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urban.spaceman

Chilwell to Manchester City

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48 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

F*** me I trawled through three pages just to find out the source was the Sun? You guys know that gullible has been spelled out on your ceiling?

No it hasn't?

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The thing is, Chilwell is still improving. He's considerably better this season than last season, both defending and stamina wise. And that's credit to him spending his summer holiday training. I expect he'll spend this summer working on his crossing and finishing.

 

Imagine we sold Chilwell, and next season he's actually learned to cross and finish, becoming the all rounded best LB in the league. How many threads would be started here about "the one that got away"?

 

Compare that with Gray (and Maguire to a lesser extent) who haven't really gotten any better or worse from last season. We know their current level of contribution to the team is unlikely to change and can price them accordingly.

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1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

You don't get to be serious about breaking in to the top four without selling your best players, unless you've got substantial investment from your owners. 

 

Even Liverpool had to sell Coutinho to keep financing the squad, Tottenham built a lot on selling Bale, the money has to come from somewhere. 

 

The irony of Atleti coming for Chilwell is that they're the masters of this. They went from Liga Segunda to winning La Liga and got to the CL final by constantly selling their best players for huge profit and reinvesting intelligently. 

 

Torres made way for Aguero who made way for Falcao who made way for Griezmann. 

 

The trick is always being able to replenish more intelligently than you lose. If we keep finding diamonds in the rough, selling them to the top clubs for an absurd mark up then going back and finding more then EVENTUALLY we can be one of the big boys. 

 

But we won't get there ourselves just because we have ambition. You have to actual work and build. Slowly. Over a decade or more. 

Where this argument falls down is that Athletico could offer champions league or Europa League and even a crack at titles so they could attract aguero etc and keep replenishing.

 

It's highly unlikely that we could keep attracting and building like you suggest. Spurs can, Liverpool can, arsenal can. We're not at that level. 

 

We sell Mahrez and get ghezzal, sell kante and get Mendy, sell Drinkwater and get Silva.  

 

It's naive to think we can emulate and compete with clubs which can guarantee Europe every season.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Where this argument falls down is that Athletico could offer champions league or Europa League and even a crack at titles so they could attract aguero etc and keep replenishing.

 

It's highly unlikely that we could keep attracting and building like you suggest. Spurs can, Liverpool can, arsenal can. We're not at that level. 

 

We sell Mahrez and get ghezzal, sell kante and get Mendy, sell Drinkwater and get Silva.  

 

It's naive to think we can emulate and compete with clubs which can guarantee Europe every season.

 

 

 

You just contradicted yourself to be fair. We signed Mahrez, Drinkwater and Kante without being in European competition. 

 

You're half right though. We absolutely will fail at this policy if our replacement of post players keeps being so hilariously shit and one dimensional. 

 

"We lost a small, black, French defensive midfielder. Who should we replace him with?"

 

"Well, we've heard of this kid called Mendy, he's a small, black, French defensive midfielder. That'll do right?" 

 

<some time later>

 

"So, we just lost our French born, Algerian, left footed right winger... "

 

"Okay, hold up, let me check the Algeria squad on Wikipedia." 

 

It's not (only) European football that makes Dortmund, Atleti, RBL and Monaco the masters of recruitment, its good scouting. 

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2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You just contradicted yourself to be fair. We signed Mahrez, Drinkwater and Kante without being in European competition. 

 

You're half right though. We absolutely will fail at this policy if our replacement of post players keeps being so hilariously shit and one dimensional. 

 

"We lost a small, black, French defensive midfielder. Who should we replace him with?"

 

"Well, we've heard of this kid called Mendy, he's a small, black, French defensive midfielder. That'll do right?" 

 

<some time later>

 

"So, we just lost our French born, Algerian, left footed right winger... "

 

"Okay, hold up, let me check the Algeria squad on Wikipedia." 

 

It's not (only) European football that makes Dortmund, Atleti, RBL and Monaco the masters of recruitment, its good scouting. 

Slightly (But not totally) tongue in cheek I fancy.

You have selectively omitted Ricardo, Maddison from our shocking scouting.

Perhaps it is the case that giving managers too much say in recruitment is problematic 

Wasn't it during Claudio/Puel term that we got  Mendy, Ghezzal, Diabate based on their previous experience? But for every Ghezzal, hopefully there is a Ricardo too!

However, it is hard to disagree that in the past, replacing obvious critical personnel has been somewhat woeful whatever the origin of the signing.

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2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Slightly (But not totally) tongue in cheek I fancy.

You have selectively omitted Ricardo, Maddison from our shocking scouting.

