amartey's best position, probably, but he's had quite a few games in there and is by no means hopeless). So, to make up a 3 man midfield we have a choice from 4 players - those 2 plus Ndidi and King. Whilst not the 4 best midfielders in the game, you can select an adequate 3-man midfield from those 4 that would keep us afloat until Silva becomes available.

[Detroit Blues]

4 minutes ago, deep blue said:

You haven't mentioned Iborra or Amartey in your list of midfielders we currently have available (not Amartey's best position, probably, but he's had quite a few games in there and is by no means hopeless). So, to make up a 3 man midfield we have a choice from 4 players - those 2 plus Ndidi and King. Whilst not the 4 best midfielders in the game, you can select an adequate 3-man midfield from those 4 that would keep us afloat until Silva becomes available.

I thought Iborra was injured, and not match fit until last game? 

 

I honestly forgot Amartey was still in the squad

I also forgot to mention Mendy if we're keeping score.

[biggs]

3 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Why do we find it so hard to play a midfield 3?

Iborra is tailor made for a midfield 3. Andy King would look better in a midfield 3. Crickey....even Amartey might look ok in a midfield 3.

We don't have midfielders who look natural in a central midfield 2. We just don't. Why aren't we playing a midfield that accommodates the type of midfielder we have at the club?

I'd have Mahrez as an attacking midfielder where he'd see the ball more and his defensive 'qualities' wouldn't be so much an issue. Have Gray and Albrighton (maybe even Chilwell) on the wings.

[Fox 4 Life]

He's got a cracking pair!

[Tuna]

33 minutes ago, Fox 4 Life said:

He's got a cracking pair!

Indeed, here are some pics from my personal collection:

 

 

 

[GaelicFox]

So he can Pearson’s number 2 when Big Nige comes back 

[EnglishOxide]

8 hours ago, AjcW said:

Well... he makes it work with world class wing backs... you've got a lad who wants to be a striker and a young full back in those positions  

 

Also not entirely sure Kasper is a sweeper keeper... he can't kick it in a straight line when he's not under pressure. 

 

Hey don't spoil the dream man.

[volpeazzurro]

11 hours ago, Detroit Blues said:

Okay, let's say we magically go back into a time machine, and put a world class manager in charge of Leicester City to start the season. His choice of midfielders are Ndidi, Andy King, and he gets a couple appearances out of Matty James. He can't bring in any new midfielders. He gets to face 4 of the top 7 teams in the premier league. 

 

How does he lineup differently to cover up having the worst central midfield pair in the premier league? Do you take off okazaki/ihenacho/etc for a 3rd midfielder, if so who? Does switching to wing backs really fix the issue? Who would be our 3rd CB with Huth injured. Fuchs?

 

It just seems like when you have a roster as limited as ours has been, you don't have the freedom to change the formation and tactics. 

 

 

 

Not quite an honest and true analysis there is it. At the start of those games it was before injury. Shakespeare had Ndidi, James , Iborra, King and Armarty to choose from. Against some of the best and costliest midfields in the Premiership he chose a weak midfield 2 against their different formations ie Ndidi and James against Matic, Pogba and Mata for example. We've even been over run by Huddersfield and Bournemouth!  Each game even allowing for injuries he's had enough for a midfield 3 on Saturday he had Iborra , King , Armarty and Ndidi available to chose from or each game he could have played a 352 or similar. I don't fall for this lack of midfielders crap.  What it is is a simple lack of organisation. When is someone going to wake the clown up and tell him Kante and Drinkwater are gone, we haven't the staff to play that way anymore!

[volpeazzurro]

Burnley, Watford, Stoke , Newcastle and Huddersfield.  All these teams are above us and yet could not their squads benefit from a number of our players? I bet Dyche or  Wagner could find a place for our costly subs of Iheanacho , Iborra , Musa, Dragovic , Gray and Armarty let alone the luxury of being able to throw in a Vardy, Marhez or Maguire! How do they both manage it with what they've got compared with us? 

 

It's called playing a team and formation to your players strengths but having done a little research into the opposition. Sometimes they can't even afford to do the latter too much due to the lack of players. We don't have that problem as we've got some costly brilliant talent compared to those teams but .... but we have Shakespeare instead of say Wagner or Dyche. 

