Maddison named in England squad

[Beechey]

23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hasn’t Mount scored more goals in less games than Barnes? Both are very good and Mount is without doubt going to break through in the PL next season. 

Nope, Barnes has 4 goals and 2 assists in 11 league games and Mount has 3 goals and 1 assist in 11 league games. Mount has actually played more minutes as well.

[The_Rorab]

What IS a capable and balanced squad of 23 English players that have at least a season of playing well very recently in the Premier League and that would involve players that would be useful for the future going forward? I just don't think that's tenable whatsoever, so as much as the soundbite of the players being picked as having not performed enough yet, I don't think it's a completely valid criticism.

Edited 5 October 2018 by The_Rorab

[ozleicester]

9 hours ago, ThaiFox said:

 

So, you think Danny Wellbeck, mostly playing in Arsenal's reserves deserves to be in the England team, or squad? Or Mason Mount and Jadon Sancho neither who have played a Premier League match?

 

Even Maddison has only played SEVEN Premier League matches, and most of those he hasn't even completed. He might have had a brilliant 7 matches, but other teams will work him out as the season progresses, and I would have liked him to have played a lot more top level matches to show he can develop when teams do work him out. At least Chilwell has played around 50 PL matches, and shown he has a lot of improvement as well as potential, and so deserved his call up.

 

But to me, it really looks like if you are qualified to play for England, and you put in half a dozen decent match performances, in whatever league, against whatever teams, you get selected. I agree with a previous poster that you should have at least played around a season in a top league, and shown some consistency.

 

I agree bedding young players in early is good. If a player is 20 and has the class and potential, by all means call them up, but only after they have shown consistency, and had some real top league experience.

 

But I stand by the fact it is seems so easy getting an England call up nowadays, but perhaps that is because there is such a small pool of decent players, or others just haven't developed enough to hold down a regular place. (sorry Oz, I really think you're just a little old, unless Mike Bassett gets the job, then you could warm up with Benson & Hedges!)

 

 

 

[ThaiFox]

14 hours ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Diabate is hardly an equal example is he. He played well in a win against a league one side and every game after that showed flashes of potential but clearly wasn’t up to speed. 

 

Maddison on the other hand for example has scored 3 and assisted 2 so far? Is clearly better at this level and deserves a call up. Who would ou have instead? 

 

14 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

What do you suggest then? There’s simply not enough depth of English players playing 50-100 PL games at an early age. We either pick experienced players that probably won’t improve or we take a chance on these younger players. Sanchoo is playing Bundesliga and CL football, it’s every bit as good as the Premier League. People moan that it’s too easy to get an England cap these days but then also call for new faces and younger players. 

I have no answers or suggestions guys. It is just my opinion that players get picked far too early these days and before they have really proved themselves. I am not the only one who thinks that either. But I respect both your opinions that you think otherwise.

 

I am all for youth and a great supporter of what Puel is doing here. But I really think players with no, or less than 25-30 top league games, are not mentally ready for international football. This is one of the big faults of the PL, that the so called big clubs (with the exception of Spuds) will not risk bringing through and bedding in young players.

 

The Diabate point was just to show half a dozen brilliant performances does not mean you have a great player.  He was soon found out, as countless others have been, who were seen as world beaters, then drifted into oblivion. That has nothing to do with age, the point was about being found out and consistency and this only comes with playing a lot of top level games.

 

I also agree England's senior players have been mostly abysmal, but I don't think it's a youth thing. I think it's years of utterly bad management from the top of the FA wanting 'yes men'. Most of England's senior players are much better in their own club set ups, but when they step on the pitch for England they seem to go into their shell. But that seems to apply to players of all ages once they have played for England. Look at how dreadful Alli has become.

 

Maddison has been brilliant for us, I am really pleased when Leicester City players are chosen, and we are in golden times for having Vardy, Drinkwater, Maguire, Chilwell, Gray and now Maddison selected in recent years. As I said in an earlier post, this bodes very well for our own future, as good young players will be attracted to sign and stay with us, knowing not only they will get decent game time, but will not be internationally  ignored by playing for Leicester City.

 

 

 

[ThaiFox]

6 hours ago, ozleicester said:

 

I am 62, and I am still waiting for my call up.......although that might be that I was shite at football! Still that hasn't stopped a whole host of players being picked in the past!

 

 

[jayfox26]

18 hours ago, ThaiFox said:

 

So, you think Danny Wellbeck, mostly playing in Arsenal's reserves deserves to be in the England team, or squad? Or Mason Mount and Jadon Sancho neither who have played a Premier League match?

