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Nalis

The morning after the night before

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1 minute ago, inckley fox said:

It's a very easy way out to say 'oh, we were never good enough anyway!' But it doesn't make much sense when you've been in relegation form for 15 or 16 matches, with a set of players that on paper should be doing far, far better than that.

We wernt good enough vs City at the Ethiad and Liverpool at home. We arnt a top 2 team.

However we should of been 3rd or 4th over the course of the season based on our ability.

Utd’s incredible form is 1 thing, but to drop below Chelsea is not acceptable this season with the situation they have had to deal with and the situation we are in.

We have not been good enough at times, but if we’re honest to ourselves, in this recent run nearly every game has been a case of regret rather than not capable.

Yesterday was the last straw for me, another game thrown away for no reason.

I can’t watch yesterday and think ‘we’re not good enough’, I just watch and see a team in control and then giving it away needlessly.

 

People might think I’m jumping on a knee jerk reaction to claim it’s the worst 2 minutes of our history, but in today’s game money matters.

Pre 1992 was working class football , post 1992 it’s big money and business.
So for me in a few years we will look at that Bournemouth game as the start of the end, in the same way we looked at The Wycombe defeat as the reason for 2001-2008 and our years of regrouping.

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1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

No and I can’t stand hearing this constant cliche opinion that we were ‘punching above our weight in the first part of the season’.

 

We were not punching above our weight, we had good form and are at least the forth best team in the league even now.

I swear people make this kinda crap up to make them feel better about the reality - which is that we have bottled top 4 by stupid errors.

Chelsea are very average, with a rookie manager and a transfer ban. They have had to deal with a young team that has quality but is inconsistent and we for 1 season had a chance because we have a better squad than Chelsea.

Money talks and next season they will be back, we missed a great chance and it was there for the taking.

Frank has done a fantastic job to get a team weaker than us into the top 4. We have underachieved and bottled it. This will go down as the biggest disappointment and underachieved season in our history.

 

Football only began in 1992 as proven today by Man City’s rigged appeal and since moneyball has began, you can argue turgid 2004-08 is the worst part but due to being in financial troubles , it was a bad situation but we wernt good enough, we didn’t throw anything away.


For me the only season that can compare to being on this level of waste is 00-01 under Taylor.

For me this is actually worse for a few reasons:

1 - our cup run ended vs a team who are so bad and we would of had a final , a 1 off game, for a cup if we just beat a poor team. Comparison to 00-01, yes we lost to Wycombe but if we won we’d of played a treble winning Liverpool team and even if we beat them, probably the best arsenal team to ever play the game! We were never winning the FA cup anyway.

2- Our team that year had to deal with losing Heskey and Collymore and Martin O Neil. We had a toothless Akinbiyi and Eadie up top. Izzet And Lennon were playing out his skin and we were punching high. We lost Lennon in January and got spanked 6-1 by Arsenal and then lost to a terrible Bradford team at home. The writing was on the wall before the Wycombe game, that just got the headlines.


We were a good team fighting above our weight with a tiny squad And then lost Lennon and it fell apart. This team is 10x better and we’re punching below our weight not above our weight.

This is the worst season of our history since the Premier League began in terms of underachieving to the sum of our parts.
It will take a long time to live it down and I honestly think with Big clubs coming up from the Championship this year and our only genuine world class players either coming up to 34 or getting big moves away, I honestly can see us being dark horses for relegation, if not next year, over the next few years!

We have missed a big chance that will change the landscape of our club for potentially the next decade and beyond.
If we’re playing in the Championship anytime within the next few years it’ll all be because of these last few months, particularly culminating in that dreadful 2 mins vs a Bournemouth team who’d genuinely struggle in league 1.

Make no mistake about it, this is a sad time for our club and our worst ever season.
 

Every other ‘bad’ moment was upsetting for a day followed by happiness - relegation at stoke was followed by enthusiasm - we had been in a rut for 4 years, it was a welcome relief and I saw a silver lining even at the time and was looking forward to a new start.
Deeney day, gutting but after a day or so I realised we fought hard, Watford were better then us over 2 legs. We wernt ready for the Prem and we had the squad to compete next year, which we did.

This has gutted me harder than ever and I fear will have devastating consequences in the near to distant future. We have missed an absolutely massive opportunity, by sheer ineptness.

".......and are at least the forth best team in the league even now."

 

On what basis do you think this is the case? I'm genuinely curious....

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2 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

This sums up how I feel.

 

I generally look for positives over negatives and even during defeat I try and keep measured but I avoided this place last night because I was seriously mad.

It's wayyyyy too early for a "sack the manager" narrative - he's got a lot of credit in the bank (March-Dec 2019) and we're top four (maybe top five after tonight) so in that respect we should take a step back and pause before going too OTT.

However, after that insane spell last season and this, and after he signed a new deal (I think it's a coincidence more than anything), he's tried to be too clever at times and it's backfired.

He needs to reassess a few things in how he operates (his man management though is very good by and large) and get the ship back on course.

 

What did disappoint me was that he didn't come out and take full responsibility for the defeat, even if it did involve individual players fecking up. He should've taken the heat off them and held his hand up.

I hope, unlike his predecessor, he can learn and evolve. If he doesn't then he'll ultimately go the same way and he can't have any complaints.

 

EDIT: Just to add we were 12th - 18 points behind fifth - when Puel was sacked so we've made big progress since then, notwithstanding the poor form since December. Just trying to find a modicum of balance.