[suffolk fox]

14 hours ago, Detroit Blues said:

Okay, let's say we magically go back into a time machine, and put a world class manager in charge of Leicester City to start the season. His choice of midfielders are Ndidi, Andy King, and he gets a couple appearances out of Matty James. He can't bring in any new midfielders. He gets to face 4 of the top 7 teams in the premier league. 

 

How does he lineup differently to cover up having the worst central midfield pair in the premier league? Do you take off okazaki/ihenacho/etc for a 3rd midfielder, if so who? Does switching to wing backs really fix the issue? Who would be our 3rd CB with Huth injured. Fuchs?

 

It just seems like when you have a roster as limited as ours has been, you don't have the freedom to change the formation and tactics. 

 

 

 

Doesn't matter who the manager is really does it?  Its all ifs, buts and maybes?  However, he could have tried changing formation, putting three in midfield.  Admittedly, Iborra was injured at the start of the campaign but of the midfielders available King, James, Ndidi and Amartey.  Amartey has not been given a chance by him to see what he can do in midfield.  He starts with Ndidi and James in midfield against Arsenal and to be fair we give a reasonable account of ourselves up until the 80th minute when for some reason he subs James who had been playing well and brings on a striker in inheacho.  We lose 4 3.  After that he sticks to the tried and tested we beat a poor Brighton at home.  Go negative against Utd, away play poorly steal a point at Huddersfield and likewise at Bournemouth.

 

He just does not set us up to be adventurous fearing a heavy defeat so its always damage limitation with him.  Similar to someone else at the start of the 14/15 campaign.  He sticks by his loyal players, cant change or wont change our playing style, makes ridiculous subs, 4 strikers at the end of the game against Liverpool at home? 

 

A good premier league manager can see what goes on during a game, can change tactics, shape and formation accordingly, in order for the team to be more effective.  To me, Shakespeare cant do this through inexperience as a manager.  For these reasons for me he has to go.

[filthyfox]

We have only hac 3 games that we could have expected to get anything from.... We got 5 points. The next two games are crucial, and if we don't get another 4 points, I think the criticism would be justified....    RUDKIN OUT

[GaelicFox]

9 minutes ago, filthyfox said:

We have only hac 3 games that we could have expected to get anything from.... We got 5 points. The next two games are crucial, and if we don't get another 4 points, I think the criticism would be justified....    RUDKIN OUT

It’s justified already , if you cannot see that you really are passionless and I suspect you make love like a wilting lettus leaf 

[filthyfox]

36 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

It’s justified already , if you cannot see that you really are passionless and I suspect you make love like a wilting lettus leaf 

When players are signed that are supposed to improve the squad, yet either sulk (Slimani), get injured before they play a game (Iborra) or crocked on their first game (Wagué,  Mendy, Ian Nacho ), or are down right SHITE  (Hernandez) one really must question the recruitment, rather than the manager of a team that is formed around the frame of a Championship squad.... that performed a MIRACLE. RUDKIN OUT

[Guest Col city fan]

3 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Burnley, Watford, Stoke , Newcastle and Huddersfield.  All these teams are above us and yet could not their squads benefit from a number of our players? I bet Dyche or  Wagner could find a place for our costly subs of Iheanacho , Iborra , Musa, Dragovic , Gray and Armarty let alone the luxury of being able to throw in a Vardy, Marhez or Maguire! How do they both manage it with what they've got compared with us? 

 

It's called playing a team and formation to your players strengths but having done a little research into the opposition. Sometimes they can't even afford to do the latter too much due to the lack of players. We don't have that problem as we've got some costly brilliant talent compared to those teams but .... but we have Shakespeare instead of say Wagner or Dyche. 

That's the point really I guess.

Do people consider, with the squad we have, that we are UNDERPERFORMING?

Could someone else take these players and get much better out of them?

I'm a bit mixed on this. I'm not sure some of our players are that brilliant anyway  (Wes, King, Albrighton, Gray, Slim, James, Amartey) but I DO think that we can play better than we are doing.

[The Doctor]

57 minutes ago, filthyfox said:

We have only hac 3 games that we could have expected to get anything from.... We got 5 points. The next two games are crucial, and if we don't get another 4 points, I think the criticism would be justified....    RUDKIN OUT

It's justified already tbf. I can about see the point of setting up with a solid base first and foremost at man Utd, but we know just how good we can be when we play with a positive mentality and look to play the game fast and on the front foot - we dealt Sevilla their first defeat in a knockout situation in three years playing that way, we went that way vs atletico and they spent the second half hanging on, so why are we setting up to knick a point at a newly promoted side or a midtable side like Bournemouth? Either he doesn't see we have to play that way, or he's not got the nerve to try it.

