Are we stagnating?

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Southampton

Agree with the rest but if they back Hassenhuttl they'll be quite a scary proposition unfortunately 

[Dan LCFC]

I think we're building a decent squad but this manager isn't getting the best out of it, but I do respect his part in putting it together.

[knitro]

4 hours ago, Tuna said:

Another stealth Puel Out thread...

 

 

 

 

only joking.

Not even stealthy

[mozartfox]

No. We are in transition.   We will move on after the summer rebuild and after the old guard reaches the end of their contracts.  Just no contract extensions please.

[Babylon]

I'd just like to know when Maguire and Chilwell set their known standard? Was it when Chilwell wanted to be dumped out on loan last season by most on here, or perhaps when Maguire had us midtable last season as well?

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

Agree with the rest but if they back Hassenhuttl they'll be quite a scary proposition unfortunately 

Anything good that happens is new manger bounce remember, that's what we've been told.

[Nicolo Barella]

We aren't stagnating, we're solidifying.

[Dahnsouff]

Agree- we are not stagnating, we are evolving. Entropy by its very nature is painful.

 

Now for a scandalous bit, we won’t complete the evolution until Vardy jacks it in. He defines the way we "think" we play best.

Edited 7 February 2019 by Dahnsouff

[Grebfromgrebland]

11 hours ago, Fox92 said:

No. We're the average side we always have been.

Should be we're an average side which is about the best we've ever been.

[gerrytaggart]

12 hours ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

Well here we are in January sitting just inside the top half of the table. Relegation is not a problem, but we shall not be in any European competition. Some of our best players, are well below their known standard, such as Harry Maguire, Ben Chilwell,, and Jamie Vardy. We seem to be worse than too complacent. My view is that we are stagnating as a team. Something is wrong. Any ideas?

We are not in a European spot right now...doesnt mean we wont be come the end of the season.

 

I think the fanbase is the problem....a lot of them are stagnating.

 

Threads like this do nothing for the general mood. 

 

Can you seriously not see the positives?

[StriderHiryu]

5 hours ago, Stadt said:

Agree with the rest but if they back Hassenhuttl they'll be quite a scary proposition unfortunately 

He definitely seems like a good appointment I’ll give you that, but it remains to be seen how he does longer term. Also I think that Southampton’s owners will always sell whereas ours won’t. I expect Maguire to go but though he’s good he’s not in Kante or Mahrez’s bracket. 

[Hanan96]

Well unfortunately unless spending tons of money like man city did, no team will be able to replace 11 player every year. 

 

When last  season ends we have those problem :

One dimensional right back

Aging cb

Lack of cb adequate cover 

4 central midfield, 2 are defensive minded, 1 is creative but also keep dispossessed and lost his man, while another 1 is too slow and misplace pass quite often.

No adequate no. 10

 

So,we need to buy 1 attacking rb,1 or 2 cb, 1 or 2 cm, 1 no. 10. That's minimum 4 player, and all are directly first team need, which either can disrupt team cohesion, as well need time to gel with new team mate and probably league. 

 

Unfortunately, as the time goes, we got additional problem :

 

1 winger gone 

1 good cb didn't want to sign and the coach didn't want him either 

 

Then followed by our backup striker are suddenly lost his touch 

That made us need another 7 first team player. Can't do in same time without sacrifice team result.. 

So our gaffer choose to get 5 new player. Unfortunately again, 2 of them struggle until half of the season (Evans with injury and fitness, Soyuncu with adaptation) while Ricardo only start to get settled in November, and Madisson, while look quickly adapt with Epl, are need to adapt with new marking styles, which opposition start to man mark him which struggle him

 

Our first half of season aren't excellent because of those issue above. We tried to solve by signing new cm on loan. Hopefully this guy could be creative outlet but without speed, defensive work and ball keeping issues like our previous creative mid have. But how long will he need to adapt? That will be another stumbling block, hopefully not. 

 

 

[Babylon]

There are two things people need to look at, on and off the pitch. Firstly, off the pitch clearly we aren't stagnating as we are pushing forwards with ambitious projects that will then put us above many clubs of a similar size.

 

On the pitch, we could have just chucked all the title winning, champions league etc money at players and hoped that it was enough for a 6th / 7th spot for a few years, but that would have meant sacrificing off the field growth.  We put our toe in that water and didn't like it, so we've changed direction to one of investing time and money into young talent. That's going to bring numerous obvious issues like consistency, needing time to work etc.

