The VAR thread

[jammie82uk]

5 hours ago, st albans fox said:

But that’s not the way PGMOL/premier league are using it this season 
 

i suppose this will change for next season - whether that dangling foot will be far enough offside to be judged ok with the ‘margin for error’ remains to be seen but it will still involve still frames and excruciating examination to see if it is! 

my view -  if the player visually looks level on still frame then it’s onside ....only one look needed, no multiple lines and that would have been a goal last night 

 

completely agree if you can’t tell if the player is onside or not then the onfield Decision stands 

[st albans fox]

58 minutes ago, justfoxes said:

Wolves fans I know are still whinging saying he wasn’t off side even tho the linesman had a great view from where he was standing and VAR confirmed that he was offside !

The lino didn’t give it ?

[RumbleFox]

VAR needs tweaks but the offside spazzing out I cannot understand.  You are either off or not and VAR gives us the most definitive answer yet.  Sure it is annoying and it feels unfair but I have seen so many games where a goal was given that was waaaay offside or ruled out when well on which must be worse surely?  I can't see how else it could be done?  Maybe settle on a specific body part but you are either off or not, even if a mm?

[justfoxes]

24 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

The lino didn’t give it ?

I thought he flagged him that’s why it went to VAR

[st albans fox]

52 minutes ago, justfoxes said:

I thought he flagged him that’s why it went to VAR

Nope

 

but all goals are reviewed by var anyway. If he had flagged him then the cross wouldn’t have been contested as Dean would have blown up in that situation ....

no way could the lino have seen that decision with the players foot being so close to his touch line 

[Clever Fox]

It's certainly here to stay so I think it's going to end up with one rule or type of Offside for the Professional Game were Var is available and another for games were it isn't available etc.

 

It seems the simplest answer is the make the Feet the Body part that has to be onside no matter how small the margin. In a standing position you can only lean over so much in any direction.

Then it's a simple decision like last night . It's either onside or offside. The margin becomes 

[Phube]

6 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

It's certainly here to stay so I think it's going to end up with one rule or type of Offside for the Professional Game were Var is available and another for games were it isn't available etc.

 

It seems the simplest answer is the make the Feet the Body part that has to be onside no matter how small the margin. In a standing position you can only lean over so much in any direction.

Then it's a simple decision like last night . It's either onside or offside. The margin becomes 

But the law is the same now and always. Just the ability to be correct is at the higher level, just like goal line tech!

[Clever Fox]

18 hours ago, Phube said:

But the law is the same now and always. Just the ability to be correct is at the higher level, just like goal line tech!

Yes agreed, The problem is though someone can be offside by sticking out there arms or elbows for balance. Which is why I think the Feet is possibly the best marker to go by. It can be used in all levels of the game, Even though there would be no Var, Just the Referees opinion.

Whats coming I'd say is that the Pitch will be electronically graphed and the Camera's will be able to identify every players position on the pitch flagging up when someone is offside automatically.

But that's a while off yet. 

[red5]

1 hour ago, Clever Fox said:

Yes agreed, The problem is though someone can be offside by sticking out there arms or elbows for balance. Which is why I think the Feet is possibly the best marker to go by. It can be used in all levels of the game, Even though there would be no Var, Just the Referees opinion.

Whats coming I'd say is that the Pitch will be electronically graphed and the Camera's will be able to identify every players position on the pitch flagging up when someone is offside automatically.

But that's a while off yet. 

[Leeds Fox]

It was a very tight offside call but if they are using a training ground routine like that, one of the main elements is getting back into an onside position. It really isn’t that difficult for the player playing the ball to wait until the corner taker is back onside. It’s a fundamental part of that routine. 

Edited 16 February 2020 by Leeds Fox

[st albans fox]

Just now, Leeds Fox said:

It was a very tight offside call but if they are using a training ground routine like that, one of the main elements is getting back into an onside position. It really isn’t that difficult for the player playing the ball to wait until the corner taker is back onside. It’s a fundamental part of that routine. 

This incident could make short corner routines quite interesting regarding how defences might deal with them ..... as you say, it certainly magnifies the onus on the taker to get back onside 

[Leeds Fox]

On 15/02/2020 at 17:01, Clever Fox said:

It's certainly here to stay so I think it's going to end up with one rule or type of Offside for the Professional Game were Var is available and another for games were it isn't available etc.

