Corona Virus

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Its absolutely nothing to do with Tory cuts or any of that crap FFS grow up with this political posturing bollocks at a time like this! Jesus wept! Some people..... and it really shows what kind of people need to take a long hard look at themselves. (Hint it ain't tories)

 

This is a global pandemic, governments across the globe are in uncharted territory, no amount of money or planning could prepare sufficiently for this. Governments are run by humans, they will get things wrong, they may need to change paths, but the genuinely do want the best for all of us. Just look at Belgiums death rates, far higher tax and social support than here, has that fixed it? No.

 

 

...and yet, some countries did prepare for it and have weathered the storm well.

 

New Zealand, Japan, Korea to name but three.

 

NB. Forgive me for saying that I doubt the same tune regarding "governments want the best for all of us" would be being sung if the current UK government happened to wear a different colour rosette.

[Beechey]

1 hour ago, The whole world smiles said:

I'm no expert on all this so happy to be proved wrong by a more knowledgeable poster. but surely after inflation and huge population growth in the last 10 years this equals quite a significant real time cut.

 

Also (again I'm no expert) but didn't they roll the social care budget into the NHS budget so that money had to go an awful lot further?

No, real terms includes inflation. So the line plotted on the graph I provided takes inflation into account.

Population is another matter that can't easily be plotted when considering absolute investments. Maybe if the plotted line was in per capita real-terms...

Edited 17 April 2020 by Beechey

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

I find it all a bit odd seeing people I know voted for tory cuts and Brexit clapping to show 'support' for the NHS.

What a completely sane and well made point, well done.

[Beechey]

1 hour ago, purpleronnie said:

Your right cuts was the wrong word, under funded, it's led to the NHS being forced to delay all non-urgent surgery, consultants turning away cases deemed non-emergency, making ambulances wait outside hospitals at full capacity, patients on trolleys in corridors, cancelling outpatient and day surgery appointments, we even have consultants tweeting apologies for 3rd world conditions of their hospital.  But yeah the word 'cuts' makes all that ok.  10,000+ NHS Staff leaving after Brexit. 

 

The great 'protection' argument, nice phrase to cover that the health service has in fact endured the longest period of austerity in its history.  Let's not forget the billions funding cut to social care putting even more pressure on an under funded NHS.

 

Now all you Tories and Brexitiers clap, that's real support. 

 

Maybe the workers will be getting a badge for all their hard work? 

Underfunded there's a real argument for.

 

Thanks for the strawman. I never claimed it was "okay". That's some real, pathetic student politics debating strategy.

 

Christ, every sentence is a new strawman. Department for Health (as it was) had its investment in real terms ringfenced, meaning it could not decrease, even when taking inflation into account. I've never once said how I vote. Thanks for another baseless assumption, though. I find it more than a little funny that you try and turn your argument onto me as a person simply because you misunderstood the very basic difference between a real-terms cut and a real-terms increase.

 

Guess I must be a government stooge or Brexitier [sic] if I use independent, factual, verifiable statistics...

Edited 17 April 2020 by Beechey

[StanSP]

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

738 more in England, 847 in the UK.

[yorkie1999]

A ten billion quid increase over 10 years doesn't look underfunded to me. Better medicines, better training and better techniques actually makes it more efficient and consequently less of a cost. We're all living longer, an 100 year old bloke managed to walk 100 laps of his garden and raised 18 million quid and now some old dear is about to scale the equivalent of mount Kilimanjaro, so the health service must be doing something right. 

[reynard]

17 hours ago, EverybodyDannsNow said:

When the lockdown is lifted it will be interesting to see what becomes of the typical work office. 
 

For companies who have managed perfectly fine with employees working at home, would it be irresponsible of them to call workers in just so everyone can ‘work together’? Without a vaccine, surely social distancing will need to continue which would mean desks being rearranged 2 metres apart?  
 

Seems a rather unnecessary risk to me. If you can work from home with no problems at all, then you shouldn’t need to be exposed to a busy commute and a crowded office before we have a vaccine in my opinion. Will be interesting to see what the Government’s guidance on that is - if there is any. 

 

 

Will be interesting to see if there is any guidance. Also be interesting to see just how many companies now realise what a complete load of money they are wasting on expensive office space. Our company has been working at home completely since 15th March and guess what? People can be trusted to do the work and work efficiently from home. Makes our 3 central London offices look a bit redundant.

Edited 17 April 2020 by reynard

[Facecloth]

50 minutes ago, Strokes said:

What new rules?

Mark had put a message at the top about political posts, but it's gone now.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

We dont know all of the factors behind the rates in these countries,  I expect climate in said countries may have some impact but its unproven. Of course some countries are perhaps more prepared but nowhere in Europe is except maybe Germany, who spent a huge amount on ventilators they have never used before and may never use again.

 

Quite honestly I couldn't care less who the rosette is at these times. If the leader is semi competent then fine. I actually think Kier Stammer so far has done a decent job of asking questions in a reasoned, respectful and adult way which is what an opposition should do. I have many times said there are some superb labour politicians, members and voters. There are certain factions of the party not so. I hope that kind of behaviour is now eradicated under the new regime. 

Considering those three countries mentioned above have vastly different climates to each other, I'm not sure how much climate is a factor in their handling of this crisis. What is however evident is that some governments did prepare and react sufficiently for this, unless they were all, for some reason, lucky.

[Spiritwalker]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

 

 

During the daily Coronavirus news conference the other day The Mail on Sunday were called to ask a question.

I waited with bated breath to hear what question they would put to the government about their handling of the crisis.