 

We aren't stagnating, we just have a long term plan that isn't measured in one or two seasons, something impatient fans will never appreciate.

[weller54]

The PL title win just caused all of us to have raised expectations (understandably so).. 

We had that transfer window of summer 2016 to really make a statement and attract quality players to play for the champions of England and have CL football.. That opportunity was messed up big time!! 

Now we can't sign the necessary quality we need to compete with the top 6 so we're left with the only plan left.. To try and bring youth through. 

That will work to a degree but around that young developing player you also need experience and quality, we have some of that of course but the current 'blend' isn't quite there yet. 

Think we're going to be a mid table club for the foreseeable future so we better get used to it. 

[Lionheart10]

11 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

If we were stagnating, Would having your chairman tragically killed at the stadium he a reason to accept it maybe until the end of the season?

Very True we don't know exactly how much this has affected all parts of the club not just the players.

[ThaiFox]

9 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Well no. This has always been a rebuild job - remember that of those that remain from the title win, only Albrighton is under 30. We wasted the following 2 summer windows, spending near 90m on Musa, Slimani, Silva and Iborra. The first stage was done last summer, and we've now got a young defence (only Evans from last weekend over 30, and there's two under 23s in ready to take over from him in the near future), and a number of young attacking midfielders. Expect the next stage in the summer with another 6/7 players off the books (King, Okazaki, Fuchs, Simpson, Morgan, Slimani, Silva) freeing up a few hundred thousand pounds per week in wages and a number of squad spaces, with a defensive midfielder more capable of quarter-backing as it were, and a couple of strikers to ultimately displace Vardy. We're rebuilding and consolidating on the pitch, and developing brilliantly off it. There's a clear path laid out to be a real force in 3-5 years if it works properly.  

 

8 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Definitely not!

 

If you look at the short term results you might have a point, but we are one of the most forward thinking clubs in the country:

 

• Youngest squad in the league
• All key players tied down to long term contracts; Chilwell, Maguire, Vardy, Kasper, Ndidi
• New training academy rumoured to be the best in the Premier League if not Europe under development
• Stadium improvements to increase the size of the stadium to around the 40K mark
• More young players breaking through; Harvey Barnes, Hamza Choudhury. Another class one on his way back next year in Benkovic
• Just picked up one of the most highly rated young central midfielders in Europe. Yes it's loan, but it's a start
• Older players are being transitioned out of the squad

 

If you want an example of a club that is stagnating, look at Burnley, Southampton or Everton.

 

The problem is our fanbase expect us to punch above our weight every season when over the course of time we've spent most of our time in the Championship. May I remind you that the season before we shocked the world, we were bottom for the longest amount of time ever spent by a club who went onto survive. 10 years ago when we were in League One, I dreamed of returning to the days when we were a mediocre Premier League team like when MON was in charge!

 

Even if as a supporter you hate the manager, you should still get behind the club. We are run brilliantly and are going places. Above the club shop, the catchphrase "New Horizons" is put there for a reason. We aren't going to get there over night, but we are building the club and squad slowly but surely.

 

 

Both spot on.

 

Anyone who thinks we are stagnating should look at old clips of us under McLintock, Levein, Megson, Pleat, Taylor, etc!!

 

I can assure anyone who has witnessed any the above, and I've suffered them all, this is a brilliant time to be a Leicester City supporter.

 

 

[volpeazzurro]

I'm surprised that some people are suprised about the position we find ourselves in. In fact I think it's going a hell of a lot better than I thought it would. Europe was always a bit of an unrealistic joke of a goal this season with the mixture of players we had. Hopefully we can transition a bit more in the summer but ... transfer markets for clubs like us are never going to be easy for a number of reasons, but the market isn't exactly awash with 20 goals a season strikers that may be expected to play second fiddle to  Vardy.

 

We've some tremendous prospects and I think things look a lot brighter for us than many of the teams around us. I don't think we're stagnating, our history shows that we've rarely been higher than this. We're regrouping sensibly for the next push, the futures bright.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

There are two things people need to look at, on and off the pitch. Firstly, off the pitch clearly we aren't stagnating as we are pushing forwards with ambitious projects that will then put us above many clubs of a similar size.

