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filbertway

Coronavirus Thread

By filbertway, in General Chat

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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted

Frankly, looking not just at this but at what many countries have done with vaccines and coronavirus, I see a lot of looking inwards and very little looking outwards. First, someone suspends their AZ vaccinations because of the result of one internal study. Other countries see that and think there might be something to worry about, so they ask their own departments for data. Those departments don’t have the data, so they play it safe through fear of the unknown. Logically, it makes absolute sense to ask the UK what’s happening because we’ve been rolling that vaccine out en masse, but authorities don’t want to do that because again that’s responsibility. Why they’re not listening to the WHO is all the more frustrating. But here we are.

 

Ultimately, I don’t think it’s politics; I think it’s poor data handling and lack of trust of the outside world.

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Super_horns

Super_horns

Posted
Posted (edited)

How long after the vaccine  are these people experiencing blood clot issues ?

 

Days , weeks or months....

 

Did they have other health  issues etc 

 

It’s easy to say there is a problem but more detail has to be given surely .

Edited by Super_horns
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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I really can't see how these countries have determined that the AZ vaccine has caused the deaths of 4 people out of 20 odd million due to blood clot when blood clots is the cause of 100,000's of deaths anyway. It's got to be political. 

Never underestimate the power of statistical incompetence.

(See “Wakefield, Andrew”)

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dsr-burnley

dsr-burnley

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I really can't see how these countries have determined that the AZ vaccine has caused the deaths of 4 people out of 20 odd million due to blood clot when blood clots is the cause of 100,000's of deaths anyway. It's got to be political. 

But it's the politics of stupidity.  What questions are they asking?  Is it going something like this:

 

"How many deaths will result if we don't get the country vaccinated quickly?" - Answer "who knows, 1,000, 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, think of a number."

 

"How many deaths is this AstraZeneca vaccine likely to cause" - Answer "Well, we don't know for sure, chances are it's none at all but it might be as high as 4 over the whole of Europe"

 

How do they get from that to "BAN IT! BAN IT!"?  :dunno:

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yorkie1999

yorkie1999

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Never underestimate the power of statistical incompetence.

(See “Wakefield, Andrew”)

You're right. People are sheep. One search online and i found this, i know it's US but it's going to be a reflection of worldwide stats.

https://www.stoptheclot.org/blood-clot-information/blood-clots-in-the-united-states/

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Sol thewall Bamba

Sol thewall Bamba

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

How long after the vaccine  are these people experiencing blood clot issues ?

 

Days , weeks or months....

 

Did they have other health  issues etc 

 

It’s easy to say there is a problem but more detail has to be given surely .

There is no problem. Blood clot rates in people who have had the jabs are no higher than in the general population.

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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted

There’s also another potential factor at play here:

 

A big part of the vaccination campaign across most if not all countries is take-up rate and vaccine confidence. In Britain, we’ve had a take-up rate better than expected. There are several reasons for this - we were known to be a populace that was comparatively positive toward vaccination, perhaps partly through being a country with a strong scientific past. Then, attitudes among the first to take the vaccine was positive - older people influenced for cultural reasons - perhaps Conservative voters might have trusted the Conservative government, a feeling of patriotism and scorn for the EU that we were “winning the race” - things that some wouldn’t find palatable but ultimately a means to a positive end. Essentially, Britain already has high confidence in the AZ vaccine, and the EU’s previous, incorrect negging of it doesn’t stand their current reticence in good stead this side of the Channel.

 

In the EU, meanwhile, the AZ vaccine has come in for a lot of criticism. Macron in particular has slagged it for political reasons. And now, those chickens are, perhaps, coming home to roost. As soon as a report comes out saying “it might be dangerous”, people in France and the like are more likely to jump because of already having a negative view of the vaccine. Take-up rates may drop further regardless, and a government that pushed on with it would be viewed with intense suspicion for first of all rejecting it and then continuing despite a mystery report while others around them halted. ie: They could actually damage trust in their own vaccination campaign by not stopping.

 

Fortunately, it seems that people aren’t so bothered and more pragmatic in this country. The feeling will be predominantly that AZ has at least deserved a second look at some further stats, and those stats come back positive.

 

 

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RowlattsFox

RowlattsFox

Posted
Posted

Surely they wouldn't just stop access to a vaccine out of spite? Probably think playing safe shows their people how serious they are taking safety to encourage take up but it might have opposite effect in terms of trust. Hope this doesn't have an impact on the UK take up now we are reaching ages more likely to not have the vaccine. 

 

These vaccine passports are going to be separated into different categories depending on what vaccine you've had. 

 

Either way, not really something you want to read when you've already had the AZ vaccine lol 

 

The UK is a big enough sample size to see if there is really any serious threat, so hopefully (well not hopefully, because this isn't fair on the European people) the UK are ahead of the game.

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StanSP

StanSP

Posted
Posted

Good thread to show to people who are concerned about the AZ vaccine news. The media need to get on top of this and either nip it in the bud or try and renew confidence in the vaccine in general. It's an utterly tiny number when you think about it (and see it in writing). 

 

 

 

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KrefelderFox666

KrefelderFox666

Posted
Posted

No idea what the reasons behind the suspension of AZ is in those countries. You can understand that there is not enough data to prove it is safe from long term effects but then, there is no time to get that data. Of course there could be side effects that kick in 6-12 months (or later) down the line.

 

However, with the data available today, the reason for suspension makes very little sense. There is of course the factor that those countries probably don't have masses of AZ doses available for a few weeks and therefore taking some time out has a minimal impact. Whereas in the UK, the supply of AZ vaccine is probably millions per week and has serious effects on the vaccination rollout.

 

Uptake is another key thing. The British public are generally less risk averse and have more of a JFDI attitude whereas in Europe, people tend to be careful what they are given. These countries are probably faced with a potential "boycott" of AZ vaccines and therefore those countries would waste precious vaccines. So they would rather give it 2 weeks to get data to convince the public that AZ is safe to use before kicking it back off.

 

It does seem strange but each country is in a different state so worth considering.

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Super_horns

Super_horns

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Tommy Hearns tweeted that Hagler died in an ICU from the effects of the vaccine, however his family said he died at home from natural causes.

Would we feel more inclined to believe the family?

 

I mean there is quite a difference there in opinion on how he died. 

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yorkie1999

yorkie1999

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

Would it be a surprise if Nicola bleedin' Sturgeon suspended Ox-AZ rollout in Scotland? 

I’m not quite sure about that, it’s a non profit making vaccine, which is why I think a lot of people in power are against using it, but, for a person from Scotland to turn something down for free.....nah.

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Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot

Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot

Posted
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It's definitely off putting seeing more and more countries stopping the use of a certain vaccine. I don't think you're a lunatic anti vaxxer if you are hesitant about taking a vaccine a large proportion of the world are concerned isn't safe. I'm not having it until it's been declared safe, don't care what anyone else thinks of me for that but it's how it is with me. If all this goes away and it's declared fully safe I'll definitely have it but until that happens sod it, not going to be peer pressured or guilted in to taking something that might damage me, and I say this as a man who has had all his jabs for the different diseases etc off my own back in later life as my mum was all about that autism bull back in the day. 

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