Watford Away Post Match Thread 2-1

[marcymarc666]

7 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

All night?

 

It kicked off at midday

He's in Timbuktu

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

You couldn't fuchin write it

Changing the formation was a mistake if we look at that game in isolation, but if that's how he's decided he wants to line up then we've just got to stick with it. There are going to be plenty of problems to iron out on the way.

 

 

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Changing the formation was a mistake if we look at that game in isolation, but if that's how he's decided he wants to line up then we've just got to stick with it. There are going to be plenty of problems to iron out on the way.

 

 

 

That's fair.  To be honest I have no opinion of Rodgers or his intentions and I probably wont form one until next season.

 

Its beyond question now that this season is actually about nothing more than being safe in the PL.  We might get top half if we have an upturn in performances but thats it.

 

Be interesting to see if 3 at the back is his long term plan and what he goes for in the summer. 

[Bazly]

Lots of evident issues for BR to work on.

 

Kasper is still stuck on his line, his shot saving prowess is gone and his distribution appalling.

Wes, nothing new is too slow to tackle and can no longer compete in the air so what can he do?

Maguire seems to have lost interest, completely, so needs booting or rebooting.

Evans is so lazy on the ball his passes are 50:50 where they will end up.

Ndidi need to learn how to pass forward to a teammate.

Gray just needs some guidance when to do something and when not to do something, well lots of guidance actually.

Maddison needs to find an outlet that doesn't involve falling over Oka style.

 

The team really is a miss match of talent with no direction to those of little talent.

 

[FoxFossil]

Maybe, just maybe, the plan is for the team to be capable of playing different formations against different teams, or different home or away. Structure...yes. Inflexibility...no. 

[MonkeyTennis?]

I thought one thing that was striking was how p1ssed off with each other they were - Chilwell and Maguire had a shouting match at one point about ‘where the fvck am I supposed to pass it, there’s no-one there,’ etc, etc. That occurred a few times.  

 

I know how the game works on the pitch and how players speak to one another during play, but for me, what’s missing more than anything else is that sense of connection across the pitch - that players know and trust each other well enough to anticipate where the ball needs go, what sort of runs they will make. And its not just getting it to Vardy. At different points, they don’t work like a particularly well functioning unit, and don’t seem to trust each other enough. Hence the mistakes.

 

Vague stuff, I know, and hard to fix, but, in terms of man management, I think that’s as big a challenge for BR as well as dealing with the balance of power in the changing room. 

[lcfcell]

I think we need to remember Watford are having a very good season and their home form (I think) is genuinely very good, was always going to be tough, it wouldn’t be Leicester though if we didn’t throw away points 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

14 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

 

Already answered!

Edited 4 March 2019 by browniefox
.

[PloTok]

3 minutes ago, browniefox said:

A goalscorers arm can't be offside. Only goal scoring parts of the body can be offside. 

I'm enjoying this conversation. I'm waiting for VAR's ruling on a crotch bulge interfering with play.

[glen parva fox]

Didn't realise Puel had gone, looked exactly the same and exactly the same outcome. 

[Clever Fox]

10 hours ago, Line-X said:

He's been in charge for less than a week

Granted BR will need the summer to make his mark on the squad.

 

Kasper made some great saves, Watford took their chances well.

Yes he's a decent shot stopper, but it's his positioning and claiming of the ball is flawed.

Watford 2nd goal was similar to Vardy's injury challenge, why wasn't Keeper out to claim that ball like Foster was. That's the difference were talking about.

 

Disagree...we picked up some inevitable yellow, and Maguire in particular was lucky not to concede a penalty given that Moss penalised Wes for similarly holding against West Ham in 2016. 

That's the point. We're having to foul , when we need a bit more of a physical presence to just ease players out of the way. But also to show the opposition that their in for a tough battle against us.

 

10 hours ago, Line-X said:

Vards scored a classic Vards goal...based upon pace off the shoulder of the last man circa 2015/16

Yes it was classic Vardy but he's the only one with real pace we have. Gray also is quick.

But the rest are slow and move the ball slowly  which is why the opposition can get in position before we get a shot away. Pace comes in different forms.

Actually, as dull as the game was there were some very creative and promising moments. The through ball from Tielemans was exquisite and the goal was every bit worth the admission fee despite the loss. Also, Madders played some wonderfully placed balls into the box - which is precisely what we need. 

 

Agree. Evans simply needed to glance over his shoulder to avert the inevitable Deeney opener. 

Tielemans has everything we need as a CM...shame that the loan won't result in a permanent signing.

 

Pure speculation, but I would venture that Puel focussed on tactical play in training. Agree, the side seems beleaguered. Perhaps revisit the Jock Wallace sand dune method?