Perhaps it is the case that giving managers too much say in recruitment is problematic 

Wasn't it during Claudio/Puel term that we got  Mendy, Ghezzal, Diabate based on their previous experience? But for every Ghezzal, hopefully there is a Ricardo too!

However, it is hard to disagree that in the past, replacing obvious critical personnel has been somewhat woeful whatever the origin of the signing.

 

I would describe our recruitment as inconsistent. We're brilliant one minute and laughable the next. 

 

You don't get much more proof of that than Ricardo, Maddison, Ghezzal and Ward all in the same window. 

 

If we want to be a top four or even top six club without being bank rolled, we will have to get much better and much more consistent. 

Edited by Finnegan
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4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I would describe our recruitment as inconsistent. We're brilliant one minute and laughable the next. 

 

You don't get much more proof of that than Ricardo, Maddison, Ghezzal and Ward all in the same window. 

 

If we want to be a top four or even top six club without being bank rolled, we will have to get much better and much more consistent. 

Don`t disagree, just not sure how possible that is. Even the "big 6" make poor signings on occassion, they can just afford to spread their nets further and live with the crap cos they have financial muscle/reputation to buy either high quality or more in terms of numbers. :dunno:

 

I worry that a manager coming in and highlighting signings bypasses scouting.

 

But all good now because Lee is here now right? RIGHT????

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7 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Don`t disagree, just not sure how possible that is. Even the "big 6" make poor signings on occassion, they can just afford to spread their nets further and live with the crap cos they have financial muscle/reputation to buy either high quality or more in terms of numbers. :dunno:

 

I worry that a manager coming in and highlighting signings bypasses scouting.

 

But all good now because Lee is here now right? RIGHT????

 

I think recruitment amongst the current top six has gotten hilariously bad in all honesty over the last five or so years. 

 

Manchester United are probably the most mind bendingly bad. I think it was complacency, they thought they'd always just be able to strong arm clubs out of the market but now everyone costs a fortune and other Premier League clubs have the money to say no and hold out for more. 

 

They've completely neglected the idea of really having a credible recruitment network. 

 

Chelsea are strange because they've sort of done half a job. They have scores of talented youngsters on their books but all they're looking to do is sell them for profit, its a genius way of circumnavigating FFP (or it was until they got caught diddling) - have 40 odd kids that cost you two mil each, loan them out for fees or just their wages, then sell them all for five to ten mil a pop and make enormous profit combined. 

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4 hours ago, FIF said:

Well only 2 seasons ago there were so many Chilwell haters on this FT forum - and now he has a price of 71m which we may turn down. Forgive me when I disparage your views on players. 

 

I remember being mocked by a few posters when I said a couple of years a go he could be as good as he wants to be and has the potential to play for Real Madrid.  :cool:

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4 hours ago, FIF said:

Well only 2 seasons ago there were so many Chilwell haters on this FT forum - and now he has a price of 71m which we may turn down. Forgive me when I disparage your views on players. 

 

Two seasons ago?  lol  Try two months.  He wasn't wildly popular on here after Burnley IIRC.

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38 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think recruitment amongst the current top six has gotten hilariously bad in all honesty over the last five or so years. 

 

Manchester United are probably the most mind bendingly bad. I think it was complacency, they thought they'd always just be able to strong arm clubs out of the market but now everyone costs a fortune and other Premier League clubs have the money to say no and hold out for more. 

 

They've completely neglected the idea of really having a credible recruitment network. 

 

Chelsea are strange because they've sort of done half a job. They have scores of talented youngsters on their books but all they're looking to do is sell them for profit, its a genius way of circumnavigating FFP (or it was until they got caught diddling) - have 40 odd kids that cost you two mil each, loan them out for fees or just their wages, then sell them all for five to ten mil a pop and make enormous profit combined. 

 

If you have faith in your recruitment team and invest in it to be as good as possible then constantly dipping in and out of the transfer market is a good thing.

 

I'm a great believer for a club like ours that selling players at peak value is a good thing. We're an attractive proposition to any player in the world outside a few hundred, if you scout well you keep picking up those bargains, selling them for a big profit down the line and evolve. 

 

That's why I was baffled that we spent £25 on Ghezzal and Ward last season. Two players in their mid 20's who had been at top clubs and failed to make an impact. I can forgive signings like Iheanacho, Kaputska and Diabate but big money on mid 20's mediocrity is a criminal waste. 

Edited by Gerard
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4 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Where this argument falls down is that Athletico could offer champions league or Europa League and even a crack at titles so they could attract aguero etc and keep replenishing.