 

It seems the simplest answer is the make the Feet the Body part that has to be onside no matter how small the margin. In a standing position you can only lean over so much in any direction.

Then it's a simple decision like last night . It's either onside or offside. The margin becomes 

Feet are probably the most difficult part of the body to use as a reference as they’re the body part that are moving the fastest.  The ball leaving the players boot is already a contentious factor, using feet alone will make it even more ambiguous. 

[ealingfox]

Was definitely a penalty on Maddison btw.

[Clever Fox]

9 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

Feet are probably the most difficult part of the body to use as a reference as they’re the body part that are moving the fastest.  The ball leaving the players boot is already a contentious factor, using feet alone will make it even more ambiguous. 

That's a fair point, I still think as one or both feet are connected to the ground then it's still the best reference point to use. It could read.  at least one standing foot must be onside.

But I guess it's all supposition at this stage. We'll have to wait to see what they come up with.

[Leeds Fox]

On 15/02/2020 at 15:08, justfoxes said:

I thought he flagged him that’s why it went to VAR

Every goal is VAR checked for offside. Assistants have been instructed to keep their flags down unless it’s a clear offside.

 

[Leeds Fox]

1 hour ago, Clever Fox said:

That's a fair point, I still think as one or both feet are connected to the ground then it's still the best reference point to use. It could read.  at least one standing foot must be onside.

But I guess it's all supposition at this stage. We'll have to wait to see what they come up with.

In principle it seems the ideal reference point, in practice it’s probably the hardest to make consistent decisions. 
 

Also, I think you’d be surprised how little someone’s feet are on the ground while they’re running. Granted they are the closest body part to it, not wanting to split hairs. VAR could be very good but it’s going to take some time to get there, and probably some extra technology to fine tune it. 

Edited 16 February 2020 by Leeds Fox

[oxford blue]

I've previously posted about the difficulties of being exact with offside as there are not sufficient frames per second. In this instance, there is less room for argument as it was at a much slower speed than a player breaking free of a defensive line when he may be close to his top speed. Having said that, City were very lucky to have that goal ruled out; there has to be a greater margin in these decisions. VAR can be helpful, but it needs to be reviewed - as it will be - for next season. It can't have many advocated currently.

[pleatout]

4 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

Yes agreed, The problem is though someone can be offside by sticking out there arms or elbows for balance. Which is why I think the Feet is possibly the best marker to go by. It can be used in all levels of the game, Even though there would be no Var, Just the Referees opinion.

Whats coming I'd say is that the Pitch will be electronically graphed and the Camera's will be able to identify every players position on the pitch flagging up when someone is offside automatically.

But that's a while off yet. 

Arms/hands dont count.  Head, torso and legs.  Only parts of the body that you can play the ball with.  It's always been like that from sunday league to world cup final.

 

[Clever Fox]

11 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Arms/hands dont count.  Head, torso and legs.  Only parts of the body that you can play the ball with.  It's always been like that from sunday league to world cup final.

 

Yes agreed,  But wasn't a goal disallowed by an Ear or a Nose a while ago and another by top of the Arm where it joins the Shoulder.  

 

We'll just have to wait and see what changes they make. I'm sure they will be for the better and will bring more clarity.

[CosbehFox]

Dean Smith’s shown himself up today. 

[FantasticMrFox&Son]

Tonight's Maguire/Batshuayi incident and the VAR review seems to me yet another example of how poor the standard of refereeing is, on and off the pitch in the PL.

Call me cynical but maybe the boys in black have a pact not to show one another up for their poor decision making.

Before VAR we had to accept that at full speed the ref might get a few calls wrong.

Now, with VAR, we are seeing how many mistakes are being made, and not many are being overturned.

 

[Aus Fox]

Hmm another VAR thread, I think all of this has been discussed in the other one many times.

[Stinkenzo]

I've only seen the slow motion GIF of the Maguire thing in the other thread but that incident is surely a case of deciding whether its intentional or not? The slow-mo makes me believe it isn't. Maybe slightly biased as its Maguire and you wouldn't think its intentional whereas an Aurier/Son it might be. So thats opinion, not factual like an offside decision.

[FantasticMrFox&Son]

And Fred pushes Azpilicueta into Williams, and Azpilicueta is punished ??

These guys are just being exposed as incompetent, or worse, bent.

[st albans fox]

Tonight has shown how the var (there are three I think) are still incapable of giving correct decisions - so what’s the point in having it ??