No it's definitely not speculation. It's visable if you've ever worked with players. Think back to the Pearson days. We're talking small margins but they make the difference.

 

Yes, you could say that, since he got the job on Wednesday was it?

No issues with BR of course he's going to need time.

 

Unless of course they make the changes that they were employed to do - being the general idea of sacking and installing new management. 

 

I'm not sure we looked "pretty" this afternoon, but as I said, there were some encouraging signs. 

We looked very pretty at times, but sometimes you need a bit of ugly also to win games.

 

Actually, retaining and utilising our existing nascent talent and our new managers demonstrable ability to nurture that is far more important than his worryingly erratic forays into the world of recruitment. 

 I said we needed to move out 14 players last summer we didn't and were paying the price now for not doing it.

We need to make sure we don't make the same mistakes again. We also need to sign top quality players who can fit right in. We have enough of promising talent to step in where needed in emergency.

All of course easier said than done. But I think BR has a higher profile for attracting players. So I'm hopeful he can plug the gaps.

 

Onwards and upwards we go.

 

[turtmcfly]

47 minutes ago, PloTok said:

I'm enjoying this conversation. I'm waiting for VAR's ruling on a crotch bulge interfering with play.

[Rusko187]

Was very encouraged by his post match interview to RL Leicester, offered insight into his thoughts and where he believed we failed. Each game has to be judged on it's own so I don't mean to sound like I'm nit picking but issues evident from that game for me were:

 

- Lacking another quality ball playing CB, be interested to see how Benkovic would look in a 3 centre back combo including Maguire and Evans (Evans being central)

- Desperately lacking steel in Midfield and in part up front. Tielemans has been great and one I'd like us to pursue but our midfield is seriously lightweight, think Ndidi either needs to bulk up or we need to look at giving Hamza a chance. Up front Vardy is lacking the service, will he pair better with a Deeney-esque player to really bully defences around? Maybe, for me if we're looking to bring in another striker I'm seriously thinking we need a good look at Mitrovic.

- Rodgers has to train out the passing and game management decisions, their inexperience is coming into question (strangely though the game was lost due to our senior players not managing the game).

- And finally need to move the ball quicker and stop dawdling with sidewards passing, too many times we allowed Watford to re-form and made it incredibly difficult for ourselves. It also feels as though we're trying to pass it into the net.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

6 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

Was very encouraged by his post match interview to RL Leicester, offered insight into his thoughts and where he believed we failed. Each game has to be judged on it's own so I don't mean to sound like I'm nit picking but issues evident from that game for me were:

 

- Lacking another quality ball playing CB, be interested to see how Benkovic would look in a 3 centre back combo including Maguire and Evans (Evans being central)

- Desperately lacking steel in Midfield and in part up front. Tielemans has been great and one I'd like us to pursue but our midfield is seriously lightweight, think Ndidi either needs to bulk up or we need to look at giving Hamza a chance. Up front Vardy is lacking the service, will he pair better with a Deeney-esque player to really bully defences around? Maybe, for me if we're looking to bring in another striker I'm seriously thinking we need a good look at Mitrovic.

- Rodgers has to train out the passing and game management decisions, their inexperience is coming into question (strangely though the game was lost due to our senior players not managing the game).

- And finally need to move the ball quicker and stop dawdling with sidewards passing, too many times we allowed Watford to re-form and made it incredibly difficult for ourselves. It also feels as though we're trying to pass it into the net.

Rodgers mentioned how Puel has developed this at the club and he said he wanted to continue on from this

Dont think he will be aiming for us to move away from improving in possession

Edited 4 March 2019 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[Rusko187]

3 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Rodgers mentioned how Puel has developed this at the club and he said he wanted to continue on from this

Dont think he will be aiming for us to move away from improving in possession

Sorry perhaps "train out" was poor choice of words, but make it more of a priority to improve. All for the style in which we're going for but need to be faster and more dynamic.

[murphy]

7 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

Your original quote was theres a top 6 and we are aiming to be best of the rest but we are the worst of the rest. 

 

Sorry that i didnt know you'd created your own little mini leagues within the league. It is common knowlege at all to do that. Who the **** is the established 7th-10th teams then? Lets see if you get it right for the end of the season.

No it wasn't.  Please don't rewrite my posts for me.  That is not what I wrote.  I never mentioned a top six and then the rest.

 

7th-12th teams, or our group are Wolves, Watford, Everton, Leicester, Bournemouth and West Ham, but I have already said that.

 

Perhaps I could have benn clearer but the funny thing is that 'worst of the rest' as you understood it is not that far wrong on current form.  We are 3rd bottom in the form table.

Edited 4 March 2019 by murphy

[Dames]

4 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Rodgers mentioned how Puel has developed this at the club and he said he wanted to continue on from this

Dont think he will be aiming for us to move away from improving in possession

I think he'll be aiming to coach out the possession for possessions sake of recycling the ball to keep it defensively.

