Argentina vs Croatia - Match Thread (21st June, 7pm)

[TeePee]

1 minute ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Theres no one in the central midfield. Just a huge hole  

Which is pretty impressive when you consider that it didn't look like they had anyone up front or at the back either.

[Izzy]

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Ronaldo spunk’s in the face of Messi 

 

which in itself is errm Messi 

[Dan]

Genuinely a hilarious result and game, and in hindsight it makes me wonder why I didn't see it coming. Croatia are better than them in nearly every position, that's no exaggeration.

 

Argentina are absolutely horrendous. Sampaoli's nose-dived. His side in 2014 were one of the best to watch, probably the single best international team to watch in the World, now Argentina probably get the least out of their squad than anyone else in the competition.

 

Croatia the pick of this tournament for me so far. Two polished performances.

[AjcW]

20 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Genuinely a hilarious result and game, and in hindsight it makes me wonder why I didn't see it coming. Croatia are better than them in nearly every position, that's no exaggeration.

 

Argentina are absolutely horrendous. Sampaoli's nose-dived. His side in 2014 were one of the best to watch, probably the single best international team to watch in the World, now Argentina probably get the least out of their squad than anyone else in the competition.

 

Croatia the pick of this tournament for me so far. Two polished performances.

Croatia have had it in them for a while now. I was there in 2014 and the anger and shock after losing to Mexico was massive. They expect a lot from their team and they seem to finally be delivering.

 

I think it’s definitely the year someone surprising wins... unless France fluke their way to the end which certainly isn’t impossible! 

[Bert]

32 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Genuinely a hilarious result and game, and in hindsight it makes me wonder why I didn't see it coming. Croatia are better than them in nearly every position, that's no exaggeration.

 

Argentina are absolutely horrendous. Sampaoli's nose-dived. His side in 2014 were one of the best to watch, probably the single best international team to watch in the World, now Argentina probably get the least out of their squad than anyone else in the competition.

 

Croatia the pick of this tournament for me so far. Two polished performances.

Modric and Rakitic are both sensational. They make the game look so easy and for me they're on a par with Silva & Iniesta and Kroos & Ozil. 

 

No reason why they can't make the semi's at least. 

 

Crazy to think they were 12/5 to win. What a price. 

[Blue ROI]

Croatia have had a habit of faltering when expectations are high.

 

They looked sensational at times tonight but they were well fancied in the 2008 Euros before losing to Turkey a0nd then the early WC exit in 2014.

 

Would be just like them to go out to a side like Denmark in the next round.

Edited 21 June 2018 by Blue ROI

[urban.spaceman]

Was out all night so just caught up on record with no spoilers.

 

****ing hell that was embarrassing.

[Dan]

25 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Croatia have had it in them for a while now. I was there in 2014 and the anger and shock after losing to Mexico was massive. They expect a lot from their team and they seem to finally be delivering.

 

I think it’s definitely the year someone surprising wins... unless France fluke their way to the end which certainly isn’t impossible! 

 

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

Modric and Rakitic are both sensational. They make the game look so easy and for me they're on a par with Silva & Iniesta and Kroos & Ozil. 

 

No reason why they can't make the semi's at least. 

 

Crazy to think they were 12/5 to win. What a price. 

I've thought for a while Croatia's midfield is as good as just about anyones and it's why I often tip them as a dark horse, although I've not had them pulling up any trees this time (and sure enough my dark horse, Peru, are already out). They've got the tools though. Defence isn't amazing individually but it's organised, midfield is superb, Mandzukic is very under-rated and even your likes of Perisic are a real threat. I agree, they could make the semis, maybe even more on the showings so far.

 

Genuinely would rank them as the best team in the competition on what we've seen so far.

[ScouseFox]

didn’t everyone lose their shit about croatia early on at the euros and they got knocked out in the same round as us and northern ireland or something? 

 

they looked wicked tonight but i think any decent team would’ve taken argentina apart. they clearly weren’t interested in the slightest. messi was abysmal. laughable that people think he’s even close to ronaldo’s level at the moment. 

[Dan]

4 hours ago, Callabinho said:

I’m sorry but Messi is not a patch on Ronaldo at this level.... his attitude ****ing sucks, and you can’t blame the players around him... as Portugal are hardly a better side? He spent most of the game looking at the ground, whereas the other week Ronaldo dragged Portugal through the Spain game. He can shove his goals up his arse, his attitude is shit. Ronaldo tips him for me, I just hope he wins the World Cup for Portugal to seal it.

You did watch that game didn't you?

[mancunianfox]

In my opinion Messi is 100% a better footballer than Ronaldo. However, Ronaldo's desire, workrate, leadership and versatility is why I would pick him over Messi for any team other than Barcelona. CR probably couldn't have saved Argentina last night had they switched but no way does he stand for the team giving up like they did after that first goal. He is an overbearing character but for a primadonna he is also a pretty effective leader.

 

International trophies are significant as both's greatness comes from their longevity and how much they have won. Ronaldo is neither the greatest number 9 or the greatest number 7 and Messi is probably not even the best ever number 10 from his own country but on the basis of how great they have been for so long it's impossible to make a distinction between them unless one of them wins a world cup which is looking more and more unlikely.

