The VAR thread

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

And another thing - yesterday VAR was being interpreted like it was last season. The minor details being slowed down and studied from every angle. If you have to do that - and end up going against on field decision - it probably isn’t clear and obvious!

Absolutely 

 

1 hour ago, He aint bald said:

i think he thought Madders was a goner

if madders has a broken leg then it’s a sending off on var recommendation- it’s just wrong that the outcome dictates the call 

 

the var should only get involved for absolute howlers - ie.  no contact on pens that are given or handballs that are decisive plus pens which are inside/outside, and offsides on goals. If a player is scythed down and the ref thinks the defender has got a touch( and he clearly hasn’t) then that’s a clear and obvious error - last nights tangle of legs is probably a foul, possibly not a foul - what it isn’t is a howler not to give it -  michael  Oliver may be a good on field ref but he’s a sh1t var ……

[tom27111]

I'll get absolute pelters for this, but VAR called everything right yesterday.

 

Take off your blue tinted specs and imagine those calls were made the other way round. 

 

However, I do believe we deserved more than a point.

[foxinsocks]

8 hours ago, tom27111 said:

I'll get absolute pelters for this, but VAR called everything right yesterday.

 

Take off your blue tinted specs and imagine those calls were made the other way round. 

 

However, I do believe we deserved more than a point.

Agree... but in the pl the var isn't about truth (as I would like it to be) it is to intervene if an error is "clear and obvious".  While this is mad... it was the choice of the epl.  

I don't think the var should have intervened in the goal... (and they didn't in the case of the potential red for mactominay).

In rugby the tmo deals in truth... the refs accept it.

The epl refs need to get over themselves. 

Edited 3 April 2022 by foxinsocks

[Houdini Logic]

VAR is far from perfect but at least the decisions are debatable at worst.

 

Sod going back to the day when you concede to a hand ball or score a perfectly good goal only for the linesman to incorrectly flag offside. I think it's too easy to forget those days...

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

Agree... but in the pl the var usbt about truth (as I would like it to be) it is to intervene if an error is clear and obvious.  While this is mad... ot was the choice of the epl.  

I dont think the var shoukd have intervened...and they didnt in the case of the potential red for mactominay.

In rugby the tmo deals in truth... the refs accept it.

The epl refs need to get over themselves. 

In rugby, the tmo is there to correct the ref as the game is ongoing. Eg. He will call offsides if the ref misses it.  once there is a try, the tmo will advise if anything needs to be reviewed and if so, the ref and tmo will go through the incidents leading up to the try and also the try itself if there is any dispute. Decisions are made based on what the laws are and situations are effectively re reffed - a 50/50 will generally stick with the on field call but 40/60 ones will be corrected.  That’s not supposed to happen with var - decisions should only be overturned if it’s a 90/10 or higher call . the on field decision should be kept to as much as possible unless it’s a howler.  
 

gallagher will be on sky tomorrow and justify the decision to rule out the goal - because it suits him to always protect the ref and var. 

 

on other occasions he will go full circle and justify the var not getting involved 

 

it’s so inconsistent 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Houdini Logic said:

VAR is far from perfect but at least the decisions are debatable at worst.

 

Sod going back to the day when you concede to a hand ball or score a perfectly good goal only for the linesman to incorrectly flag offside. I think it's too easy to forget those days...

Exactly - just use it for those certain incorrect decisions then! 

[foxinsocks]

Just now, st albans fox said:

In rugby, the tmo is there to correct the ref as the game is ongoing. Eg. He will call offsides if the ref misses it.  once there is a try, the tmo will advise if anything needs to be reviewed and if so, the ref and tmo will go through the incidents leading up to the try and also the try itself if there is any dispute. Decisions are made based on what the laws are and situations are effectively re reffed - a 50/50 will generally stick with the on field call but 40/60 ones will be corrected.  That’s not supposed to happen with var - decisions should only be overturned if it’s a 90/10 or higher call . the on field decision should be kept to as much as possible unless it’s a howler.  
 

gallagher will be on sky tomorrow and justify the decision to rule out the goal - because it suits him to always protect the ref and var. 

