The VAR thread

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

I agree they implement video technology better (they first introduced it around twenty years ago so they've had a long time to tweak it), but I still think they've overdone it. Rugby matches are now pretty much all lasting longer than two hours. I preferred watching it when they could only use the TMO in the act of scoring. Now they can go multiple phases back to find a reason to disallow a try. 

The TMO also advises the ref during the game of penalty offences he has missed   - the ref is no longer responsible for making all the big calls as the game progresses.  There is also no ‘clear and obvious’ error correction.  The idea is that the game is in effect re refereed on the big calls to arrive at the correct decision. There is less subjectivity in the laws of rugby. football is trying to keep the on field referee as the main arbiter. 

[Aus Fox]

VAR has had an absolute nightmare again this weekend. I cannot believe there is anyone out there now who thinks this has improved our game in any way what do ever.

Kane should have been sent off, no question.

Liverpool and Newcastle both had stonewall penalties not given.

It’s now beyond a joke and it’s having a negative impact on the game - every single week and all we want is some consistency. 
Either using the technology available correctly or don’t use it at all.

[CrispinLA in Texas]

21 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

VAR has had an absolute nightmare again this weekend. I cannot believe there is anyone out there now who thinks this has improved our game in any way what do ever.

Kane should have been sent off, no question.

Liverpool and Newcastle both had stonewall penalties not given.

It’s now beyond a joke and it’s having a negative impact on the game - every single week and all we want is some consistency. 
Either using the technology available correctly or don’t use it at all.

It's not VAR that's the problem, it's the joker in the VAR studio and the ref on the pitch that's the problem. EPL needs more Aussie ref's like Jarrod Gillett

[cruzFOX]

Time for a proverbial 'circuit breaker' on VAR. The people operating are useless and either need more training, disciplinary action for incompetence or the the whole system put on the back burner until the whole refereeing association can sort themselves out. Its beyond stupidity now and seriously ruining the game as we know it. Its lost all credibility IMO and cannot continue. VAR and refs are all clearly covering up for each others cockups thats plain to see. Need an independent panel so there is no conflict of interest. I'm fed up as are most fans.

[ozleicester]

It is a game of fine margins and opinions.

VAR has NOT  (and cannot) fixed the problems, just destroyed the moment.

Play football or Playstation... not both.

[Super_horns]

3 hours ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

It's not VAR that's the problem, it's the joker in the VAR studio and the ref on the pitch that's the problem. EPL needs more Aussie ref's like Jarrod Gillett

Based on his performance in our game v Newcastle keep him off the pitch but that was his first game and was quite a physical one to ref.  

 

Does seem to an a element of trying not to upset the on field ref and making his change a decision.

 

 

Edited 20 December 2021 by Super_horns

[st albans fox]

5 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

VAR has had an absolute nightmare again this weekend. I cannot believe there is anyone out there now who thinks this has improved our game in any way what do ever.

Kane should have been sent off, no question.

Liverpool and Newcastle both had stonewall penalties not given.

It’s now beyond a joke and it’s having a negative impact on the game - every single week and all we want is some consistency. 
Either using the technology available correctly or don’t use it at all.

Is there anyone on here who doesn’t think that 

a) jota was a pen 

b) Fraser was a pen

c) Kane deserved a red 

 

 

[when_you're_smiling]

32 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Is there anyone on here who doesn’t think that 

a) jota was a pen 

b) Fraser was a pen

c) Kane deserved a red 

 

 

Guess I’m old school, but thought yellow was fine for Kane. It wasn’t that high on the leg and clumsy rather than malicious.

 

It annoys me now it’s meant to be a red card every time you slightly mis-time a slide tackle. 

[SemperEadem]

It really has turned me off football largely in a big way.

[Bert]

16 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Guess I’m old school, but thought yellow was fine for Kane. It wasn’t that high on the leg and clumsy rather than malicious.

 

It annoys me now it’s meant to be a red card every time you slightly mis-time a slide tackle. 

Kane is a red all day long. The speed, the force, studs up, out of control. I don’t know how they’ve not applied the laws of the game to this one. Oh wait. He’s the England captain. 

