Coronavirus Thread

[Dr The Singh]

I got mine early cus the swiftqueue and NHS wrongly asked over 40's to start booking in my area

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Rain King said:

Also had it this morning. Feel absolutely fine although been having pins and needles in my feet but not sure that's connected.

I had pins and needles in my wrist, and itching legs and tired as hell for a weekend, but that’s all gone now. Must be just how it works it’s way round your blood stream.

Edited 16 March 2021 by yorkie1999

[yorkie1999]

53 minutes ago, Rain King said:

Still not sure why I had mine. I'm 35 and in decent health. The text message said I had underlying issues.

 

I rang the doctors to check and they knew nothing about it as it had come from NHS directly and didn't have me on the list to have it at the moment. Slightly concerned what underlying issue I'm supposed to have.

My daughter had the same issue, reckoned she had underlying health issues but she hasn’t, my mrs rang her mate who works at the doctors and she said the notifications go out in batches by age group that have already been worked out, apparently they had sent out a wrong age group by mistake.

[Otis]

3 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

If I told you a couple of years ago that out of every 100,000 people (>3 KP statiums full) 80 of them had for what is most part a bit of a cold we would close the whole country down.

Would you believe it?

[st albans fox]

8 minutes ago, Otis said:

If I told you a couple of years ago that out of every 100,000 people (>3 KP statiums full) 80 of them had for what is most part a bit of a cold we would close the whole country down.

Would you believe it?

No .....but then again that’s not what’s happening ........

[BoyJones]

5 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Unless I'm confusing you with someone else, this is the second time you have libelled her; she was exonerated of that charge.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35769001

The article says she did copy previous work, but didn’t realise it was cheating? Or have I misread the story.

 

In England, ignorance of the law, never used to be a legitimate defence. 

[Otis]

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

No .....but then again that’s not what’s happening ........

What is happening then?

[BoyJones]

22 hours ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

It's definitely off putting seeing more and more countries stopping the use of a certain vaccine. I don't think you're a lunatic anti vaxxer if you are hesitant about taking a vaccine a large proportion of the world are concerned isn't safe. I'm not having it until it's been declared safe, don't care what anyone else thinks of me for that but it's how it is with me. If all this goes away and it's declared fully safe I'll definitely have it but until that happens sod it, not going to be peer pressured or guilted in to taking something that might damage me, and I say this as a man who has had all his jabs for the different diseases etc off my own back in later life as my mum was all about that autism bull back in the day. 

May I ask you a genuine question? 
 

If you refuse the jab and then contracted Covid 19 and say had trouble breathing, would you ring for an ambulance or try and sort it yourself, ie stay at home and hope for the best?

[st albans fox]

18 minutes ago, Otis said:

What is happening then?

According to you, a bit of a cold has resulted in 125,000 deaths ........  if anyone here has lost someone close to them to covid then I hope they aren’t upset by your description of what was responsible for their loss. 

and if there were only 80 in every100k who had the virus then we wouldn’t have shut the country down ........  your post lacks context .... 

 

thinking about the vaccine furore in Europe, I haven’t seen much anecdotal evidence on social media that people here are becoming nervous re the AZ jab ...... the vast majority now being vaccinated in this country have almost no chance of dying from covid and yet they seem to be taking the view that having the vaccine is for the greater good and not worrying about their own situation 

 

[Paninistickers]

45 minutes ago, BoyJones said:

May I ask you a genuine question? 
 

If you refuse the jab and then contracted Covid 19 and say had trouble breathing, would you ring for an ambulance or try and sort it yourself, ie stay at home and hope for the best?

I think it's fair for those not at obvious risk of serious illness to question, delay or be cautious of taking an experimental vaccine. 

 

And as such, surely the take up rates will start declining once we get to the over 40s and lower. 

 

As for refusing treatment, of course those not at risk are unlikely to need treatment. 

 

[Spudulike]

11 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

I think it's fair for those not at obvious risk of serious illness to question, delay or be cautious of taking an experimental vaccine. 

 

And as such, surely the take up rates will start declining once we get to the over 40s and lower. 

 

As for refusing treatment, of course those not at risk are unlikely to need treatment. 

 

Its not about being at obvious risk of serious illness. It's about others that a person could infect. 

[Legend_in_blue]

Ferguson looking too smug for my liking on the BBC news tonight.  That man and his modelling has caused a lot of damage in 12 months.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

1 hour ago, BoyJones said:

May I ask you a genuine question? 
 

If you refuse the jab and then contracted Covid 19 and say had trouble breathing, would you ring for an ambulance or try and sort it yourself, ie stay at home and hope for the best?

It's utter bollocks like this that drives people further away from wanting to be compliant. Forcing someone against their will, an anti vaxxer if you wanna go with the coined term, how do you think they will react to being belittled and talked to like a total ****? This is a particular variance of a jab that is being pulled the world over for concerns over its safety. Give it a rest. 

[KrefelderFox666]

27 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Its not about being at obvious risk of serious illness. It's about others that a person could infect. 