 

on other occasions he will go full circle and justify the var not getting involved 

 

it’s so inconsistent 

Agree. Rugby hit it right.

I think I know why this happened.

[foxfan92]

It's been said before but I'd really welcome an open commentary between the officials that everyone can hear, like we get in rugby. It's going on privately anyway so wouldn't take any longer to do, and would hopefully ensure there's no perceived bias, because if they talk one way about one incident on the pitch, they'd have to review similar incidents identically.

 

Additionally, over time, it should hopefully bring better consistency, since the decisions refs are making can be reviewed clearly when the refs meet to review their rules and procedures. 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, foxinsocks said:

Agree. Rugby hit it right.

I think I know why this happened.

If you want football to use var as rugby use the tmo then you have to alter the laws to allow it. But ruby is a game of 80 minutes which now lasts between 90 and 100 mins from kick off to final whistle 

 

you will have to accept that football games will k off at 3 and end at about five past five …..  and goal celebrations will become more and more muted ……..

[Super_horns]

I think fans would like to hear more communication and understand the decisions better but doesn’t mean they will agree or accept them of course .

[RonnieTodger]

VAR will never improve football. It’s been in mainstream football for 4 years now and it’s ****ing awful. It’s also an absolute myth that it works well abroad.

 

“It’s not VAR’s fault, it’s the people using it!”. The people using it are what VAR is. It’s not a robot making the decisions.

 

Anything open to interpretation will have grey areas and we’ll end up with the same contention that we did before. Only now we have to wait 5 minutes for it. 
 

Even offsides are shit. What’s the point in linesmen now? To give corners and throw ins? 
 

Now we just celebrate like twats until they intervene and ruin what makes football great.

 

I think it’s overused in Rugby and it only works well in cricket/tennis because they’re not free-flowing sports. 

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

VAR will never improve football. It’s been in mainstream football for 4 years now and it’s ****ing awful. It’s also an absolute myth that it works well abroad.

 

“It’s not VAR’s fault, it’s the people using it!”. The people using it are what VAR is. It’s not a robot making the decisions.

 

Anything open to interpretation will have grey areas and we’ll end up with the same contention that we did before. Only now we have to wait 5 minutes for it. 
 

Even offsides are shit. What’s the point in linesmen now? To give corners and throw ins? 
 

Now we just celebrate like twats until they intervene and ruin what makes football great.

 

I think it’s overused in Rugby and it only works well in cricket/tennis because they’re not free-flowing sports. 

The only way for VAR to work fully is to hand it over to AI and remove any subjectivity from it.

 

And no, it’s not a baby step to SkyNet before anyone starts.  

Edited 3 April 2022 by Dahnsouff

[foxinsocks]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The only way for VAR to work fully is to hand it over to AI and remove any subjectivity from it.

 

And no, it’s not a baby step to SkyNet before anyone starts.  

If the ai was trained on pl games it would learn bias towards the top 6

[bovril]

12 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

VAR will never improve football. It’s been in mainstream football for 4 years now and it’s ****ing awful. It’s also an absolute myth that it works well abroad.

 

“It’s not VAR’s fault, it’s the people using it!”. The people using it are what VAR is. It’s not a robot making the decisions.

 

Anything open to interpretation will have grey areas and we’ll end up with the same contention that we did before. Only now we have to wait 5 minutes for it. 
 

Even offsides are shit. What’s the point in linesmen now? To give corners and throw ins? 
 

Now we just celebrate like twats until they intervene and ruin what makes football great.

 

I think it’s overused in Rugby and it only works well in cricket/tennis because they’re not free-flowing sports. 

I don't even really celebrate that much anymore, especially when listening on the radio. Which is the crappest thing about it. 