 

All his teams have been good with the ball so I don't expect to see a drastic shift but its going to take a few games before we see any notable improvements.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, Dames said:

I think he'll be aiming to coach out the possession for possessions sake of recycling the ball to keep it defensively.

 

All his teams have been good with the ball so I don't expect to see a drastic shift but its going to take a few games before we see any notable improvements.

Aye possibly

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, Liverpool friends of mine said that in his first season there was a lot of possession and they werent doing much with it, until the second season where it improved (they added this may have been due to a few players such as Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling etc..)

 

From what I gather he won't be going too far away from what we've seen under Puel, football philosophy wise.  Obviously hopefully we improve and become more dynamic

[TMELcfc]

A big positive for me from yesterday, and that was the manager said afterwards...

 

He pointed out things we’ve said rather than cover it with tripe or poor English...  he said along the lines of - “poor game management, passing was too slow first half, got to get players closer to Vardy, good signs but lots to improve on...” roughly speaking. Obviously he’s just scratching the surface in post game interviews, but that was refreshing to hear. 

I trust him to improve us and actually show the players the errors they make, in a sensible, constructive way but also won’t be afraid to pull ‘star players’ up on it. And my god some of them need it...

 

Said it before, it’ll probably get worse before it gets better, but I trust him to improve us. 

[lgfualol]

The players just need to ****ing move about instead of standing still behind the other teams' players. If Rodgers can sort this out then life's good. When you watch others teams there is so much movement, we pass the ball forward, everyone stands still, pass backwards, sideways and repeat. Yesterday's formation managed to highlight how bad it is, Vardy needs to stretch defences again for it to work. Luckily him standing next to the CBs all match actually got us a goal.

[murphy]

8 minutes ago, Dames said:

I think he'll be aiming to coach out the possession for possessions sake of recycling the ball to keep it defensively.

 

All his teams have been good with the ball so I don't expect to see a drastic shift but its going to take a few games before we see any notable improvements.

That is not what Celtic fans have been saying.  One criticism I have heard that if he will play backwards to keep possession rather than take the riskier forward pass.

 

Whatever we end up like under BR, we start from scratch.  Again.  I am sick of us being a team perpetually in transition.

[norwichfox]

5 minutes ago, lcfceaves said:

A big positive for me from yesterday, and that was the manager said afterwards...

 

He pointed out things we’ve said rather than cover it with tripe or poor English...  he said along the lines of - “poor game management, passing was too slow first half, got to get players closer to Vardy, good signs but lots to improve on...” roughly speaking. Obviously he’s just scratching the surface in post game interviews, but that was refreshing to hear. 

I trust him to improve us and actually show the players the errors they make, in a sensible, constructive way but also won’t be afraid to pull ‘star players’ up on it. And my god some of them need it...

 

Said it before, it’ll probably get worse before it gets better, but I trust him to improve us. 

Frankly, I couldn't give 2 fcuks for the manager PR bit before or after a game, what matters is the performance of the team, and once again it was utter sh1te. Rodgers out

[Manini]

21 minutes ago, norwichfox said:

Frankly, I couldn't give 2 fcuks for the manager PR bit before or after a game, what matters is the performance of the team, and once again it was utter sh1te. Rodgers out

Who would your pick be? Manager wise? 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

21 minutes ago, norwichfox said:

Frankly, I couldn't give 2 fcuks for the manager PR bit before or after a game, what matters is the performance of the team, and once again it was utter sh1te. Rodgers out

Embarrassing post if serious! Can I ask what sort of revolution in our playing style you expected in 4 days?

[funkyrobot]

2 hours ago, MonkeyTennis? said:

I thought one thing that was striking was how p1ssed off with each other they were - Chilwell and Maguire had a shouting match at one point about ‘where the fvck am I supposed to pass it, there’s no-one there,’ etc, etc. That occurred a few times.  

 

I know how the game works on the pitch and how players speak to one another during play, but for me, what’s missing more than anything else is that sense of connection across the pitch - that players know and trust each other well enough to anticipate where the ball needs go, what sort of runs they will make. And its not just getting it to Vardy. At different points, they don’t work like a particularly well functioning unit, and don’t seem to trust each other enough. Hence the mistakes.

 

Vague stuff, I know, and hard to fix, but, in terms of man management, I think that’s as big a challenge for BR as well as dealing with the balance of power in the changing room. 

Yeh I noticed Chilwell and Maguire arguing a couple of times as well as Chilwell having a go at Barnes previously and I also saw a bit of Chilwell throwing his arms up and moaning Slimani style. Seems to have coincided with a real loss of form for both players.