 

On the pitch, we could have just chucked all the title winning, champions league etc money at players and hoped that it was enough for a 6th / 7th spot for a few years, but that would have meant sacrificing off the field growth.  We put our toe in that water and didn't like it, so we've changed direction to one of investing time and money into young talent. That's going to bring numerous obvious issues like consistency, needing time to work etc.

 

We aren't stagnating, we just have a long term plan that isn't measured in one or two seasons, something impatient fans will never appreciate.

Ultimately football is cyclic - the downs have occurred and this is us at the plateau, hopefully coming back up. 

 

Under O'Neill, we went 9th, 10th, 10th, 8th. 

 

Current squad has us 14th, 1st, 12th, 9th... (11th). 

 

I was just looking at our longest runs in the top flight; 12 season pre-PL and 6 seasons post PL (about to equal the latter)

Edited 7 February 2019 by Cardiff_Fox

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Ultimately football is cyclic - the downs have occurred and this is us at the plateau, hopefully coming back up. 

History would suggest this is still our high.

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

History would suggest this is still our high.

I've just had an overall look at our runs in top flight. 

 

12 seasons 1957-1969

10 seasons 1925-1935

7 seasons 1971-1978

6 seasons 1997-2003

5 seasons 2014-to now = about to be six. 

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I've just had an overall look at our runs in top flight. 

 

12 seasons 1957-1969

10 seasons 1925-1935

7 seasons 1971-1978

6 seasons 1997-2003

5 seasons 2014-to now = about to be six. 

Best make the most of it then as recent history says we've got one more year max

[Father Ted]

10 hours ago, The Doctor said:

Well no. This has always been a rebuild job - remember that of those that remain from the title win, only Albrighton is under 30. We wasted the following 2 summer windows, spending near 90m on Musa, Slimani, Silva and Iborra. The first stage was done last summer, and we've now got a young defence (only Evans from last weekend over 30, and there's two under 23s in ready to take over from him in the near future), and a number of young attacking midfielders. Expect the next stage in the summer with another 6/7 players off the books (King, Okazaki, Fuchs, Simpson, Morgan, Slimani, Silva) freeing up a few hundred thousand pounds per week in wages and a number of squad spaces, with a defensive midfielder more capable of quarter-backing as it were, and a couple of strikers to ultimately displace Vardy. We're rebuilding and consolidating on the pitch, and developing brilliantly off it. There's a clear path laid out to be a real force in 3-5 years if it works properly.  

As much as I agree with this to an extent this will never work under Puel. 

 

It's easy enough to say that he's "playing youth" but the simple fact is that it's because they are good enough, not because he has chosen to test them! Take Hamza Choudhury as an example, spends the first half of the season rotting in the Under 23s despite impressing consistently in first team training. It wasn't until an impressive display against Man City in the cup that he was finally given more of a chance. Now, despite some outstanding performances, he has to watch on from the bench as a hugely underperforming and lethargic Ndidi (of the same age btw) and '5 yard sideways pass and gets pushed over when he goes to tackle' Mendy start instead. Imagine how that damages his confidence. What sort of message does this send out to players? 

 

Secondly on the youth debate, Puel in brigade can't wait to scream "but look at Chilwell now!!!!", well I'll give you back "but look at Ndidi, Iheanacho, Gray, Maddison!!!!". All of these have regressed massively! Whether it is the coaching by Puel and his team or a confidence matter, I cannot tell but most cannot argue that these players have considerably got worse under Puel. I fear for Barnes. 

 

Realistically, imagine how bored we get as fans, imagine being a player in that side. No wonder the players lack so much enthusiasm and any kind of attacking flair. 

 

Look at our recent form, if we hadn't scammed a 1-0 win at Everton after a first half performance that is in my opinion the worst half of the season and a fortunate 1-0 win at Chelsea, we would be in a relegation battle. We have thrown away an opportunity to secure 7th and potentially a European place for next season for the 2nd season as a row, all whilst Puel spouts that we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham and Wolves. 

 

People will blame the fans for negativity and whilst I agree that booing players is wrong  (although I think most were booing the substitution decision rather than the players), it stems down to negativity of the style of play built by the Puel dynasty. 

 

We are in trouble. Where is the ambition? We could have pushed for 7th. We could have been in cup semi finals or finals but Puel's philosophy has killed that all with his footballing negativity, poor team selections and his press interviews. Imagine what the players thought when they read that we can't compete with Wolves, West Ham and Everton? He should have come out and said that we want to push for 7th and Europe! Waste of time. We have a squad with the ability to push for top 6 - fact! Look at our results against the top 6. Compare our squad to Arsenal for example and now tell me we can't be pushing for it. Get rid and get Brendan Rodgers in because I know with this clown Puel in charge, in 3-5 years we will more likely be in the Championship than top 10 Premiership.

