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Corona Virus

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No political discussion in this topic. That is complaining about a country, a politician, a party and/or its voters, etc

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35 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Ok now I'm pissed off at the government. Originally the furlough scheme was based on an employees basic pay, up to the maximum of £2500 a month. So if you have an employees who regularly works overtime but has a basic salary they are paid when that overtime isn't available, you pay them based on that basic salary. At the time I didn't really understand how that worked for zero hour contract employees, but whatever. Now, after the first week of us paying three members of staff their furlough based on their basic wage, they have decided that it's now based on your average pay. Obviously that's great for those people that's will get more money, but a huge pain in the arse for companies that have pressed the button on the payment of furloughed staff. I now have to roll back three employees wages and recalculate, pay the extra, resubmit the reports etc.

 

They've also moved the date for when you started at a job from the 1st of March to having been on the payroll by the 19th. Again great for those still working that they now fall into the furlough window, not so great for those who have basically been made redundant as they are not eligible for furlough, but there's no work for them.

The way my company explained it is that the 80% would be of either your contracted hours or the average hours worked over the last year depending on which is higher.  Could it not be that for this next round of payments the average overtook the basic contract?

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15 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

I find it all a bit odd seeing people I know voted for tory cuts and Brexit clapping to show 'support' for the NHS.

On that point, what is even more ridiculous is the mass gatherings out side of hospitals to clap the NHS, since when were hospital grounds immune from the illness? Is absolutely insane that people are stood outside of hospitals clapping..... what happened to no mass gatherings? The scenes from Westminster bridge were ridiculous, even the police and ambulance crews were there too..... it’s literally pissing all over the guidelines, the irony being that a few of those clapping outside the hospitals may end up in them.

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1 minute ago, Pliskin said:

On that point, what is even more ridiculous is the mass gatherings out side of hospitals to clap the NHS, since when were hospital grounds immune from the illness? Is absolutely insane that people are stood outside of hospitals clapping..... what happened to no mass gatherings? The scenes from Westminster bridge were ridiculous, even the police and ambulance crews were there too..... it’s literally pissing all over the guidelines, the irony being that a few of those clapping outside the hospitals may end up in them.

Astonishing to see NHS staff standing close together without masks on ..... surely there is a bigger risk that some of them will have been exposed to the virus recently and they could be incubating it and therefore infectious pre symptoms ?   If they had been masked up then I’d be more relaxed about those photos .... @z-layrex, is it current standard practice to at least wear a surgical mask at all times within hospitals when within 2 metres of others? 

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26 minutes ago, Beechey said:

The Conservatives have not cut the NHS once since they came to power in 2010. They very specifically ring fenced real-terms spending so the NHS would not lose money. They might not have increased spending particularly quickly between 2010 and 2013, but no cuts at all. Worth pointing out that spending will increase by more than £20bn in real terms within the next 3 years on current plans.

 

image.png.24a644593d42cd991da1ff004fd887f6.png

 

It's a bit weird of you to conflate the NHS and Conservative public spending cuts, considering the Department of Health was arguably the most protected in the last 10 years.

They haven’t cut but it needed investment ...... however, this period coincided with austerity ....... 

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3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

We can’t complain .....does that mean we can have constructive debate on countries as long as it isn’t critical ? 

I think it means call the Chinese bat-eating weirdos but don't criticise our government. 

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2 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Ok now I'm pissed off at the government. Originally the furlough scheme was based on an employees basic pay, up to the maximum of £2500 a month. So if you have an employees who regularly works overtime but has a basic salary they are paid when that overtime isn't available, you pay them based on that basic salary. At the time I didn't really understand how that worked for zero hour contract employees, but whatever. Now, after the first week of us paying three members of staff their furlough based on their basic wage, they have decided that it's now based on your average pay. Obviously that's great for those people that's will get more money, but a huge pain in the arse for companies that have pressed the button on the payment of furloughed staff. I now have to roll back three employees wages and recalculate, pay the extra, resubmit the reports etc.

 

They've also moved the date for when you started at a job from the 1st of March to having been on the payroll by the 19th. Again great for those still working that they now fall into the furlough window, not so great for those who have basically been made redundant as they are not eligible for furlough, but there's no work for them.

It’s a bit of a pisser as you would be closing the year end on the payroll too I assume.

At least it’s a positive that more people are getting help though.

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2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

In a dream a couple of nights ago, I was being arrested, too, and accused of some unspecified crime that was a mystery to me.