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Bert said:

Kane is a red all day long. The speed, the force, studs up, out of control. I don’t know how they’ve not applied the laws of the game to this one. Oh wait. He’s the England captain. 

I asked the question because it has to be a clear error for var to overturn 

if we have people on here that disagree then it can’t be a clear error ???

VAR is not there to re referee the game nor ask the on field ref to re ref the game ….

 

Hence the idea that var is there to get decisions ‘right’ is also incorrect.  There are many decisions that are neither right nor wrong. The bar to change an on field decision has to be very high according to the way var is now used here. 

Edited 20 December 2021 by st albans fox

[Aus Fox]

20 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I asked the question because it has to be a clear error for var to overturn 

if we have people on here that disagree then it can’t be a clear error ???

VAR is not there to re referee the game nor ask the on field ref to re ref the game ….

 

Hence the idea that var is there to get decisions ‘right’ is also incorrect.  There are many decisions that are neither right nor wrong. The bar to change an on field decision has to be very high according to the way var is now used here. 

And that’s the problem with VAR in a nutshell. By every law within the game Kane’s a red card. 
If VAR is not there to get decisions right, then it’s not fit for purpose.

Both penalties yesterday should have been given no question and Kane is a red - to make matters worse VAR later gives a red card to Robertson.

In one instance the referee is asked to look again at the screen and the other he isn’t. 
Where’s the consistency?

[Bert]

34 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I asked the question because it has to be a clear error for var to overturn 

if we have people on here that disagree then it can’t be a clear error ???

VAR is not there to re referee the game nor ask the on field ref to re ref the game ….

 

Hence the idea that var is there to get decisions ‘right’ is also incorrect.  There are many decisions that are neither right nor wrong. The bar to change an on field decision has to be very high according to the way var is now used here. 

It is a clear error. So if one person says it isn’t that means it shouldn’t be over turned? As discussed before, a lot of it is conjecture. The most worrying thing is that the referees seem to back up their mates to try and save face. There’s never going to be a situation where everyone agrees, ever. 

[messerschmitt]

13 minutes ago, Bert said:

It is a clear error. So if one person says it isn’t that means it shouldn’t be over turned? As discussed before, a lot of it is conjecture. The most worrying thing is that the referees seem to back up their mates to try and save face. There’s never going to be a situation where everyone agrees, ever. 

Yeah can't wait for the Dermot the clown show

[Flappit]

58 minutes ago, Bert said:

Kane is a red all day long. The speed, the force, studs up, out of control. I don’t know how they’ve not applied the laws of the game to this one. Oh wait. He’s the England captain. 

Similar vibes to this classic moment....

 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Bert said:

It is a clear error. So if one person says it isn’t that means it shouldn’t be over turned? As discussed before, a lot of it is conjecture. The most worrying thing is that the referees seem to back up their mates to try and save face. There’s never going to be a situation where everyone agrees, ever. 

I’m yet to see or hear anyone claim the kane challenge isn’t a clear error (apart from the one post on here - is that a 100% disagreement then ?) 

 

I have heard a few backing the jota on field call so that’s not a clear and obvious error 

 

I hate VAR - never wanted it and predicted some of the crap it’s caused

 

bit the clubs want it so it isn’t going anywhere …..

[5waller5]

On 09/11/2021 at 19:24, st albans fox said:

The TMO also advises the ref during the game of penalty offences he has missed   - the ref is no longer responsible for making all the big calls as the game progresses.  There is also no ‘clear and obvious’ error correction.  The idea is that the game is in effect re refereed on the big calls to arrive at the correct decision. There is less subjectivity in the laws of rugby. football is trying to keep the on field referee as the main arbiter. 

I agreed with all of this until here …. Rugby is way more subjective than football IMHO 

[Foxdiamond]

10 hours ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

It's not VAR that's the problem, it's the joker in the VAR studio and the ref on the pitch that's the problem. EPL needs more Aussie ref's like Jarrod Gillett

Spot on. Can't help but wonder if Vardy would only gotten a yellow without reference to looking at the screen. A real cynical person might even suggest a straight red by the ref? Kane was very lucky or was it favoured??