” When will Parliament be recalled and will it affect the Immigration Bill going through on time?” You couldn’t make it up.

[twoleftfeet]

South Korea's solution was a track down by mobile data every one who came in contact with every single case an  quarantine them regardless of symptoms. A massive problem with rights of individual and privacy as well as data protection. 

[reynard]

4 hours ago, MattP said:

Anyone else having crazy dreams during this?

 

Some of mine have gone completely mental to say the least. Last night I was being hunted for murder but escaped down the street my friend uses to live on, I then hid in a what felt like a pub where the Spice Girls were performing but with Brendan Rodgers as the lead singer.

No but could sure use some of what you seem to be taking! Pretty useful to be that far gone now.

Edited 17 April 2020 by reynard

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

During the daily Coronavirus news conference the other day The Mail on Sunday were called to ask a question.

I waited with bated breath to hear what question they would put to the government about their handling of the crisis.

” When will Parliament be recalled and will it affect the Immigration Bill going through on time?” You couldn’t make it up.

Missed that. Disappointing to read. 

[Jon the Hat]

The effectiveness so far of the German response suggests there is something to look at in how they deliver healthcare.  I think there is a higher degree of private provision, but quite how that delivers more ICU capacity is an interesting question.  

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, The whole world smiles said:

I'm no expert on all this so happy to be proved wrong by a more knowledgeable poster. but surely after inflation and huge population growth in the last 10 years this equals quite a significant real time cut.

 

Also (again I'm no expert) but didn't they roll the social care budget into the NHS budget so that money had to go an awful lot further?

It is. They've given a 3.4% increase each year. So yes, at no stage have they cut funds, they've just not increased it at a rate (around 5%) which matches health inflation. 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

 

 

I understood that there were many many applications for every picking job from UK residents, so not clear why we are flying in Romanians.  I guess they might be experienced pickers known to the the employers who can help with training etc.

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I understood that there were many many applications for every picking job from UK residents, so not clear why we are flying in Romanians.  I guess they might be experienced pickers known to the the employers who can help with training etc.

Where have you seen this? 

 

Also, it's still ironic nonetheless. Lighten up mate

 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

South Korea's solution was a track down by mobile data every one who came in contact with every single case an  quarantine them regardless of symptoms. A massive problem with rights of individual and privacy as well as data protection. 

...but it has worked.

 

Please let's not assume that South Korea is some kind of collectivist government-obeying haven here, in 2016 over a million and a half people marched to ensure that the government of the day fell. They just seem to be better at adaptation to circumstances in terms of society than many other corners of the world.

 

(Identities remained hidden as much as possible, btw. The text alerts I have consistently received mention district location, age and gender only.)

Edited 17 April 2020 by leicsmac

[Costock_Fox]

18 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

South Korea's solution was a track down by mobile data every one who came in contact with every single case an  quarantine them regardless of symptoms. A massive problem with rights of individual and privacy as well as data protection. 

Please don’t steal some data about what porn I’ve been searching for, id much rather my family die and be made redundant.

[Guest Fktf]

4 hours ago, MattP said:

Anyone else having crazy dreams during this?

 

Some of mine have gone completely mental to say the least. Last night I was being hunted for murder but escaped down the street my friend uses to live on, I then hid in a what felt like a pub where the Spice Girls were performing but with Brendan Rodgers as the lead singer.

I'd definitely watch this if it was a film. Need something a little stronger for escapism these days - this sounds just the ticket! 

[Crinklyfox]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

...but it has worked.

 

Please let's not assume that South Korea is some kind of collectivist government-obeying haven here, in 2016 over a million and a half people marched to ensure that the government of the day fell. They just seem to be better at adaptation to circumstances in terms of society than many other corners of the world.

 

(Identities remained hidden as much as possible, btw. The text alerts I have consistently received mention district location, age and gender only.)

To me South Korea's handling of this crisis has been admirable.  I've only worked in Seoul and Busan for short periods but from that consider that the chances of viral spread in communities living in close proximity would have been on a par with London, and the outcomes have been vastly different.

[Guest Fktf]

7 minutes ago, Crinklyfox said:

To me South Korea's handling of this crisis has been admirable.  I've only worked in Seoul and Busan for short periods but from that consider that the chances of viral spread in communities living in close proximity would have been on a par with London, and the outcomes have been vastly different.

And crucially it isn't really much to do with the health service capacity or funding. It's about how quickly they got on top of the spread of the virus. 

[foxile5]

18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

...but it has worked.

 

Please let's not assume that South Korea is some kind of collectivist government-obeying haven here, in 2016 over a million and a half people marched to ensure that the government of the day fell. They just seem to be better at adaptation to circumstances in terms of society than many other corners of the world.

 

(Identities remained hidden as much as possible, btw. The text alerts I have consistently received mention district location, age and gender only.)

Sorry to directly contradict you but they are ruler obeying to the point of silliness. They 100% genuflect to authority. The Suwol ferry disaster was a high death count because the captain said stay in your cabins so people followed orders. I was once told I couldn't have milk in my tea because the menu said otherwise. 

 

The march you're talking about occurred whilst I was living there and was massively out of character. 

 

Korea has faired much better because they will listen to authority, follow rule, and they have been naturally wary of illness for years. People regularly walk the streets in masks. 

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

37 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

South Korea's solution was a track down by mobile data every one who came in contact with every single case an  quarantine them regardless of symptoms. A massive problem with rights of individual and privacy as well as data protection. 

Quite. The people moaning that we should have done what Korea have done will be the same one sharing those posts on Facebook saying "Facebook do not have the rights to share my personal details".