In the dream I was also with a girl who I went out with for about 2 months, 32 years ago. All very strange.

 

Was she aged 42 and sat opposite you alongside the prosecution? 

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6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s a bit of a pisser as you would be closing the year end on the payroll too I assume.

At least it’s a positive that more people are getting help though.

That's done thankfully. It's just the moving of the goalpost that's annoyed me, I'm happy more people are getting help. 

 

Hope this post is allowed under the new rules

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1 hour ago, Beechey said:

The Conservatives have not cut the NHS once since they came to power in 2010. They very specifically ring fenced real-terms spending so the NHS would not lose money. They might not have increased spending particularly quickly between 2010 and 2013, but no cuts at all. Worth pointing out that spending will increase by more than £20bn in real terms within the next 3 years on current plans.

 

image.png.24a644593d42cd991da1ff004fd887f6.png

 

It's a bit weird of you to conflate the NHS and Conservative public spending cuts, considering the Department of Health was arguably the most protected in the last 10 years.

I'm no expert on all this so happy to be proved wrong by a more knowledgeable poster. but surely after inflation and huge population growth in the last 10 years this equals quite a significant real time cut.

 

Also (again I'm no expert) but didn't they roll the social care budget into the NHS budget so that money had to go an awful lot further?

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2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Was she aged 42 and sat opposite you alongside the prosecution? 

lol

 

No. She was aged about 21 as she was when I knew her (about 53 now?! :S).

 

It wasn't a courtroom scene. I was being arrested walking down the street. But it was only me arrested so she wasn't implicated in my crimes.

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8 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I'm no expert on all this so happy to be proved wrong by a more knowledgeable poster. but surely after inflation and huge population growth in the last 10 years this equals quite a significant real time cut.

 

Also (again I'm no expert) but didn't they roll the social care budget into the NHS budget so that money had to go an awful lot further?

Yep.  when you take into account NHS inflation (drugs, new treatments, training, equipment etc etc) which is a lot higher than "normal" inflation plus an ageing population, plus  an ageing property estate plus the pressures brought about by cuts to social care (bed blocking) has meant a massive overall cut in funding.

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3 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I'm no expert on all this so happy to be proved wrong by a more knowledgeable poster. but surely after inflation and huge population growth in the last 10 years this equals quite a significant real time cut.

 

Also (again I'm no expert) but didn't they roll the social care budget into the NHS budget so that money had to go an awful lot further?

it in deed was a cut in real term especially if you take into account the paddleless creek that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown  left them in

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/nhs-hospital-trusts-to-pay-out-further-55bn-under-pfi-scheme

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

Just as the Global financial crisis at the end of their term cannot be laid at the feet of the Labour govt this miss management of major government spend can be.

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1 minute ago, twoleftfeet said:

it in deed was a cut in real term especially if you take into account the paddleless creek that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown  left them in

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/nhs-hospital-trusts-to-pay-out-further-55bn-under-pfi-scheme

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

Just as the Global financial crisis at the end of their term cannot be laid at the feet of the Labour govt this miss management of major government spend can be.

That's behind a paywall mate please can you copy and paste for me sounds interesting.

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NHS hospital trusts to pay out further £55bn under PFI scheme

This article is more than 7 months old

Some spending one-sixth of entire budget on repaying debts from Blair-era policy

Denis Campbell Health policy editor

Wed 11 Sep 2019 19.01 EDT Last modified on Thu 12 Sep 2019 11.41 EDT

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The PFI contract for the Royal London hospital, at almost £1.2bn, is the largest by value in the English NHS. Photograph: AP S (uk)/Alamy Stock Photo

NHS hospital trusts are being crippled by the private finance initiative and will have to make another £55bn in payments by the time the last contract ends in 2050, a report reveals.

An initial £13bn of private sector-funded investment in new hospitals will end up costing the NHS in England a staggering £80bn by the time all contracts come to an end, the IPPR thinktank has found.

Some trusts are having to spend as much as one-sixth of their entire budget on repaying debts due as a result of the PFI scheme. PFI was introduced by John Major’s Conservative government but its use proliferated in the Blair era .

The findings raised concerns that the diversion of such large sums at a time when many trusts are in the red and coping with the fast-rising demand for care. There are fears it could damage the quality of care and risk patient safety because trusts do not have funds to hire enough staff.

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“Toxic PFI contracts are still driving billions away from patients and into private bank accounts,” said Chris Thomas, an IPPR health fellow, who carried out the research.