 

Even Maddison has only played SEVEN Premier League matches, and most of those he hasn't even completed. He might have had a brilliant 7 matches, but other teams will work him out as the season progresses, and I would have liked him to have played a lot more top level matches to show he can develop when teams do work him out. At least Chilwell has played around 50 PL matches, and shown he has a lot of improvement as well as potential, and so deserved his call up.

 

But to me, it really looks like if you are qualified to play for England, and you put in half a dozen decent match performances, in whatever league, against whatever teams, you get selected. I agree with a previous poster that you should have at least played around a season in a top league, and shown some consistency.

 

I agree bedding young players in early is good. If a player is 20 and has the class and potential, by all means call them up, but only after they have shown consistency, and had some real top league experience.

 

But I stand by the fact it is seems so easy getting an England call up nowadays, but perhaps that is because there is such a small pool of decent players, or others just haven't developed enough to hold down a regular place. (sorry Oz, I really think you're just a little old, unless Mike Bassett gets the job, then you could warm up with Benson & Hedges!)

 

 

Just out of interest, which players haven't made the squad that you feel should? Just because a player has played more than a season in the prem doesn't mean they are good. Look at Eric Dier, he has played many games in the prem and always gets selected but he is absolute garbage! There could be a shout for the likes of Callum Wilson and possibly Deeney instead of Welbeck but other than that there aren't many players Southagate can choose that play consistently well at prem level. And Sancho is playing every week in one of the best teams in one of the best leagues in Europe. I agree with what Southgate is doing and with a lot of the young players, it's not just about what they do at club level, they have been selected as they have been consistently the best players for England u21s. Unfortunately we don't have many options in certain positions like centre mid, hence why he has called up the likes of Mount and Maddison. 

[Harry96]

Well deserved 

[Guest]

much ado about nothing.

 

These games are nothing games. We all know that when we get to a real game it'll be England Hotspurs bottling it again.

[ThaiFox]

7 hours ago, jayfox26 said:

Just out of interest, which players haven't made the squad that you feel should? Just because a player has played more than a season in the prem doesn't mean they are good. Look at Eric Dier, he has played many games in the prem and always gets selected but he is absolute garbage! There could be a shout for the likes of Callum Wilson and possibly Deeney instead of Welbeck but other than that there aren't many players Southagate can choose that play consistently well at prem level. And Sancho is playing every week in one of the best teams in one of the best leagues in Europe. I agree with what Southgate is doing and with a lot of the young players, it's not just about what they do at club level, they have been selected as they have been consistently the best players for England u21s. Unfortunately we don't have many options in certain positions like centre mid, hence why he has called up the likes of Mount and Maddison. 

Not sure who I'd pick, because whoever plays, at whatever age, seems to turn into a shadow of their club form. I agree about Dier, and Alli has gone to pot too. Rashford blows hot and cold, as does Lingard, and even Kane's international form has dipped. As I previously said, I think the top level of the FA have done our international team a lot of harm by going with 'yes men' managers who are not up to the job. I'm sure that's why Vardy called it a day. He could see himself going downhill under Southgate.

 

Maybe a guy like Deeney might be a good option, just because he is a constant menace. Certainly worth a shot over Welbeck.

 

Your point about Sancho is interesting, but please look at his appearances.....yes, he's played 7 games for Dortmund, but only one full match, and 3 of those have been under 20 minutes. A bit like our own Maddison, who today against Everton was man marked and mostly out of the game and couldn't work out a different strategy. They need a lot more top level playing time to really know what to do in difficult games.

 

 

[RumbleFox]

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/09/james-maddison-england-leicester-hope-i-never-go-back-to-under-21s

 

James Maddison felt he belonged in the Premier League while warming up for his Leicester debut at Old Trafford. The sensation has yet to strike on the England stage. “I’ve only been in the door five minutes,” the 21-year-old explains, not unreasonably. It is long enough to realise there can be no going back.

“We have been given this opportunity to show what we are about in the seniors; me, Mason [Mount] and Jadon [Sancho],” says Maddison, the eldest of the three new faces in Gareth Southgate’s squad for Croatia and Spain. “If it was up to me I’d never go back to the under-21s because this is where every young boy dreams of being. Aidy [Boothroyd, the under-21s manager] is saying: ‘Give Gareth a choice where he doesn’t put you back down and wants you here constantly in the squad’, and that is what we are all aiming to achieve.”

