Reasons to keep Shakespeare

[ZeGuy]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I don't think that's what he's asking at all, just like the more I see it the more I think CR didn't want that either. We've got a bunch of players who are low on effort, low on confidence and low on technical ability.

 

 

How come that we're sitting so deep? It reminds me of Ranieri's last, bad days. We're trying somehow to contain the pressure for 90 minutes without having the personal for. No midfielder can take the ball forward. Ndidi tries it but is not really good at it and I suppose that's why his pass completion dropped so dramatically.

 

If you don't have technical players maybe it would better to press higher so you reduce the distance to the opponent's goal, densifiyng the midfield would be also an alternative to compensate for the player's quality. I see none of it.

 

The players weren't low on confidence in the first games and still everything went to shit. Manchester United and especially Huddersfield come to my mind. The only one game were I saw something was against a poor Arsenal. The pressing was indeed higher. Don't tell me that the players refuse to apply Shakey's directives or formations, because that would be extremely bad.

[Babylon]

22 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

How come that we're sitting so deep? It reminds me of Ranieri's last, bad days. We're trying somehow to contain the pressure for 90 minutes without having the personal for. No midfielder can take the ball forward. Ndidi tries it but is not really good at it and I suppose that's why his pass completion dropped so dramatically.

 

If you don't have technical players maybe it would better to press higher so you reduce the distance to the opponent's goal, densifiyng the midfield would be also an alternative to compensate for the player's quality. I see none of it.

 

The players weren't low on confidence in the first games and still everything went to shit. Manchester United and especially Huddersfield come to my mind. The only one game were I saw something was against a poor Arsenal. The pressing was indeed higher. Don't tell me that the players refuse to apply Shakey's directives or formations, because that would be extremely bad.

The only time we've pressed is when the players were stung with critisism, we've seen a drop off since then again. I'm worried it's down to attitude and application.

[Merging Cultures]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The only time we've pressed is when the players were stung with critisism, we've seen a drop off since then again. I'm worried it's down to attitude and application.

The orders must come from the manager, and if he is asking them to press, and they are not, then he needs to drop them. In theory, we have a strong bench, so he should be able to do that.

[The Doctor]

3 hours ago, filthyfox said:

It's one point better than a fit team of superstars who had just won the Prem got at Bournemouth last year... I was there IT WAS SHITE! Our best players are either injured or don't give a shit. No manager can change that..... you would have to be an ostrich not to blame the recruitment over the last two years.

So because we didn't play to our strengths and lost last season, it's fine to not play to our strengths this season?

 

Tbf, set the Silva debacle aside, we've signed two good young cbs, a tidy midfielder with a wealth of experience and a striker with a fantastic goals per minute record at this level this summer - pretty tidy recruitment. You could argue that they've not been signed with our system in mind but I don't buy that, I see a coaching set up that can't set us up to play effectively with what we've got 

[foxinsocks]

Just let him go 

[foxinsocks]

50 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

The orders must come from the manager, and if he is asking them to press, and they are not, then he needs to drop them. In theory, we have a strong bench, so he should be able to do that.

He is not asking them to press... he is way tooo cautious.

I wanted him to have the job... i know i was wrong.... i am out of denial 

[Merging Cultures]

1 hour ago, foxinsocks said:

He is not asking them to press... he is way tooo cautious.

I wanted him to have the job... i know i was wrong.... i am out of denial 

I too wanted him to have the job, I assumed that his relationship with the players, deep understanding about their capacity, and having seen what worked under NP and CR, that he'd be able to get them to play effectively. But instead we are seeing the team play like we did when both NP and CR were struggling - not the pressing football that caused other teams to make errors.

 

On paper our squad is better than it has every been. We should be playing much better than we have been. We've been lucky to get the points we have. It can't all be down to the team becoming complacent, they must know that we are performing badly at the moment. 

[Nick]

I want to see an upturn in footballing identity - a commitment to play some kind of a brand of football for 90 mins.

 

If he can't deliver that he can go and time is running out.

[weller54]

6 hours ago, filthyfox said:

It's one point better than a fit team of superstars who had just won the Prem got at Bournemouth last year... I was there IT WAS SHITE! Our best players are either injured or don't give a shit. No manager can change that..... you would have to be an ostrich not to blame the recruitment over the last two years.

