Are we stagnating?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Imagine how that damages his confidence. What sort of message does this send out to players?

Puel gave Choudhury his Premier League debut so I don't think you can really make out that he's treated him particularly poorly.

 

2 hours ago, Father Ted said:

if we hadn't scammed a 1-0 win at Everton after a first half performance that is in my opinion the worst half of the season and a fortunate 1-0 win at Chelsea, we would be in a relegation battle

But we did win those games, so we aren't. If we're using hypothetical results to judge managers then if we'd beaten Burnley, West Ham and Cardiff at home, games in which we hit the woodwork multiple times, had a penalty saved, had shots cleared off the line, had a combined 59 shots with 19 on target for just one goal, we'd be 7th. 

 

2 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Puel spouts that we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham and Wolves

He said this in relation to the transfer market. Everton's net spend over the last two seasons is more than double ours, West Ham have the advantage both in terms of having a free stadium and the London factor, Wolves have richer owners than us and also have the support of Mendes. 

 

2 hours ago, Father Ted said:

We have a squad with the ability to push for top 6 - fact! Look at our results against the top 6. Compare our squad to Arsenal for example and now tell me we can't be pushing for it.

That is categorically not a fact. If you honestly believe our squad is as good as Arsenal's then I think you're really overestimating the capabilities of our players.

 

2 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Where is the ambition? We could have pushed for 7th. We could have been in cup semi finals or finals

I wish our attitude towards the cups was better but it predates Puel's arrival here. He's also got us to three quarter-finals in two seasons, where we've gone out on penalties to Man City twice and in extra time to Chelsea. Getting to cup finals and finishing seventh isn't as easy as just having ambition. I fully expect Puel to be gone in the summer and I certainly won't shed any tears when it happens. I've no doubt there are managers out there who can get better out of the squad and get us playing better, more exciting football, but if you're expecting a new manager to come in and straight away have us pushing top six and getting to Wembley every other year I really think you're going to be disappointed.

[The Doctor]

11 hours ago, Father Ted said:

As much as I agree with this to an extent this will never work under Puel.

What utter crap your post is...

 

Quote

 

It's easy enough to say that he's "playing youth" but the simple fact is that it's because they are good enough, not because he has chosen to test them!
 

 

 

Ok, if we're dealing in simple facts here's a better one for you - even if a youth player is good enough, it still requires a manager prepared to trust them over the reliability of experience. 

 

Quote

 

Secondly on the youth debate, Puel in brigade can't wait to scream "but look at Chilwell now!!!!", well I'll give you back "but look at Ndidi, Iheanacho, Gray, Maddison!!!!". All of these have regressed massively! Whether it is the coaching by Puel and his team or a confidence matter, I cannot tell but most cannot argue that these players have considerably got worse under Puel. I fear for Barnes
 

 

 

Except none of them have definitely got worse under Puel? Gray is the same player he was 3 years ago - great flair, questionable decision making, little end product. He actually is stagnating. Maddison is inconsistent but glimpses of quality, almost like this is his first season in the top flight - his biggest problem is strength, and that's not a coaching thing. Ndidi is as good a ball winner as ever, and statistically he's getting better at passing, it was always a weak point and it's more obvious now he's trying more expansive passing but it's better than it was. The only one I'd come close to agreeing with is Iheanacho, but he didn't really play before Puel arrived due to injury, and the situation here is different to Man City in terms of the squad role and play style, is it that he can't cope under the increased pressure of being a proper competitor for starting berths compared to being the wonder kid thrown on when the games won to get some pitch time?

 

Quote

 

Look at our recent form, if we hadn't scammed a 1-0 win at Everton after a first half performance that is in my opinion the worst half of the season and a fortune win at Chelsea, we would be in a relegation battle
 

 

 

But why look at the wins and argue not deserved when we could flip it and talk about how if we hadn't missed two good chances against Liverpool, and a penalty at home to Cardiff, we'd be in 7th? The form we've churned out all season is midtable form, we've been consistently inconsistent.

 

Quote

 

We have thrown away an opportunity to secure 7th and potentially a European place for next season for the second season in a row, all whilst Puel spouts that we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham and Wolves
 

 

 

Ignoring that there's a third of the season still to go and we could be back in 7th by the end of this month, he's right - we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham or Wolves financially. Everton have spent far more than us in recent windows, West Ham have a free stadium that we (as taxpayers) are paying for and Wolves have a shady deal with a super agent that gets them Champions League quality players in the championship. We cannot compete on those terms, we have to find our own way, which is the youth and squad building approach. Look beyond the ****ing click bait headline for once.