[SuperMike]

17 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

As much as I agree with this to an extent this will never work under Puel. 

 

It's easy enough to say that he's "playing youth" but the simple fact is that it's because they are good enough, not because he has chosen to test them! Take Hamza Choudhury as an example, spends the first half of the season rotting in the Under 23s despite impressing consistently in first team training. It wasn't until an impressive display against Man City in the cup that he was finally given more of a chance. Now, despite some outstanding performances, he has to watch on from the bench as a hugely underperforming and lethargic Ndidi (of the same age btw) and '5 yard sideways pass and gets pushed over when he goes to tackle' Mendy start instead. Imagine how that damages his confidence. What sort of message does this send out to players? 

 

Secondly on the youth debate, Puel in brigade can't wait to scream "but look at Chilwell now!!!!", well I'll give you back "but look at Ndidi, Iheanacho, Gray, Maddison!!!!". All of these have regressed massively! Whether it is the coaching by Puel and his team or a confidence matter, I cannot tell but most cannot argue that these players have considerably got worse under Puel. I fear for Barnes. 

 

Realistically, imagine how bored we get as fans, imagine being a player in that side. No wonder the players lack so much enthusiasm and any kind of attacking flair. 

 

Look at our recent form, if we hadn't scammed a 1-0 win at Everton after a first half performance that is in my opinion the worst half of the season and a fortunate 1-0 win at Chelsea, we would be in a relegation battle. We have thrown away an opportunity to secure 7th and potentially a European place for next season for the 2nd season as a row, all whilst Puel spouts that we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham and Wolves. 

 

People will blame the fans for negativity and whilst I agree that booing players is wrong  (although I think most were booing the substitution decision rather than the players), it stems down to negativity of the style of play built by the Puel dynasty. 

 

We are in trouble. Where is the ambition? We could have pushed for 7th. We could have been in cup semi finals or finals but Puel's philosophy has killed that all with his footballing negativity, poor team selections and his press interviews. Imagine what the players thought when they read that we can't compete with Wolves, West Ham and Everton? He should have come out and said that we want to push for 7th and Europe! Waste of time. We have a squad with the ability to push for top 6 - fact! Look at our results against the top 6. Compare our squad to Arsenal for example and now tell me we can't be pushing for it. Get rid and get Brendan Rodgers in because I know with this clown Puel in charge, in 3-5 years we will more likely be in the Championship than top 10 Premiership.

WoW! ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON IN EVERY WAY. 

Couldnt agree more with comments about youngsters regressing. The joy and the flair and the skills and the ambitions seem to be knocked out of them. Jeez - poor Maddison (have you seen his expression recently- no smiles like at Norwich) is even afraid to head into an empty net from 2 yards as it would be deemed to be 'not passing to a teammate'. FFS.

[Babylon]

50 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

As much as I agree with this to an extent this will never work under Puel. 

 

It's easy enough to say that he's "playing youth" but the simple fact is that it's because they are good enough, not because he has chosen to test them! Take Hamza Choudhury as an example, spends the first half of the season rotting in the Under 23s despite impressing consistently in first team training. It wasn't until an impressive display against Man City in the cup that he was finally given more of a chance. Now, despite some outstanding performances, he has to watch on from the bench as a hugely underperforming and lethargic Ndidi (of the same age btw) and '5 yard sideways pass and gets pushed over when he goes to tackle' Mendy start instead. Imagine how that damages his confidence. What sort of message does this send out to players? 

I don't seem to remember many screaming for Hamza to get a chance in the team before Puel started putting him in, in fact most of this forum wrote off Chilwell as rubbish and said he should be loaned to the championship. He has and is giving youth a chance. You can say it's because they are good enough, yet I didn't see anyone else putting faith in these lads like Puel has previously. To suggest he's not putting faith in young players when we're actively giving twice the amount of minutes to under 22's than anyone else is just beyond ludicrous.

 

Quote

Secondly on the youth debate, Puel in brigade can't wait to scream "but look at Chilwell now!!!!", well I'll give you back "but look at Ndidi, Iheanacho, Gray, Maddison!!!!". All of these have regressed massively! Whether it is the coaching by Puel and his team or a confidence matter, I cannot tell but most cannot argue that these players have considerably got worse under Puel. I fear for Barnes.