[Pliskin]

11 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

VAR has had an absolute nightmare again this weekend. I cannot believe there is anyone out there now who thinks this has improved our game in any way what do ever.

Kane should have been sent off, no question.

Liverpool and Newcastle both had stonewall penalties not given.

It’s now beyond a joke and it’s having a negative impact on the game - every single week and all we want is some consistency. 
Either using the technology available correctly or don’t use it at all.

I think VAR as a system works, but what it is doing is just highlighting what the real issue is, like you say…. The referees. 
 

They’re shit, the level of refereeing in this league (and sport in general) is appalling. Like you elude to, how can referees have two identical decisions (in a lot of cases) and have different outcomes for both? The sport has rules, how on Earth can they be getting decisions so wrong still? 
 

The lack of transparency is also an issue, but I think the PL are worried that it would just highlight how inconsistent and in some cases incompetent the officials are. Officials are still officiating with a bias or a personal interpretation of the rules, they either need retraining or the PL need to get ensure that the rules are followed, so stick a mic under the refs nose and let us all hear their rationale, that way it should hopefully reduce the number of lazy decisions. It needs to be used more like TMO, once the officials start officiating properly, VAR will start to be used properly.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Appropriately scathing analysis of decisions on MOTD. But I think the big question that’s missing is, on all these decisions: 

 

Is the VAR in agreement with the on field decision? In which case, how the hell can another room of officials, with benefit of replays come to same conclusion!? 

 

OR

 

If the VAR disagrees, why and how did they not feel able to overturn/refer to the monitor? Way more transparency needed on the ‘clear and obvious’ rule - what it really constitutes and where the threshold is set

[cruzFOX]

For me the sheer number of shocking inconsistent and incorrect decisions is all pointing to a major inquisition needed into WTF is going on. If not - this calamity is going to continue. With the high number of games this season and the fixture schedule compounded by covid and injuries the stakes are just getting higher and higher. Last thing we need is a farce of a refereeing system. Premier league's saving grace at the moment is the high quality of football and drama making it the most entertaining league to watch in the world. When we are seeing this much human error in refereeing the game the FA needs to sort it out quickly but they probably can't do anything meaningful or impactful until the end of the season when there is a break. The lack of transparency is HUGE there is no official match responses from the association, no one we can put in front of the camera, no one who will take the blame its like a govt cover up. They are untouchable. Managers can't be too critical of them otherwise they get repremanded. All these big headed plonkers that are now celebrity ex refs are still in on it constantly covering up for their mates still doing the job. If fans haven't lost all respect, confidence and credibility for the organization than what are they supposed to think?

[Fox92]

12 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

VAR has had an absolute nightmare again this weekend. I cannot believe there is anyone out there now who thinks this has improved our game in any way what do ever.

Kane should have been sent off, no question.

Liverpool and Newcastle both had stonewall penalties not given.

It’s now beyond a joke and it’s having a negative impact on the game - every single week and all we want is some consistency. 
Either using the technology available correctly or don’t use it at all.

Because the refs are shit. I've said it all along but if they're inconsistent on the pitch then putting them in front of a screen won't make them any better, they're still gonna make poor decisions.

[Les-TA-Jon]

13 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Because the refs are shit. I've said it all along but if they're inconsistent on the pitch then putting them in front of a screen won't make them any better, they're still gonna make poor decisions.

This. 
 

Without VAR what happens yesterday? 
 

The ref only books Kane, doesn’t give a stonewall pen for Jota and only books Robertson. 3 key decisions incorrect. 
 

So far, all VAR is doing is eradicating offside goals and highlighting just how bad the current crop of officials are, because even with benefit of Video they are making baffling decisions 

[Corky]

Kane's challenge didn't look as bad as it could've been because Robertson didn't have his leg planted. Had it been he would've been in real trouble.

[Super_horns]

It worked well int he Euros generally - unless you are Welsh.

 

Is that just because the officials were of a higher  quality and used the system better.