 

For Leicester’s £25m summer signing from Norwich there is the opportunity to take residence in Southgate’s plans. Eight Premier League appearances have brought three goals and a first England call-up for the attacking midfielder but it is the promise he offers in the No 10 role that appeals at international level. It was a position in which England were lacking at the World Cup, certainly when Deli Alli was absent, and where Maddison believes his future lies.

 

The Coventry-born midfielder, who admits taking elements of David Silva’s and Philippe Coutinho’s game into his own, says: “The No 10 position is my favourite role. I am a player who likes to play in between the lines and try to break that midfield line whether it’s when I receive a pass or can go and show everyone what I am about.

 

“I was always smaller than the rest coming up at Coventry and I developed physically more in the later stages. In the academies people develop differently and going into that No 10 role helped me because central midfield was always packed with big, strong boys. The No 10 helped take that edge out of it and, when I caught up physically, I had grown to love that role and made it my own at Coventry, so I went from there.”

 

Maddison went from his boyhood club to Norwich in January 2016 but it was a loan spell at Aberdeen later that year that he credits as invaluable in his development. A spectacular last-minute winner against Rangers in only his fourth appearance certainly helped with the transition.

“I had already played in League One at Coventry and this gave me a different challenge. Playing against the likes of Celtic and Rangers was a different prospect altogether, big crowds which you do not necessarily get at League One level. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at Aberdeen. I still speak to the manager Derek McInnes now. It was a big learning curve for me. I mean, I was an 18-year-old lad playing in a Scottish League Cup final against Celtic at Hampden in front of 60,000. That’s an experience I will never forget and I wouldn’t have got by staying in England in the lower leagues.

“All the moves I’ve made have come after I sat down with my family and my agent and thought what was the best move. I’ve never rushed into something, never gone anywhere where I wasn’t sure 100%. I’ve always trusted my decision, gone with my gut feeling and that was a good move for me and I look back with positive thoughts.”

 

Maddison’s parents, Una and Gary, were the first people he called after receiving confirmation from the Football Association that he was in Southgate’s squad for the Nations League double-header. “Super-proud of me,” he says. “They are texting asking me what certain people are like.”

Their son is, by his own admission, supremely confident, although he does not come across as arrogant. Comfortable in his surroundings, for England and Leicester, would be one way of putting it.

 

“I always had the confidence,” Maddison says. “I went into pre-season with the mindset of: ‘Be fearless, go and show everyone what you can do.’ There was a moment in the warm-up at Old Trafford when the crowd was filling up and it just hit me that this was the Premier League. You see all these TV cameras around the pitch, which you don’t get at Championship level, and I thought: ‘I’ve worked hard to be here. I deserve to be here. I belong here.’ I did well on the day and we put in a good performance and maybe could have got more out of the game.

 

“There is no bigger stage than Old Trafford on the opening day of the season. That was a dream I will never forget. Being called up by England is something I always dreamed of as a young boy as well; I’m not going to hide that. I am honoured and truly grateful to be here.”

[filbertway]

Good job Madders is well liked. Gray would be getting pelters for an interview with that headline.

[RumbleFox]

2 hours ago, Gerbold said:

I get my Grauniad a day late - my neighbour buys it and passes it on to me - first thing next morning. I was just checking if the link had been posted - I think you must have been the initiator. Thanks

Getting a second hand Guardian must literally be the most lefty thing i have ever heard.  I pay for mine like the capitalist fat cat.  Kudos to you.  X

[fuchsntf]

On 06/10/2018 at 02:06, ozleicester said:

 

I believd,it's fair to say,other Internatinal sides have also,bled their unknown youngsters in the past..

Now..with this new Int.league, we will be seeing more youngsters being tried,around Europe...IMO rightly so....

[turtmcfly]

3 hours ago, Gerbold said:

I get my Grauniad a day late - my neighbour buys it and passes it on to me - first thing next morning. I was just checking if the link had been posted - I think you must have been the initiator. Thanks

 

[Captain...]

On 06/10/2018 at 17:53, ThaiFox said:

Not sure who I'd pick, because whoever plays, at whatever age, seems to turn into a shadow of their club form. I agree about Dier, and Alli has gone to pot too. Rashford blows hot and cold, as does Lingard, and even Kane's international form has dipped. As I previously said, I think the top level of the FA have done our international team a lot of harm by going with 'yes men' managers who are not up to the job. I'm sure that's why Vardy called it a day. He could see himself going downhill under Southgate.