Thanks for that.. 

How you settling in at OH Leuven? 

[STUHILL]

Two games I give him. Must at least win 1 and have us performing much better than we have been, and also show us that he is not afraid to change formation and tactics. 

 

Otherwise, I want a a new manager with fresh ideas. We were stuck in the past with playing this certain brand of football, due to the qualities of our squad. 

 

We now have players who are more capable on the ball and we are crying out to set up differently. We need an extra man in midfield and have to try release Mahrez from his defensive duties and allow him to stay further up the pitch. 

 

Two games Shakey! Sort it out or time for change. We are aiming for top 8, not just to survive again.

[Chrysalis]

we had a very tough start, its not so much the results for me but the way we have played.  I also still havent forgiven shakey for those substitutions in the arsenal game.

 

We should try and sign carlo.

[Bobby Hundreds]

He'd fill a mascot suit?

[Lestoh1]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

The only time we've pressed is when the players were stung with critisism, we've seen a drop off since then again. I'm worried it's down to attitude and application.

The players being stung with criticism shows what berks they are.

 

Their "reaction" of working harder as a response to the criticism confirms everyones belief they should work harder.

 

Its not all shakespeares fault theres loads of problems at the club and really we need to move on from this half title half moved on statecwith some new players, better coaches and sort behind the scenes out

[volpeazzurro]

8 hours ago, Babylon said:

It's all very well chucking around what the likes of Wagner might do, he's a good manager. But shall we look at his first 33 games for Huddersfield? Lost 16, Won 10, Drew 7 and he signed virtually a new squad of the players he wanted before going on a rampage.

 

CS has been given 7 games as permanent manager, it's not looking great for him. But what we're seeing is almost exactly the same as we saw last season from these players. As has been alluded to already, perhaps we need to start looking a little deeper than just the manager. Because you could sign Wagner, he loses 5 of his first 7 like he did at Huddersfield and people would be on his backs.

I was really making the point that on paper at least,  the managers I mentioned have not got the talented squad we have yet at this stage seem to have what they've got at their disposal at least looking as if they know what they're doing. 

 

Personally I don't subscribe to the fact  that he's only been here as permanent  manager for 7 games as an excuse because he's been here years. Many of these players have been known to him for a long time and he should by now know their capabilities inside out. Also, after all that time as a coach he should have them well drilled in more than one system, he's had years to do it. Fergie had his favoured way of playing but changed it when it was deemed necessary. 

 

Following the Liverpool result and good European results/performances last year (a big part of which was more down to players coming out like scalded cats from criticism and the glow of the Champions League more than Shakespeare's  influence imo), some very big cracks in the wall started to appear culminating in the Spurs drubbing and last games apparent disinterest. You are right in saying that the players need to be looked at as well but, isn't it also the job of a manager to motivate them?

 

All that money's worth on the bench or just not being used.  There have been injuries but Slimani , Iborra, Musa , Gray, Amarty, Iheanacho , Dragovic, is there nothing there together with what we've got to successfully play a different formation?  Shakespeare in interview said how pleased he was with Iborra in that he was adapting well to our 442 style of play, what! He's adapting Iborra from a system where he shines and is successful and presumably why we bought him, to teach him how to play in an unsuccessful failing system! You really couldn't make it up! Slimani, Iheanacho, Dragovic have they all got to learn this way or be considered useless? 

 

Someone whisper to him gently, the two successful proponents of that Leicester style have left. It's no different in real terms to Sousa wanting to play champagne and oysters passing football with beer and chips players.

 

We need a manager who can implement more than one style.  We need the whole of our current coaching team, particularly Shakespeare out so our players can't go snivelling to some former shoulder to cry on. We need an atmosphere where it's a blank sheet for all past and new players so that those that shine brightest and show motivation in the new manager's ideas get picked to play.

 

I  don't know who that manager would be though, it's certainly not going to be Ancelotti though haha!  

[Corky]

On 10/2/2017 at 03:57, Wookie said:

I find it hard to be angry with him on a personal level (whereas I did with Ranieri last season) as the club are so dysfunctional now but he's clearly not getting the best out of a decent squad and we're regressing if anything 

Pretty much my thoughts.