 

Quote

 

We are in trouble. Where is the ambition? We could have pushed for 7th. We could have been in cup semi finals or finals but Puels philosophy has killed all that with his footballing negativity, poor team selections and his press interviews
 

 

 

Do you not listen to a word coming out of the club? Vichai said it repeatedly, Top has since said it when he reaffirmed his commitment to his dad's vision. The ambition is long term. We are not in it for short term success - the ambition is to build Europe's best training facilities, to expand the stadium and to set up an infrastructure off the pitch that allows us to compete with the very biggest sides on it. But this is long term planning, and your issue is you want Rome built by yesterday. As for cups, let's be clear the approach to them is not a Puel thing, it's common across most midtable clubs and predates him here as well. And yet, we've made 3 quarter finals under him, losing on penalties in 2 to possibly the best side in world football right now and losing in extra time to the eventual winners in the other. His cup record here is one of the better ones in my lifetime, not something to be held against him. Also let's be clear - our squad is not good enough to be pushing 6th. Our best starting line up could give anyone a game but our squad depth is laughable. Arsenal can start with Lacazette and bring Aubameyang off the bench - we can bring Okazaki on. Not in the same level.

Edited 7 February 2019 by The Doctor

[weller54]

3 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

What utter crap your post is...

 

 

 

 

Ok, if we're dealing in simple facts here's a better one for you - even if a youth player is good enough, it still requires a manager prepared to trust them over the reliability of experience. 

 

 

 

 

Except none of them have definitely got worse under Puel? Gray is the same player he was 3 years ago - great flair, questionable decision making, little end product. He actually is stagnating. Maddison is inconsistent but glimpses of quality, almost like this is his first season in the top flight - his biggest problem is strength, and that's not a coaching thing. Ndidi is as good a ball winner as ever, and statistically he's getting better at passing, it was always a weak point and it's more obvious now he's trying more expansive passing but it's better than it was. The only one I'd come close to agreeing with is Iheanacho, but he didn't really play before Puel arrived due to injury, and the situation here is different to Man City in terms of the squad role and play style, is it that he can't cope under the increased pressure of being a proper competitor for starting berths compared to being the wonder kid thrown on when the games won to get some pitch time?

 

 

 

 

But why look at the wins and argue not deserved when we could flip it and talk about how if we hadn't missed two good chances against Liverpool, and a penalty at home to Cardiff, we'd be in 7th? The form we've churned out all season is midtable form, we've been consistently inconsistent.

 

 

 

 

Ignoring that there's a third of the season still to go and we could be back in 7th by the end of this month, he's right - we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham or Wolves financially. Everton have spent far more than us in recent windows, West Ham have a free stadium that we (as taxpayers) are paying for and Wolves have a shady deal with a super agent that gets them Champions League quality players in the championship. We cannot compete on those terms, we have to find our own way, which is the youth and squad building approach. Look beyond the ****ing click bait headline for once.

 

 

 

 

Do you not listen to a word coming out of the club? Vichai said it repeatedly, Top has since said it when he reaffirmed his commitment to his dad's vision. The ambition is long term. We are not in it for short term success - the ambition is to build Europe's best training facilities, to expand the stadium and to set up an infrastructure off the pitch that allows us to compete with the very biggest sides on it. But this is long term planning, and your issue is you want Rome built by yesterday. As for cups, let's be clear the approach to them is not a Puel thing, it's common across most midtable clubs and predates him here as well. And yet, we've made 3 quarter finals under him, losing on penalties in 2 to possibly the best side in world football right now and losing in extra time to the eventual winners in the other. His cup record here is one of the better ones in my lifetime, not something to be held against him.

Meh! 

[Dusty]

I understand the point you’re making, but I think we’re on the cusp of having a really great team that will challenge for European places.

 

Some players are still adapting to regular first team football in the prem: Chilwell, Periera, Soyuncu, Mendy, Maddison, Barnes etc and then with Benkovic coming back from his loan he’ll sure up the defence. All we’re missing is a central mindfielder, which youri could turn out to be, a striker, perhaps a Seb Haller kind of player and a winger maybe Hazard or Saint-Maxim. With those players and what we already have, it would be a young squad with good competition for places.

 

I understand the stagnant of comment, but I feel once this season is over, we’ll really kick on next year.

[Nicolo Barella]

10 hours ago, Dusty said:

I understand the point you’re making, but I think we’re on the cusp of having a really great team that will challenge for European places.