 

Maybe a guy like Deeney might be a good option, just because he is a constant menace. Certainly worth a shot over Welbeck.

 

Your point about Sancho is interesting, but please look at his appearances.....yes, he's played 7 games for Dortmund, but only one full match, and 3 of those have been under 20 minutes. A bit like our own Maddison, who today against Everton was man marked and mostly out of the game and couldn't work out a different strategy. They need a lot more top level playing time to really know what to do in difficult games.

 

 

There are quite a few out there that arguably deserve a call up more than Maddison. There are a bunch of English lads at Bournemouth with quite a lot of Premier League experience who don’t get a look in Daniels, Smith, Cook, Wilson to name a few. I feel they are seen as unfashionable as they haven’t progressed through the youth set ups and play for Bournemouth. There are quite a few English players around it and does seem odd who gets the nod and who doesn’t. Will Hughes has played a lot more for Watford than Chalobah the last 2 seasons, yet Chalobah is in the England squad Hughes isn’t. I still don’t feel like we pick the best players in the league and we pick players on reputation and the club they play for.

[Leeds Fox]

6 hours ago, Captain... said:

There are quite a few out there that arguably deserve a call up more than Maddison. There are a bunch of English lads at Bournemouth with quite a lot of Premier League experience who don’t get a look in Daniels, Smith, Cook, Wilson to name a few. I feel they are seen as unfashionable as they haven’t progressed through the youth set ups and play for Bournemouth. There are quite a few English players around it and does seem odd who gets the nod and who doesn’t. Will Hughes has played a lot more for Watford than Chalobah the last 2 seasons, yet Chalobah is in the England squad Hughes isn’t. I still don’t feel like we pick the best players in the league and we pick players on reputation and the club they play for.

 

Lewis Cook graduated through the youth set-up and has even played for the Senior Team. He’s steady but I can’t see him bringing much to the squad that we don’t already have. He’s still only 21 himself but I don’t think he has the potential that Maddison does. 

 

Adam Smith has been involved with the Unders at different ages but never made it to the full squad. Again, is he really good enough or does he have the potential to improve the squad? 

 

Charlie Daniels is 30-odd. What’s the point bringing him into the squad?

 

Chalobah and Hughes aren’t similar players whatsoever, so they’re probably chosen based on their style of play. I’d say Hughes and Maddison are more comparable (even though Hughes plays slightly deeper), they’re both players who you can only afford one of in a game. For England Hughes would have to play the same role as Maddison would. He’s not an international level central midfielder and doesn’t have the potential to be one for England. Maddison could make a good case as a creative attacking midfielder/No10.

 

Disclaimer - The final paragraph is my own opinion and I could be completely fuching wrong. 

[Captain...]

43 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

Lewis Cook graduated through the youth set-up and has even played for the Senior Team. He’s steady but I can’t see him bringing much to the squad that we don’t already have. He’s still only 21 himself but I don’t think he has the potential that Maddison does. 

 

Adam Smith has been involved with the Unders at different ages but never made it to the full squad. Again, is he really good enough or does he have the potential to improve the squad? 

 

Charlie Daniels is 30-odd. What’s the point bringing him into the squad?

 

Chalobah and Hughes aren’t similar players whatsoever, so they’re probably chosen based on their style of play. I’d say Hughes and Maddison are more comparable (even though Hughes plays slightly deeper), they’re both players who you can only afford one of in a game. For England Hughes would have to play the same role as Maddison would. He’s not an international level central midfielder and doesn’t have the potential to be one for England. Maddison could make a good case as a creative attacking midfielder/No10.

 

Disclaimer - The final paragraph is my own opinion and I could be completely fuching wrong. 

I don’t disagree with anything you have said, although you didn’t mention Callum Wilson who surely deserves a spot ahead of Welbeck based on form and not reputation.

 

It just feels a little like it is now fashionable to be a Leicester player with Gray, Chilwell and Maddison following Vardy and Maguire. There are still Leicester fans who wouldn’t put a Gray and Chilwell in our starting 11, Maddison has been great in 7 games but there are English players out there who have been great for 3 seasons and get overlooked. I’m not saying it’s not deserved but it does feel like they have been fast tracked into the squad.

[brucey]

7 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I don’t disagree with anything you have said, although you didn’t mention Callum Wilson who surely deserves a spot ahead of Welbeck based on form and not reputation.