 

He has been hamstrung by issues not under his control (losing Drinkwater and failing to replace him) but he still has enough players to work with to get a pattern of play together to make us look like a decent team. That has failed so far and we've been fortunate to avoid defeat in the past two away games which could've put us in an even worse position.

[chicagofox]

The Silva fiasco is not a reason to support keeping Shakespeare.  He is clearly not getting the best out of the players he does have.

[Mr Weller]

There is nothing 'clear' about it and putting lots of exclamation marks in posts is just emotional blood letting.

 

I remain of the view that just changing Shakespeare is unlikely to make a long term difference unless we somehow overcome the  deeper post Prem winning hangover first.

[foxinsocks]

21 hours ago, Mr Weller said:

There is nothing 'clear' about it and putting lots of exclamation marks in posts is just emotional blood letting.

 

I remain of the view that just changing Shakespeare is unlikely to make a long term difference unless we somehow overcome the  deeper post Prem winning hangover first.

it would definitely make a long term difference if we hired someone that is better than Shakey

[filthyfox]

On 04/10/2017 at 14:33, weller54 said:

Thanks for that.. 

How you settling in at OH Leuven? 

They call them straussvogel over here... or autruche; depends what part of the country you come from!

[NotTheMarketLeader]

On 04/10/2017 at 12:05, Babylon said:

The only time we've pressed is when the players were stung with critisism, we've seen a drop off since then again. I'm worried it's down to attitude and application.

This is hard to accept as a fan, but  as you say the more we see of it the more the likelihood is that is what is happening.

 

If so it fits with the belief that Ranieri was thrown under the bus by the players, and press slating them was the incentive they needed to turn things around.

 

This theory by definition does mean that Shakes was no good last season either as the upturn was nothing to do with him? ?

[DelBoy73]

The sole reason to keep him on the job would be...... to take the piss.

[WigstonWanderer]

46 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

This is hard to accept as a fan, but  as you say the more we see of it the more the likelihood is that is what is happening.

 

If so it fits with the belief that Ranieri was thrown under the bus by the players, and press slating them was the incentive they needed to turn things around.

 

This theory by definition does mean that Shakes was no good last season either as the upturn was nothing to do with him? ?

This is the conclusion I'm starting to believe 

[Happy Fox]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

This is hard to accept as a fan, but  as you say the more we see of it the more the likelihood is that is what is happening.

 

If so it fits with the belief that Ranieri was thrown under the bus by the players, and press slating them was the incentive they needed to turn things around.

 

This theory by definition does mean that Shakes was no good last season either as the upturn was nothing to do with him? ?

Ranieri said: “I was sacked because of the results. I don’t believe that story, and even if it were true, it’s not my problem, it would be the players’. If they did it, which I don’t believe they did, it’s their problem, because when I had a problem with a manager, I used to go talk to his face.

“At Leicester no one ever came to tell me anything”.

 

http://sportwitness.co.uk/ranieri-opens-leicester-exit-new-job-similarities-two/

[Lestoh1]

2 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

This is hard to accept as a fan, but  as you say the more we see of it the more the likelihood is that is what is happening.

 

If so it fits with the belief that Ranieri was thrown under the bus by the players, and press slating them was the incentive they needed to turn things around.

 

This theory by definition does mean that Shakes was no good last season either as the upturn was nothing to do with him? ?

Ranieri was treated horrifically by the players, the club and sections of the support.

 

The club will only move forward when no players and staff are left from the title win and the club can take a totally new direction

 

It was barmy to promote shakey to full time manager just on his bounce. Rarely if ever works and was in my opinion an easy cop out at board level to mske everyone happy in the short term.

[Lestoh1]

2 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

This is hard to accept as a fan, but  as you say the more we see of it the more the likelihood is that is what is happening.

 

If so it fits with the belief that Ranieri was thrown under the bus by the players, and press slating them was the incentive they needed to turn things around.

 

This theory by definition does mean that Shakes was no good last season either as the upturn was nothing to do with him? ?

You must also see the irony in the players reaction because as i said earlier in the thread, their "reaction" EXACTLY proved the medias point that they werent giving everything they had.

 

The 2nd Ranieri season had started fairly steadily really, considering the extra games and an identical tough start. it was only really after christmas the wheels started falling off when the players showed their total incapability of change. 

 

Ranners wanted to try new systems and the players said no, then when Ranners did try something different no one would buy into what he said to them.