 

Some players are still adapting to regular first team football in the prem: Chilwell, Periera, Soyuncu, Mendy, Maddison, Barnes etc and then with Benkovic coming back from his loan he’ll sure up the defence. All we’re missing is a central mindfielder, which youri could turn out to be, a striker, perhaps a Seb Haller kind of player and a winger maybe Hazard or Saint-Maxim. With those players and what we already have, it would be a young squad with good competition for places.

 

I understand the stagnant of comment, but I feel once this season is over, we’ll really kick on next year.

Hazard and Saint-Maxim are off to the likes of Dortmund and Milan, I think we will have to shoot a little lower, but I agree with your sentiment. 

[HKFox]

Puel deserves great credit for decreasing the average age of the team and removing on players we all said were not good enough for Leicester at this stage. Ulloa, King, Benny.

 

+ i think we have to give Puel credit for playing the younger players as we have an extremely talented youthful team. Which bodes very well for the future. However I do think the players are not playing as well as they are capable of. And I have to disagree with Puel regarding Choudhry as in my view he has been our best cm, and he is the one getting the least minutes on the pitch. 

 

We have always had some disagreements on this forum, of course that is bound to happen. But I can not remember a time where everyone is so split on the current manager. 

[lcfcell]

How many “boring seasons” have we had over the last 10 years? relegation, League one champs, play off penalties, play offs vs Watford, winning championship, great escape, title win, Champions league campaign. That’s all in just 10 years. So we aren’t really used to having a quiet season are we? Now we’ve had 2 fairly dull seasons in a row, I think some fans just aren’t coping with it

[MC Prussian]

27 minutes ago, HKFox said:

Puel deserves great credit for decreasing the average age of the team and removing on players we all said were not good enough for Leicester at this stage. Ulloa, King, Benny.

 

+ i think we have to give Puel credit for playing the younger players as we have an extremely talented youthful team. Which bodes very well for the future. However I do think the players are not playing as well as they are capable of. And I have to disagree with Puel regarding Choudhry as in my view he has been our best cm, and he is the one getting the least minutes on the pitch. 

 

We have always had some disagreements on this forum, of course that is bound to happen. But I can not remember a time where everyone is so split on the current manager. 

I can give Puel credit for pushing for more younger players to make it into the starting XI - however, the removal of older players is a process you cannot pin down to a particular manager, it's a natural and regular occurrence. We've had older players leaving before, and you could equally say that some of the more experienced members of our squad at present have been living off the league title and the subsequent contract extensions for too long and should've been faced with the question of leaving earlier.

 

Edited 8 February 2019 by MC Prussian

[MC Prussian]

21 minutes ago, lcfcell said:

How many “boring seasons” have we had over the last 10 years? relegation, League one champs, play off penalties, play offs vs Watford, winning championship, great escape, title win, Champions league campaign. That’s all in just 10 years. So we aren’t really used to having a quiet season are we? Now we’ve had 2 fairly dull seasons in a row, I think some fans just aren’t coping with it

Yeah, it's been one great rollercoaster ride in the past 10+ years. Would I want to trade it in for any other football experience? Heck no.

 

I'd like to give Puel one more season, I think three years (or close to three years more like it) is a decent period of time to assess the progress that has been made.

But should this type of football continue, then my patience will have finally worn off.

 

No one's expecting overnight success and everything needs to be put in context - we're never likely to challenge the Top Six in this country, so 7th is the best we can hope and strive for. Transition takes its time, I know.

Unfortunately, this and this past season have been underwhelming if not downright disappointing to say the least.

It's fair to say a vast majority of LCFC fans would be happy to finish mid-table, but just not by getting this far (up to 7th), then letting games and the season slip away by losing more than one's winning... Last season is about to repeat itself. I don't see that as progress, and coupled with the football on show and the few home games won this season, one can only be hopeful Puel and the players are able to turn it around for the better. Because it's been really dire to watch, at times even unbearably bad. I also don't think the manager is able to get the best out of players.

 

God knows how I'm going to cope with next season, reliving it all over again under Puel. High hopes, then finish somewhere in No Man's Land in the table. I'd like to see us being a tad bit more ambitious on the sporting side, starting in 2019-20. So far, I've heard nothing but constant excuses coming from the manager and players. We're not living up to our full potential yet, and that has to change.

Edited 8 February 2019 by MC Prussian

[squidsworth]

Stagnating? Maybe, but for me the style is the main problem, I'd say the majority of fans don't actually like it and it does nothing to get an atmosphere going at home! And its creating a negative cycle that's proving very hard to get out of.