Are those others at risk if they have had the vaccine themselves? I see where you are going but if people don't have a jab, they only risk themselves from being ill, not others. Unless those others also avoided the vaccine, in which case risk was taken.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

'look at the numbers yourself' 

 

'it's political' 

 

'you're this or that for refusing a proven safe vaccine'. 

 

Well I'd rather upset people on a football forum over my wild anti vaccination views (as stated, am fully inoculated and have a mother who thinks the mmr causes autism) than put myself at undue risk for the sake of what very well may end up being a week or two of clarification, or maybe there's just a very, very small chance this parituclar vaccine is problematic and it will be pulled from circulation, I know where I stand on it and won't be talked down from it, again, world powerhouse governments are pulling this from circulation as things stand, not Dr douchebag on YouTube or twitter. It's just common sense to want to be absolutely sure. If you want to go ahead and have it then by all means but I don't see for a second how you can lump in someone for having genuine concerns about something a dozen world governments have genuine concern over being some anti vaxx mentalist who deserves derision. 

[bovril]

I think it's fair enough that people might be cautious when, as Guppy above posts, they see a number of governments pausing vaccinations and doctors in Norway (a country that seems eminently sensible) seemingly having cause for concern. People are being a bit sensitive over this. 

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Ferguson looking too smug for my liking on the BBC news tonight.  That man and his modelling has caused a lot of damage in 12 months.

I’m sure he and the rest of the scientists haven’t got everything right, it’s a pretty difficult field to be precise in, more akin to economics than physics. Nevertheless, early predictions IIRC settled on about 250k deaths if no action was taken, possibly significantly more due to collateral damage if the NHS was overrun.

 

You've taken significant measures (generally after the horse had bolted) but still clocked up a death count of half that figure. I just don’t see any real discrepancy.

[dsr-burnley]

48 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

'look at the numbers yourself' 

 

'it's political' 

 

'you're this or that for refusing a proven safe vaccine'. 

 

Well I'd rather upset people on a football forum over my wild anti vaccination views (as stated, am fully inoculated and have a mother who thinks the mmr causes autism) than put myself at undue risk for the sake of what very well may end up being a week or two of clarification, or maybe there's just a very, very small chance this parituclar vaccine is problematic and it will be pulled from circulation, I know where I stand on it and won't be talked down from it, again, world powerhouse governments are pulling this from circulation as things stand, not Dr douchebag on YouTube or twitter. It's just common sense to want to be absolutely sure. If you want to go ahead and have it then by all means but I don't see for a second how you can lump in someone for having genuine concerns about something a dozen world governments have genuine concern over being some anti vaxx mentalist who deserves derision. 

What people don't understand is why these overseas governments can't realise that with 11 million vaccinations, 4 people have died whose death might, or might not, have been caused by the vaccine.  If none of those 11 million vaccinations had happened, all those 4 people might (or might not) be still alive.  But if they had cancelled all the vaccinations, how many of the 11 million would die of coronavirus?

 

This isn't proportionate.  Delaying the vaccine would make sense if there was no urgency and there were no ill effects from cancelling it.  As it is, there is no doubt at all that cancelling the vaccine will cause more deaths than it will save.  Whether they are right or wrong about the blood clots, on balance lives have been lost.  No doubt.

 

And the same can be extended to individuals.  Admittedly in a country where everyone else is vaccinated, the unvaccinated like yourself are in effect piggy-backing the vaccine effect on the backs of others.  The vaccinated take the risk, however slight or non-existent, of blood clots, which you won't take, but we all benefit from the herd immunity as long as the unvaccinated are a small minority.  But in Europe, were vaccine scepticism appears to be a lot higher and the politicians seem a lot less keen, they won't get herd immunity and the people who aren't vaccinated will have a much higher chance of death than the people who are.  Both individually and governmentally, they are not playing the odds.

[dsr-burnley]

1 minute ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I’m sure he and the rest of the scientists haven’t got everything right, it’s a pretty difficult field to be precise in, more akin to economics than physics. Nevertheless, early predictions IIRC settled on about 250k deaths if no action was taken, possibly significantly more due to collateral damage if the NHS was overrun.

 

You've taken significant measures (generally after the horse had bolted) but still clocked up a death count of half that figure. I just don’t see any real discrepancy.

I suspect the 250k was still very much overestimated.  OK, most of the crackpot "coronavirus doesn't exist" countries don't have reliable statisitcs, but Brazil it seems hasn't reached that sort of death rate.  Not to say it won't of course.  I don't know how they will ever be able to assess how many lives lockdown saved, and I don't doubt that it has saved lives, but I would like to know (but never will know) what would have happened.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

1 minute ago, dsr-burnley said:

What people don't understand is why these overseas governments can't realise that with 11 million vaccinations, 4 people have died whose death might, or might not, have been caused by the vaccine.  If none of those 11 million vaccinations had happened, all those 4 people might (or might not) be still alive.  But if they had cancelled all the vaccinations, how many of the 11 million would die of coronavirus?