How have they regressed? Only Ndidi looks weaker, but that's purely down to the fact he's being challenged on the ball now and he's just not very good at it. Gray is no worse than he ever has been, he's not cemented a starting spot in over three years for good reason. Iheanacho has looked a dud since the start sadly and Maddison is in his first season at this level to be able to even judge his performance levels is impossible as there is nothing to compare against.

 

Quote

People will blame the fans for negativity and whilst I agree that booing players is wrong  (although I think most were booing the substitution decision rather than the players), it stems down to negativity of the style of play built by the Puel dynasty.

Can we just rewind a bit here to 2016-2017... at this stage we were sat on 21 points in 17th place, with just 24 goals score and 43 conceded. Can we all stop pretending that there wasn't 18 months of shite before he turned up, with performances and results worse than what we're currently seeing. Sat watching us get dominated week in week out and having 35% possession bored me to tears far more than us dominating and being frustrated that we just can't make that final step.

 

We probably need to freshen things up, we're just not seeing enough improvement on the pitch, but there has been improvement and there has been far more faith shown to young players. There is enough to critisise, without anyone needing to try and take away from what he has done, or exaggerate things.

 

As for a squad capable of being top 6, I respectfully disagree.... massively. Our style of play lends itself to looking better against teams who don't sit back, the league is not made up of teams who attack, it's mostly a load of 11 men behind the ball managers, which doesn't lend itself to our style or players.

Edited 7 February 2019 by Babylon

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

43 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

As much as I agree with this to an extent this will never work under Puel. 

 

It's easy enough to say that he's "playing youth" but the simple fact is that it's because they are good enough, not because he has chosen to test them! Take Hamza Choudhury as an example, spends the first half of the season rotting in the Under 23s despite impressing consistently in first team training. It wasn't until an impressive display against Man City in the cup that he was finally given more of a chance. Now, despite some outstanding performances, he has to watch on from the bench as a hugely underperforming and lethargic Ndidi (of the same age btw) and '5 yard sideways pass and gets pushed over when he goes to tackle' Mendy start instead. Imagine how that damages his confidence. What sort of message does this send out to players? 

 

Secondly on the youth debate, Puel in brigade can't wait to scream "but look at Chilwell now!!!!", well I'll give you back "but look at Ndidi, Iheanacho, Gray, Maddison!!!!". All of these have regressed massively! Whether it is the coaching by Puel and his team or a confidence matter, I cannot tell but most cannot argue that these players have considerably got worse under Puel. I fear for Barnes. 

 

Realistically, imagine how bored we get as fans, imagine being a player in that side. No wonder the players lack so much enthusiasm and any kind of attacking flair. 

 

Look at our recent form, if we hadn't scammed a 1-0 win at Everton after a first half performance that is in my opinion the worst half of the season and a fortunate 1-0 win at Chelsea, we would be in a relegation battle. We have thrown away an opportunity to secure 7th and potentially a European place for next season for the 2nd season as a row, all whilst Puel spouts that we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham and Wolves. 

 

People will blame the fans for negativity and whilst I agree that booing players is wrong  (although I think most were booing the substitution decision rather than the players), it stems down to negativity of the style of play built by the Puel dynasty. 

 

We are in trouble. Where is the ambition? We could have pushed for 7th. We could have been in cup semi finals or finals but Puel's philosophy has killed that all with his footballing negativity, poor team selections and his press interviews. Imagine what the players thought when they read that we can't compete with Wolves, West Ham and Everton? He should have come out and said that we want to push for 7th and Europe! Waste of time. We have a squad with the ability to push for top 6 - fact! Look at our results against the top 6. Compare our squad to Arsenal for example and now tell me we can't be pushing for it. Get rid and get Brendan Rodgers in because I know with this clown Puel in charge, in 3-5 years we will more likely be in the Championship than top 10 Premiership.

Lot of subjective stuff here.  Could have pushed for 7th.  Well, yes...?    Arent we still?

 

Gray has not ''regressed massively''.  Neither has Maddison or Ndidi really.  Nacho's best and worst form here has come underneath Puel's management.

 

We are definitely not in trouble.  We could have been in cup finals but for a few individual mistakes from players, lets be honest about it.

 

We do not have a squad with the ability to push the top 6