 

It's highly unlikely that we could keep attracting and building like you suggest. Spurs can, Liverpool can, arsenal can. We're not at that level. 

 

We sell Mahrez and get ghezzal, sell kante and get Mendy, sell Drinkwater and get Silva.  

 

It's naive to think we can emulate and compete with clubs which can guarantee Europe every season.

 

 

We sell Mahrez and get Maddison, Sell Kante and get N'didi, sell Drinkwater and get Tielemans. And still have money to buy another half dozen players.

 

Think we've upgraded.

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40 minutes ago, FIF said:

We sell Mahrez and get Maddison, Sell Kante and get N'didi, sell Drinkwater and get Tielemans. And still have money to buy another half dozen players.

 

Think we've upgraded.

Exactly this if Greb from wherever thinks we haven’t improved generally then he is an ostrich k jockey ?

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51 minutes ago, FIF said:

We sell Mahrez and get Maddison, Sell Kante and get N'didi, sell Drinkwater and get Tielemans. And still have money to buy another half dozen players.

 

Think we've upgraded.

so we sold kante for 32m and spent pretty well that amount on mendy and ndidi to replace

 

we sold riyad for 60m and will never replace

 

we sold drinky for 35 m and didn't replace him either (spaffed 25m on silva)

 

i cant see how this works …………… 

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5 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

so we sold kante for 32m and spent pretty well that amount on mendy and ndidi to replace

 

we sold riyad for 60m and will never replace

 

we sold drinky for 35 m and didn't replace him either (spaffed 25m on silva)

 

i cant see how this works …………… 

Ricardo and maddison with money left to spare?????

 

Drinkwater was injured and has played like 5 games since his move getting Silva enabled the loan to Tielemans.

 

If you cant see how that works and we are better off you obviously are just looking to live in the past and not see the potential our side has moving forward 

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1 hour ago, FIF said:

We sell Mahrez and get Maddison, Sell Kante and get N'didi, sell Drinkwater and get Tielemans. And still have money to buy another half dozen players.

 

Think we've upgraded.

Yes but so have our competitors and we haven't got Tielemans (yet).

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1 minute ago, Fox85 said:

Ricardo and maddison with money left to spare?????

 

Drinkwater was injured and has played like 5 games since his move getting Silva enabled the loan to Tielemans.

 

If you cant see how that works and we are better off you obviously are just looking to live in the past and not see the potential our side has moving forward 

our side has huge potential going forward if we keep the v good players we now have …...selling and hoping we replace with as good or better is chucking a dice and hoping for a six ….. 

 

we cannot afford to trundle along next season - and identify other areas we need to strengthen in. we need to make a breakthrough next season into europe or maguire and chilwell will be off and probably maddison too.  

 

and i doubt YT would come if he thought we weren't ambitious enough to keep our best players ………. there may well come a time when we need to be Southampton but at the moment we are possibly a a couple players away from breaking into the top six - we must waste it like we wasted the transfer windows following our league win ……...

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18 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

our side has huge potential going forward if we keep the v good players we now have …...selling and hoping we replace with as good or better is chucking a dice and hoping for a six ….. 

 

we cannot afford to trundle along next season - and identify other areas we need to strengthen in. we need to make a breakthrough next season into europe or maguire and chilwell will be off and probably maddison too.  

 

and i doubt YT would come if he thought we weren't ambitious enough to keep our best players ………. there may well come a time when we need to be Southampton but at the moment we are possibly a a couple players away from breaking into the top six - we must waste it like we wasted the transfer windows following our league win ……...

No selling all our best players will not achieve this and at this moment in time the only player we could potentially lose and be ok after is Maguire.

 

I'd rather keep him but I think we need cash

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32 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I don't understand why people can't get their minds around this. There are three options, if we discount a miracle happening again.

 

We either have huge investment from the owners to buy whoever we need, which they've shown no signs of doing. 

 

We stick with what we've got and rely on some great scouting and buys to fill the gaps we desperately need with relatively cheap options. 

 

We sell an asset and and rely on some good scouting and buys to fill the gaps we desperately need, spending good money. 

 

One isn't happening yet, both two and three rely on scouting and good buys. 

 

Yet options 2 and 3 are jeopardised by giving the head of recruitment to Rodgers mate who has failed everywhere, it's a huge gamble for a club with our supposed ambition and as you say option 1 would be highly surprising to suddenly happen.

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1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Yes but so have our competitors and we haven't got Tielemans (yet).

 

Arsenal are worse

Chelsea are worse

Manure are Worse.

 

Watford, Everton, West Ham .... meh

 

Wolves improved.

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