 

It just feels a little like it is now fashionable to be a Leicester player with Gray, Chilwell and Maddison following Vardy and Maguire. There are still Leicester fans who wouldn’t put a Gray and Chilwell in our starting 11, Maddison has been great in 7 games but there are English players out there who have been great for 3 seasons and get overlooked. I’m not saying it’s not deserved but it does feel like they have been fast tracked into the squad.

Chilwell was entirely understandable given all the other left backs were lost to injuries.

Maddison was just about plausible given the 10 role he plays and his current form.

Gray I really didn't understand at all.

[Leeds Fox]

22 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I don’t disagree with anything you have said, although you didn’t mention Callum Wilson who surely deserves a spot ahead of Welbeck based on form and not reputation.

 

It just feels a little like it is now fashionable to be a Leicester player with Gray, Chilwell and Maddison following Vardy and Maguire. There are still Leicester fans who wouldn’t put a Gray and Chilwell in our starting 11, Maddison has been great in 7 games but there are English players out there who have been great for 3 seasons and get overlooked. I’m not saying it’s not deserved but it does feel like they have been fast tracked into the squad.

 

I wasn’t trying to discredit what you were saying, I hope it didn’t come across that way. All of the players (with the exception of Daniels) have a shout for being in the friendly squads, but I can see why they haven’t been picked.

 

Wilson definitely deserves a call up over Welbeck, but it seems like a mentality of ‘once you’re part of the setup, you’re there to stay’. Which is completely wrong. 

 

I agree you’re point completely about the club you play for has an effect on selection. It happened with Spurs players a few years ago. Some have proved they’re good enough to be automatic picks (Kane), some fail to replicate their club form for the country (Alli) but are still dead certs for selection and some are bang average/overrated (Dier), again... always in the squad. 

 

It seems like it’s our turn to have players picked. It’s a good way to integrate young lads into the squad, they feel comfortable and it can also build a good togetherness in the squad, having a few tight-knit groups. 

 

However it’s clearly unfair on those that don’t get the chance when they deserve it. I don’t think Southgate has blindly picked our players over others, but if it’s close between say Maddison and Hughes (just for example), it seems someone like Maddison for us will get the nod over someone from another less represented/unfashionable club. 

 

Let’s not forget Leicester are trying to play a possession based system, which is what Southgate’s going for too, so that could be a factor. 

 

Edit - I’ve just seen that Gray is in the squad... surely we can do better than that.

Edited 11 October 2018 by Leeds Fox

[Bert]

These players are going to be key for us in years to come. Keep them involved with the seniors. If you’re good enough you’re old enough. They’ll only improve by knocking around with the better players too. You look at the teams that have had success, a lot of their players were all involved at a young age. 

[ScouseFox]

6 hours ago, brucey said:

Chilwell was entirely understandable given all the other left backs were lost to injuries.

Maddison was just about plausible given the 10 role he plays and his current form.

Gray I really didn't understand at all.

pretty sure gray was because we wanted to promote players from the U21s seen as it was half way through an international break, and gray is quite regularly their best player and has captained them in the past so they obviously have a lot of time for him. 

 

im pretty sure most players go off on holiday etc in international breaks, so calling someone like deeney up and saying do you want to come and do two days of training and almost definitely not play would’ve been responded to with nah pal i’m in ibiza leave it out. 

 

id assume it’ll take a very good effort from gray to get another call up. 

[Leeds Fox]

6 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

pretty sure gray was because we wanted to promote players from the U21s seen as it was half way through an international break, and gray is quite regularly their best player and has captained them in the past so they obviously have a lot of time for him. 

 

im pretty sure most players go off on holiday etc in international breaks, so calling someone like deeney up and saying do you want to come and do two days of training and almost definitely not play would’ve been responded to with nah pal i’m in ibiza leave it out. 

 

id assume it’ll take a very good effort from gray to get another call up. 

 

Is he not in the current squad?

[The Doctor]

10 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

Is he not in the current squad?

Given he's out until end of the month at the earliest with that injury he got at Wolves, no.

[Leeds Fox]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

Given he's out until end of the month at the earliest with that injury he got at Wolves, no.

 

I looked at a squad list last night, must have been for the last game. 

[Ric Flair]

Haha it seems typical that just as England call up a proper number 10 in Maddison they are proposing to ditch their 3-3-2-2 formation to go 4-3-3 which doesn't suit a player like Maddison at all. I was also looking forward to seeing Chilwell operate as a proper wing back rather than a full back. Sancho may well prosper in a 4-3-3 though, he could be the missing link for England as we've been pitiful going forward for ages.