The PFI contract for Barts Health trust in London, involving an outlay of almost £1.2bn, is the largest by value in the English NHS. It paid for the building of the Royal London hospital, which opened in 2012 and has 845 beds spread across 110 wards.

However, the entire project will have cost the trust £6.2bn by the time it ends, according to Treasury estimates. Barts spends £116m a year servicing its debt, which is 7.66% of its income, according to the IPPR report.

The 109 contracts still active will cost the trusts involved a combined £2.15bn to service in 2020-21, rising to £2.5bn in 2030, it said.

Sherwood Forest trust in Nottinghamshire has a £326m PFI deal that costs it £50.3m a year in repayments and eats up the largest proportion of its budget of any trust – 16.51%.

University Hospitals Coventry trust spends £89.3m a year on its PFI debt while Manchester University trust’s contract costs it £77.2m.

“This timely and shocking IPPR report highlights the huge waste of taxpayers’ money from paying off PFI debts that are crippling the NHS and could be much better spent on patient care,” said Dr John Puntis, a retired paediatrician who is co-chair of the campaign group Keep Our NHS Public.

“All trust debts should be wiped clean by the Treasury, and contracts renegotiated and brought back into public ownership on grounds of poor value. The premise of PFI that the private sector is more efficient in delivering and managing infrastructure projects has repeatedly been shown to be false,” he added.

Ministers have banned the NHS from using PFI for any future building projects after criticism that many of the contracts still active represent poor value for money.

The IPPR is urging the government to legislate to let trusts buy out such contracts and bring them into public ownership and boost the NHS’s capital budget by £5.5bn so it can afford to undertake projects without PFI.

In 2013 Northumbria Healthcare trust used money it had borrowed from Northumberland county council to buy out its PFI contract, which reduced its repayments by £3m a year. Other trusts have tried to do the same but none has yet done so.

Saffron Cordery, the deputy chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents trusts, urged ministers to urgently set out how trusts can access enough capital funding to repair dilapidated buildings, build new facilities and buy the equipment they need in order to make the NHS fit for the 21st century. The Department of Health has raided £4.1bn of NHS capital funding over the last five years to help pay for the service’s day-to-day running costs.

“There are many trusts with well-designed PFIs that have benefited their patients and that are good value, but equally it is undoubtedly true that some deals were badly designed and have left trusts with repayment bills that they cannot afford,” she said.

This article was amended on 12 September 2019 because an earlier version incorrectly stated that PFI was introduced under Blair’s Labour government. The scheme began under John Major’s Conservative government but its use proliferated in the Blair era.

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1 hour ago, Beechey said:

The Conservatives have not cut the NHS once since they came to power in 2010. They very specifically ring fenced real-terms spending so the NHS would not lose money. They might not have increased spending particularly quickly between 2010 and 2013, but no cuts at all. Worth pointing out that spending will increase by more than £20bn in real terms within the next 3 years on current plans.

 

image.png.24a644593d42cd991da1ff004fd887f6.png

 

It's a bit weird of you to conflate the NHS and Conservative public spending cuts, considering the Department of Health was arguably the most protected in the last 10 years.

Your right cuts was the wrong word, under funded, it's led to the NHS being forced to delay all non-urgent surgery, consultants turning away cases deemed non-emergency, making ambulances wait outside hospitals at full capacity, patients on trolleys in corridors, cancelling outpatient and day surgery appointments, we even have consultants tweeting apologies for 3rd world conditions of their hospital.  But yeah the word 'cuts' makes all that ok.  10,000+ NHS Staff leaving after Brexit. 

 

The great 'protection' argument, nice phrase to cover that the health service has in fact endured the longest period of austerity in its history.  Let's not forget the billions funding cut to social care putting even more pressure on an under funded NHS.

 

Now all you Tories and Brexitiers clap, that's real support. 

 

Maybe the workers will be getting a badge for all their hard work? 

Edited by purpleronnie
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2 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Its absolutely nothing to do with Tory cuts or any of that crap FFS grow up with this political posturing bollocks at a time like this! Jesus wept! Some people..... and it really shows what kind of people need to take a long hard look at themselves. (Hint it ain't tories)

 

This is a global pandemic, governments across the globe are in uncharted territory, no amount of money or planning could prepare sufficiently for this. Governments are run by humans, they will get things wrong, they may need to change paths, but the genuinely do want the best for all of us. Just look at Belgiums death rates, far higher tax and social support than here, has that fixed it? No.

 

 

Well said Foxin_Mad

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