 

It doesn't excite, and so the fans are flat at home games & we struggle to create a positive atmosphere.  This does affect the players I'm sure, as they can see (and hear) we just aren't very enthusiastic about what's being served up to us.  We simply start out far too negatively in home games, sitting back trying not to concede whoever we play (and actually ironically most of the time conceding during that period).  So instantly the negative cycle has begun.  Instead of trying not concede for as long as possible at the beginning of games, at home at least, we should be on the front foot trying to be the first to score - we need to be more positive from the off.

 

I think we all know we can do better than we are doing at the moment; players, fans and manager alike.  And that's the frustrating thing.  Maybe the tragedy has had an effect, and it would be understandable.  But I believe this negative cycle started at least 12-18 months ago, sometime before that event.  And the cycle of negativity needs to be broken. Maybe the only way to do that is bring someone in who has fresh ideas.  Especially if the manager has not got what it takes to see what is happening and make changes accordingly.  As if this continues much longer, its just going to affect the morale of players and fans alike to a point it'll end with a negative outcome, like relegation.  

 

So someone, somewhere (namely Puel but players and fans need to do their bit), needs to pull something out of the bag pretty quickly, if the longer term project is to come to fruition.   Lets just go for it a bit more in games, at least early on, and I'm confident things will change.  We all need to find our mojo, our positivity again.

 

Edited 8 February 2019 by squidsworth

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

9 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

I can give Puel credit for pushing for more younger players to make it into the starting XI - however, the removal of older players is a process you cannot pin down to a particular manager, it's a natural and regular occurrence. We've had older players leaving before, and you could equally say that some of the more experienced members of our squad at present have been living off the league title and the subsequent contract extensions for too long and should've been faced with the question of leaving earlier.

 

This is exactly as I see the situation. To those who believe this was an anti-Puel thread, you are totally wrong, and have not gripped the essence of the thread. We are not playing as a complete team of late, and MC Prussian has hit the nail on the head.

[Slab Edd]

 

Like a packet of crisps on the roof

[That_Dude]

On 07/02/2019 at 03:11, Dan LCFC said:

I think we're building a decent squad but this manager isn't getting the best out of it, but I do respect his part in putting it together.

He's very likely gone at the end of the season, no matter the results, and will certainly have laid some solid foundations for the future. It would be nice if people get off his back and some of the players (naturally not aiming at you) and try to somehow enjoy the rest of the season. 

[Dusty]

On 08/02/2019 at 09:13, Nicolo Barella said:

Hazard and Saint-Maxim are off to the likes of Dortmund and Milan, I think we will have to shoot a little lower, but I agree with your sentiment. 

Yes you’re probably right, they are above us now, but players like Kalu and sangare who are performing really well in Ligue 1 right now would be great additions at a small cost.

[urban fox]

Agree whole heartedly with mc prussian and dangerous tiger. There is certainly a long term plan and we need to be patient. I am bang behind Puel in what he is trying to do re the youngsters and transition us into a side who can also play possession football but I do get frustrated at times with the rigidity of his tactics. Sometimes you have to adapt to the opposition, especially when playing supposedly weaker sides at home and that is where I begin to lose faith. I know elsewhere I may come across as anti Puel but that is not the case. I would say at the moment I am a Puel agnostic. Unless u out are in danger of relegation then any manager should be given at least 2 to 3 years. After that if there is no progress then it's time for a change.

[Dan LCFC]

7 hours ago, That_Dude said:

He's very likely gone at the end of the season, no matter the results, and will certainly have laid some solid foundations for the future. It would be nice if people get off his back and some of the players (naturally not aiming at you) and try to somehow enjoy the rest of the season. 

I do agree and think that the atmosphere contributes to a vicious cycle. I think it's a shame in some ways but I just can't see him ever having the backing of a large percentage of the fanbase and when you're so poor at home that's a big contributor.

[LinekersLugs]

We are getting sucked into a relegation scrap the gap is closing now ! 

[ARM1968]

No. We are festering. 

[fuchsntf]

On 07/02/2019 at 14:01, Guest said:

Puel gave Choudhury his Premier League debut so I don't think you can really make out that he's treated him particularly poorly.

 

But we did win those games, so we aren't. If we're using hypothetical results to judge managers then if we'd beaten Burnley, West Ham and Cardiff at home, games in which we hit the woodwork multiple times, had a penalty saved, had shots cleared off the line, had a combined 59 shots with 19 on target for just one goal, we'd be 7th. 

 

He said this in relation to the transfer market. Everton's net spend over the last two seasons is more than double ours, West Ham have the advantage both in terms of having a free stadium and the London factor, Wolves have richer owners than us and also have the support of Mendes. 