[Guest Col city fan]

Fundamentally, I think that getting decisions right has to be the correct thing

But I STILL hate VAR. It’s ruined so many goal celebrations. I literally darent celebrate a goal anymore. The neural pathway has well and truly opened which says: don’t celebrate yet, it’ll be looked at

That can’t be a good thing. That spontaneous burst of happiness and excitement being stopped time and time again. 
I wonder what clinical psychologists would make of it cos it must have some detrimental effect on the psyche.

[mikey_b]

1 hour ago, tom27111 said:

I'll get absolute pelters for this, but VAR called everything right yesterday.

 

Take off your blue tinted specs and imagine those calls were made the other way round. 

 

However, I do believe we deserved more than a point.

I’ll find a way to blame var every week  but felt it was fine yesterday. I do think it has bias towards top teams, do we think for a minute if that Liverpool pen yesterday was at any other non top 6 team they’d look at it hard enough to notice that pull?

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, tom27111 said:

I'll get absolute pelters for this, but VAR called everything right yesterday.

 

Take off your blue tinted specs and imagine those calls were made the other way round. 

 

However, I do believe we deserved more than a point.

That's the whole point, Tom. Those calls wouldn't have been made the other way round. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention. 

[messerschmitt]

8 minutes ago, mikey_b said:

I’ll find a way to blame var every week  but felt it was fine yesterday. I do think it has bias towards top teams, do we think for a minute if that Liverpool pen yesterday was at any other non top 6 team they’d look at it hard enough to notice that pull?

Absolutely spot on. Watched the game at the time and said we've had loads when one of our players has been pulled down, attacking a corner and when did we ever get a penalty.

[Lambert09]

4 hours ago, jmono84 said:

Can you post a clip? I’m fuming thinking about this!

@majaco Here's the clip for all.   What I will say, when viewing it again you could argue Maguire stops playing so may have made the interception but as its Maguire... probably not 

 

"Done by VAR twice in 10 seconds, you cant sing that"

Edited 3 April 2022 by Lambert09

[messerschmitt]

3 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

That's the whole point, Tom. Those calls wouldn't have been made the other way round. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention. 

Again spot on, A leicester player does that tackle at Old Trafford its a red card and no one says anything. Man U score that Maddison goal and it's back to the center 2.1 with the pundits saying it's a 50/50 challenge not enough to give a foul.

[messerschmitt]

5 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

@majaco Here's the clip for all.   What I will say, when viewing it again you could argue Maguire stops playing so may have made the interception but as its Maguire... probably not 

 

"Done by VAR twice in 10 seconds, you cant sing that"

 

How can you notice "maguire stops playing" when did he start?

[leicsmac]

Perhaps this is a rather too clinical way of looking at it, but for me the success or failure of VAR solely hinges on whether or not it is more accurate at preventing "wrong" decisions than humans would be without it.

 

Given that the offsides matter is (most of the time) objective without considering anything else, then I think that it stands to reason that it is more accurate.

 

However, when it comes to subjective matters like handballs and other fouls, there's rather clearly an issue there which means it is little better than the system it was designed to replace, and therefore needs looking at. Perhaps either a clearer delineation of the rules on such things, allowing a challenge system where a captain can only call upon it a certain amount of times, or binning it for that matter altogether. Or a combination of the first two.

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Perhaps either a clearer delineation of the rules on such things,

They're doing that every season in fact during the season and almost every time they do it it makes it worse or even more subjective.

How many times have they changed the handball law?

[He aint bald]

52 minutes ago, davieG said:

They're doing that every season in fact during the season and almost every time they do it it makes it worse or even more subjective.

How many times have they changed the handball law?

We managed the handball rule perfectly well in the playground 50 years ago with no ref. 

The accidental rule..... unnatural positioning was implicit.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

They're doing that every season in fact during the season and almost every time they do it it makes it worse or even more subjective.

How many times have they changed the handball law?

It's a fair point.

 

If the rules can't be clearly delineated and quantified, then VAR probably shouldn't be used for it at all.