[The Blur]

13 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Messi’s chance went with those three major finals that were lost ... but he is better than Ronaldo, big part in all three of those tournaments including golden ball winner in 2014

 

I think everyone were quite bemused that Messi won the Golden Ball back in 2014?   There were some more deserving players as far I can remember?   I just had a quick google of Argentina's results in 2014-  Messi scored all of his goals in group stage but the team stumbled through latter rounds and relied on some ET and penalties wins.  

 

 

Edited 22 June 2018 by The Blur

[ScouseFox]

32 minutes ago, The Blur said:

 

I think everyone were quite bemused that Messi won the Golden Ball back in 2014?   There were some more deserving players as far I can remember?   I just had a quick google of Argentina's results in 2014-  Messi scored all of his goals in group stage but the team stumbled through latter rounds and relied on some ET and penalties wins.  

 

 

 

it was pretty unanimously agreed that he wasn’t even argentina’s best player in the tournament let alone the actual best player. 

 

you can make your arguments either way about messi and ronaldo but there’s simply no debate about who is the better player over the last 3 or 4 years. messi’s been going backwards for a while (surprisingly since pep and xavi left...) whilst ronaldo has not necessarily got better, but adapted his game to still be the best player in the world by a distance at an age where most would be looking to move to china or america just to keep their career’s alive. 

[shen]

Does everything have to be bloody boiled down to a Messi v Ronaldo debate? It is getting seriously tedious.

The media are only stoking it further with constant comparisons and pundit talk.

Can't we just appreciate that both are amazing players who have likely pushed eachother to be as good as they can be?

[MC Prussian]

13 hours ago, NewEnglandFox said:

no. they never would have made it through South American qualifiers without them. 

That graphic is just proving that you're using the stats in your own favour.

No one can tell whether Argentina would've had a worse spell without Messi for the entire duration of the CONMEBOL qualifiers than with him.

 

Fact is, apart from 2014 where they got close, Messi has a tendency of failing at World Cup level. 2006 (okay, his debut, so I'll cut him some slack), 2010 and now in 2018.

Not a great record.

 

You can tell how dangerous it is to shape a team around one player. And the line-up against Croatia was bonkers. Playing a back three, not playing Higuain from the start, leaving Dybala on the bench, leaving Icardi at home.... Sampaoli is as much to blame as is the Argentine football association, caught in corruption and dodgy dealings.

[ScouseFox]

1 minute ago, shen said:

Does everything have to be bloody boiled down to a Messi v Ronaldo debate? It is getting seriously tedious.

The media are only stoking it further with constant comparisons and pundit talk.

Can't we just appreciate that both are amazing players who have likely pushed eachother to be as good as they can be?

yeah but ronaldo’s pushed messi off a cliff now 

[shen]

1 minute ago, ScouseFox said:

yeah but ronaldo’s pushed messi off a cliff now 

I don't care who's better or worse at this moment! Ronaldo started off by scoring what...2 goals or something in the first half the season in La Liga?

They're both STILL phenomenal players in their own right.

[TheSomersetFox]

Messi/Aguero/Higuain had no chance last tonight. It didn't matter how good they were when he defence/midfield/system was as pathetic as it was. That was easily up there as one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a team at this level. Croatia were good but Argentina were just seriously shite.

 

Ronaldo has clearly had the better of it over the last 3/4 years too, but Messi is still the greatest player I've ever seen and nothing will change that now. Fair play to Ronny mind, deserves every one of his Ballon D'ors and Champions League medals.

 

Croatia are the best I've seen at this World Cup too, followed by Spain and tbf, us. Hopefully we turn up again this Sunday.

[The Doctor]

29 minutes ago, Goober said:

Croatia are the best I've seen at this World Cup too, followed by Spain and tbf, us. Hopefully we turn up again this Sunday.

Didn't realise you're Mexican, but you should really know that game is Saturday. 

[Finnegan]

Croatia looked absolutely garbage in the first game until Brozovic came on tbh. 

 

Bit of revisionism going on here tbf. Even in the first half against Argentina they were a bit average. 

 

Against Nigeria they tried to force a 424 that left their central midfield outnumbered and isolated, it was ridiculous. That was possibly one of the most disappointing and worst games of the tournament. 

 

I like Croatia, good team, lovely country, nice people by and large. Hope they do well. But let's not all spuff our loads because they dispatched an abject Argentina that looked like they were practically protesting in the second half they were so bad. 

 

Croatia still lack a striker and look dodgy af at the back. 

 

I'd expect Spain to grind out a 1-0 against them in the quarters tbf. Might be a different story if Portugal or Uruguay meet them there though. 

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, The Blur said:

 

I think everyone were quite bemused that Messi won the Golden Ball back in 2014?   There were some more deserving players as far I can remember? 

 

It was James Rodriguez's in all but name. 

 

I'm with Finnigan to a point. Croatia were woeful for 45 minutes in defence and it could have been an error the other week around which gave Argentina the lead. 

[PAULCFC]

Remember sitting watching the telly in disbelief when Rodriguez didn't win it!

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

It was James Rodriguez's in all but name. 

 

I'm with Finnigan to a point. Croatia were woeful for 45 minutes in defence and it could have been an error the other week around which gave Argentina the lead. 

 

Didn't Rodriguez win the young player of the tourney and they didn't fancy giving / couldn't give him both? Then there was a lot of talk that Messi's affiliation with Adidas won him the POTT...

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Bit of aggro in the stands last night, but I doubt you'll hear about it as it's not England fans