[filthyfox]

5 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

It's justified already tbf. I can about see the point of setting up with a solid base first and foremost at man Utd, but we know just how good we can be when we play with a positive mentality and look to play the game fast and on the front foot - we dealt Sevilla their first defeat in a knockout situation in three years playing that way, we went that way vs atletico and they spent the second half hanging on, so why are we setting up to knick a point at a newly promoted side or a midtable side like Bournemouth? Either he doesn't see we have to play that way, or he's not got the nerve to try it.

It's one point better than a fit team of superstars who had just won the Prem got at Bournemouth last year... I was there IT WAS SHITE! Our best players are either injured or don't give a shit. No manager can change that..... you would have to be an ostrich not to blame the recruitment over the last two years.

[Babylon]

4 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Burnley, Watford, Stoke , Newcastle and Huddersfield.  All these teams are above us and yet could not their squads benefit from a number of our players? I bet Dyche or  Wagner could find a place for our costly subs of Iheanacho , Iborra , Musa, Dragovic , Gray and Armarty let alone the luxury of being able to throw in a Vardy, Marhez or Maguire! How do they both manage it with what they've got compared with us? 

 

It's called playing a team and formation to your players strengths but having done a little research into the opposition. Sometimes they can't even afford to do the latter too much due to the lack of players. We don't have that problem as we've got some costly brilliant talent compared to those teams but .... but we have Shakespeare instead of say Wagner or Dyche. 

It's all very well chucking around what the likes of Wagner might do, he's a good manager. But shall we look at his first 33 games for Huddersfield? Lost 16, Won 10, Drew 7 and he signed virtually a new squad of the players he wanted before going on a rampage.

 

CS has been given 7 games as permanent manager, it's not looking great for him. But what we're seeing is almost exactly the same as we saw last season from these players. As has been alluded to already, perhaps we need to start looking a little deeper than just the manager. Because you could sign Wagner, he loses 5 of his first 7 like he did at Huddersfield and people would be on his backs.

[ZeGuy]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

It's all very well chucking around what the likes of Wagner might do, he's a good manager. But shall we look at his first 33 games for Huddersfield? Lost 16, Won 10, Drew 7 and he signed virtually a new squad of the players he wanted before going on a rampage.

 

CS has been given 7 games as permanent manager, it's not looking great for him. But what we're seeing is almost exactly the same as we saw last season from these players. As has been alluded to already, perhaps we need to start looking a little deeper than just the manager. Because you could sign Wagner, he loses 5 of his first 7 like he did at Huddersfield and people would be on his backs.

Of course it takes time for a Manager to put his stamp on a team and get it to click. But what's worrying is Shakespeare's reluctancy to adapt to the opponent and his actual set-up.

 

We're completely by-passing the midfield in the offensive phase and rarely make more than three successive passes. We lose the ball after max. 10 seconds, the defense is under constant fire and the attacking players are receiving proper shit balls. We're expecting from the forwards to score from a single occasion. This is demoralizing.

 

It can't go on. Silva is out until and january and god knows how much time it will take to make him match fit. That means that we're going to see Andy King in the middle until the mid-season. In a midfield two, that's suicide. He has to switch or he's gone in less than 4 games.

[Babylon]

Just now, ZeGuy said:

Of course it takes time for a Manager to put his stamp on a team and get it to click. But what's worrying is Shakespeare's reluctancy to adapt to the opponent and his actual set-up.

 

We're completely by-passing the midfield in the offensive phase and rarely make more than three successive passes. We lose the ball after max. 10 seconds, the defense is under constant fire and the attacking players are receiving proper shit balls. We're expecting from the forwards to score from a single occasion. This is demoralizing.

 

It can't go on. Silva is out until and january and god knows how much time it will take make him match fit. That means that we're going to see Andy King in the middle until the mid-season. In a midfield two, that's suicide. He has to switch or he's gone in less than 4 games.

I don't think that's what he's asking at all, just like the more I see it the more I think CR didn't want that either. We've got a bunch of players who are low on effort, low on confidence and low on technical ability.