 

This isn't proportionate.  Delaying the vaccine would make sense if there was no urgency and there were no ill effects from cancelling it.  As it is, there is no doubt at all that cancelling the vaccine will cause more deaths than it will save.  Whether they are right or wrong about the blood clots, on balance lives have been lost.  No doubt.

 

And the same can be extended to individuals.  Admittedly in a country where everyone else is vaccinated, the unvaccinated like yourself are in effect piggy-backing the vaccine effect on the backs of others.  The vaccinated take the risk, however slight or non-existent, of blood clots, which you won't take, but we all benefit from the herd immunity as long as the unvaccinated are a small minority.  But in Europe, were vaccine scepticism appears to be a lot higher and the politicians seem a lot less keen, they won't get herd immunity and the people who aren't vaccinated will have a much higher chance of death than the people who are.  Both individually and governmentally, they are not playing the odds.

This is utter nonsense. I'm a healthy 33 year old who isn't due a vaccine for months and I will have it when my time comes as long a it's safe. 

[WigstonWanderer]

15 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I suspect the 250k was still very much overestimated.  OK, most of the crackpot "coronavirus doesn't exist" countries don't have reliable statisitcs, but Brazil it seems hasn't reached that sort of death rate.  Not to say it won't of course.  I don't know how they will ever be able to assess how many lives lockdown saved, and I don't doubt that it has saved lives, but I would like to know (but never will know) what would have happened.

Well the UK is only a factor of 2 out, and as I understand, far less than 50% of the population have had the disease. So my point is that the estimate wasn’t an order of magnitude out.
 

Not sure why it’s still doubted that lockdowns have a significant effect either, as the correlation with cases and deaths seems anecdotally to be a very good one. Ie. Raging virus and deaths, lockdown, a few weeks later cases come down, and a few weeks after that deaths rate subsides. Too many people listening to crackpot Youtubers IMO when the simplest explanation is that the scientists who actually study the subject are more believable.

 

Anyway, not worth having any arguments about this now when the vaccine appears to be doing its work and this will all hopefully disappear into the rear view mirror.

Edited 17 March 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[Dunge]

21 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

This is utter nonsense. I'm a healthy 33 year old who isn't due a vaccine for months and I will have it when my time comes as long a it's safe. 

It is safe.

 

I don’t want you to feel I’m having a go here. Part of the reason the vaccine is voluntary is precisely so that people don’t feel pressured into it. I do, genuinely appreciate your position. That’s why I thought I’d offer this thinking:

 

If you’re looking at the bigger authorities on the matter, they declare the vaccine to be safe. The WHO says it’s safe. The EMA says there’s no reason to stop the rollout. The UK Government and medical authorities continue to declare the vaccine to be safe. Data made available to the public in the UK demonstrates it to be safe, with instances of blood clots no higher through vaccination than they would be otherwise.

 

I get that you’re concerned about foreign governments suspending the jab, but these are not the experts you fear they are. And they’re angry. They’re angry at AZ for perceived faults in the provision of their vaccine to them and therefore willing to accept any report against them without sufficient questioning. They’re pressured, forced down these alleys by their previous, unfounded criticism of the AZ jab, not as strong with data comprehension as you might expect they’d be, and they’re making mistakes.

 

They’re jumping at shadows, afraid of the unknown, and now they’re projecting that fear to their own people and furthermore to some here, undermining a life-saving vaccine.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

It's utter bollocks like this that drives people further away from wanting to be compliant. Forcing someone against their will, an anti vaxxer if you wanna go with the coined term, how do you think they will react to being belittled and talked to like a total ****? This is a particular variance of a jab that is being pulled the world over for concerns over its safety. Give it a rest. 

I see the point.

 

However, as was talked about a while back, what would be the best way to proceed? Condescension is not going to help, but talking about it calmly and presenting the scientific facts doesn't seem to be convincing either, so it's a bit of a mess.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-56420397

 

Oh dear.

[Nod.E]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

It is safe.

 

I don’t want you to feel I’m having a go here. Part of the reason the vaccine is voluntary is precisely so that people don’t feel pressured into it. I do, genuinely appreciate your position. That’s why I thought I’d offer this thinking:

 

If you’re looking at the bigger authorities on the matter, they declare the vaccine to be safe. The WHO says it’s safe. The EMA says there’s no reason to stop the rollout. The UK Government and medical authorities continue to declare the vaccine to be safe. Data made available to the public in the UK demonstrates it to be safe, with instances of blood clots no higher through vaccination than they would be otherwise.

 

I get that you’re concerned about foreign governments suspending the jab, but these are not the experts you fear they are. And they’re angry. They’re angry at AZ for perceived faults in the provision of their vaccine to them and therefore willing to accept any report against them without sufficient questioning. They’re pressured, forced down these alleys by their previous, unfounded criticism of the AZ jab, not as strong with data comprehension as you might expect they’d be, and they’re making mistakes.

 

They’re jumping at shadows, afraid of the unknown, and now they’re projecting that fear to their own people and furthermore to some here, undermining a life-saving vaccine.

We need more calm and considered responses like this. I don't have the patience, personally.