 

That is categorically not a fact. If you honestly believe our squad is as good as Arsenal's then I think you're really overestimating the capabilities of our players.

 

I wish our attitude towards the cups was better but it predates Puel's arrival here. He's also got us to three quarter-finals in two seasons, where we've gone out on penalties to Man City twice and in extra time to Chelsea. Getting to cup finals and finishing seventh isn't as easy as just having ambition. I fully expect Puel to be gone in the summer and I certainly won't shed any tears when it happens. I've no doubt there are managers out there who can get better out of the squad and get us playing better, more exciting football, but if you're expecting a new manager to come in and straight away have us pushing top six and getting to Wembley every other year I really think you're going to be disappointed.

Puel...Will still be our manager next season..despite that slip, a great post. 

 

[fuchsntf]

On 07/02/2019 at 23:02, The Doctor said:

What utter crap your post is...

 

 

Ok, if we're dealing in simple facts here's a better one for you - even if a youth player is good enough, it still requires a manager prepared to trust them over the reliability of experience. 

 

 

Except none of them have definitely got worse under Puel? Gray is the same player he was 3 years ago - great flair, questionable decision making, little end product. He actually is stagnating. Maddison is inconsistent but glimpses of quality, almost like this is his first season in the top flight - his biggest problem is strength, and that's not a coaching thing. Ndidi is as good a ball winner as ever, and statistically he's getting better at passing, it was always a weak point and it's more obvious now he's trying more expansive passing but it's better than it was. The only one I'd come close to agreeing with is Iheanacho, but he didn't really play before Puel arrived due to injury, and the situation here is different to Man City in terms of the squad role and play style, is it that he can't cope under the increased pressure of being a proper competitor for starting berths compared to being the wonder kid thrown on when the games won to get some pitch time?

 

 

But why look at the wins and argue not deserved when we could flip it and talk about how if we hadn't missed two good chances against Liverpool, and a penalty at home to Cardiff, we'd be in 7th? The form we've churned out all season is midtable form, we've been consistently inconsistent.

 

 

Ignoring that there's a third of the season still to go and we could be back in 7th by the end of this month, he's right - we cannot compete with Everton, West Ham or Wolves financially. Everton have spent far more than us in recent windows, West Ham have a free stadium that we (as taxpayers) are paying for and Wolves have a shady deal with a super agent that gets them Champions League quality players in the championship. We cannot compete on those terms, we have to find our own way, which is the youth and squad building approach. Look beyond the ****ing click bait headline for once.

 

 

Do you not listen to a word coming out of the club? Vichai said it repeatedly, Top has since said it when he reaffirmed his commitment to his dad's vision. The ambition is long term. We are not in it for short term success - the ambition is to build Europe's best training facilities, to expand the stadium and to set up an infrastructure off the pitch that allows us to compete with the very biggest sides on it. But this is long term planning, and your issue is you want Rome built by yesterday. As for cups, let's be clear the approach to them is not a Puel thing, it's common across most midtable clubs and predates him here as well. And yet, we've made 3 quarter finals under him, losing on penalties in 2 to possibly the best side in world football right now and losing in extra time to the eventual winners in the other. His cup record here is one of the better ones in my lifetime, not something to be held against him. Also let's be clear - our squad is not good enough to be pushing 6th. Our best starting line up could give anyone a game but our squad depth is laughable. Arsenal can start with Lacazette and bring Aubameyang off the bench - we can bring Okazaki on. Not in the same level.

Besides Being what the Doctor ordered,excellent diagnose.....top notch post!!

 

 

[dannythefox]

We’ve gone from and oldish team to one that’s to young. It’s ok saying it’s for the future but half of them will be gone in 2 or 3seasons if they end up being quality. 

[HighPeakFox]

26 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

We’ve gone from and oldish team to one that’s to young. It’s ok saying it’s for the future but half of them will be gone in 2 or 3seasons if they end up being quality. 

For lots of money, which should help with the future... 

[fuchsntf]

20 minutes ago, dannythefox said:

We’ve gone from and oldish team to one that’s to young. It’s ok saying it’s for the future but half of them will be gone in 2 or 3seasons if they end up being quality. 

So!!!  At least they played for us!!!! Shame the support failed!!

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

For lots of money, which should help with the future... 

There needs to be a balance though, in the immediate short term we need to be able to actually be competitive. Being focussed on the future is an appropriate strategy but we need to realise our potential as well.

[Gamble92]

My mom drinks dark fruits every Saturday and shes 54

 

Thats stagnating 

 

Claude playing youth in a Premier League side isnt. 

 

Get behind the lads