It's wayyyyy too early for a "sack the manager" narrative - Not sure anybody is seriously suggesting this are they?

 

What did disappoint me was that he didn't come out and take full responsibility for the defeat - 100% with you on this.

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1 minute ago, lgfualol said:

I'm no longer angry, just disappointed. Need another break from football. 

This. I don’t why but despite all the other upsets etc. In years of supporting Leicester. This, to me, feels the absolute worst. For the first time in my life, I just don’t want to watch them. This team, I have little respect for. These 6 months and especially yesterday, is just unforgivable. There are very few players who I want in this squad anymore. Too weak and they gave up. I can’t forgive that.

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1 minute ago, Jacnah said:

".......and are at least the forth best team in the league even now."

 

On what basis do you think this is the case? I'm genuinely curious....

Because we are underachieving by giving away stupid points but actually we should be in the top 4 if we performed to our parts.

Chelsea have shown what they are, inconsistent and average, us and united have shown a higher level but also shown how dodgy we can be when we arnt at our best.

Just because we have underperformed and given away points almost like we are being paid off to throw it away on purpose, doesn’t mean that our actual ability isn’t top 4 level.

I think people are looking for a comfort blanket to make them feel better about it when we inevitably throw this away. If ‘we just wernt good enough’ it’s easy to forget right? But the sad reality is, I doubt any of us fans could look in the mirror and honestly believe that we haven’t thrown this away, not from not being good enough, but by an absolute meltdown and ineptness from players, our manager and nearly everyone involved.

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23 minutes ago, Brixtonfox said:

Lots of folks saying they’re disappointed with no Champions League but “happy with Europa”. There’s still some big assumptions there lads. Could easily finish 8th place!

Hope we do, Europa League a waste if space. Our squad is too shit.

 

We need to concentrate on not being relegated next season screw playing Maccabi Tel-Aviv on a Thursday night, then struggling for a 0-0 against Brentford on a Sunday.

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I can only equate it to what Man United fans must have felt after the 5-3.


I remember LVG saying they "had the game in their pocket and gave it away".


That's how I feel about the game.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Because we are underachieving by giving away stupid points but actually we should be in the top 4 if we performed to our parts.

Chelsea have shown what they are, inconsistent and average, us and united have shown a higher level but also shown how dodgy we can be when we arnt at our best.

Just because we have underperformed and given away points almost like we are being paid off to throw it away on purpose, doesn’t mean that our actual ability isn’t top 4 level.

I think people are looking for a comfort blanket to make them feel better about it when we inevitably throw this away. If ‘we just wernt good enough’ it’s easy to forget right? But the sad reality is, I doubt any of us fans could look in the mirror and honestly believe that we haven’t thrown this away, not from not being good enough, but by an absolute meltdown and ineptness from players, our manager and nearly everyone involved.

Do you mean “fourth best team” as in normal 1st XI or squad?

 

Because there’s a fair difference.

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I woke up to the news that Man City's ban had been overturned (no surprise there). I then started to think... if Man U fail to win today and Chelsea lose to Liverpool and Wolves...and then I stopped myself. This team wouldn't beat a Sunday League outfit if required to do so to qualify for the Champions League. They lack fight, guts, determination, belief and leadership. Although I didn't see the extent of the capitulation against Bournemouth coming, I did see us not winning that game after we failed to show the killer instinct required to put them away in the first half. That fear was then further underlined by the cowardly tactical adjustments made at halftime. I hesitate to castigate any of our players for the individual errors and 'rushes of blood' that contributed to the farcical circumstances of our demise yesterday. Instead, I have to point the finger of blame at the coach. The Bournemouth game was a microcosm of what we've been witnessing time and again since Christmas. When the pretty slick football is not enough to get you over the line, you need to show fight, spirit and courage. The title winning team had it and this current squad, although arguably more talented, don't. For me a team is a reflection of the qualities and shortcomings of the coach and therein lies the reason for our failure to capitalize on the platform our wonderful form in the first half of the season had given us. Looking ahead, how do we recover from this?  There will be an inquest in a couple of weeks and I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear Rodger's explanation as to what went wrong and why? Top is no fool and certainly no coward when it comes to making tough decisions, and when the dust settles I have every confidence that he will make the right decision in order to get the club back on track.  

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8 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

I’m still fuming. All this nonsense about a style of play which the fans like is total crap. All the fans are concerned with is if the players care. 

I don't care if we lose games, I don't even care if we are shit. I just want those players to give 100% when the play for 90 minutes. If we get beaten by a better team then fair enough. To give up and roll over, to gift an awful team a 4-1 in such a crucial game is pathetic, to give away such a large lead when even mid table form would suffice is gutless and pathetic.

 

This team are gutless pathetic bottlejobbers, people say we need to see what the reaction is next game, but they have had 6 months to show a reaction and have consistently failed.

 

Rodgers talks of lack of mentality, that is instilled by a manager and a managers tactics. The mentality here is pathetic hiding away when under pressure, not the first time a Rodgers team has done that either. There is no way a Pearson or Dyche team puts in a performance like that against a bottom club.

Edited by Foxin_Mad
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You could have accused the 2012-13 team and Pearson bottling the league and having a poor mentally when we were second in the league at the beginning of February before winning 2 of their following 16 games, before scrapping in the last day against forest. Then suffering the horror of the Play Off game. They could have crumble, but came back the following season and smashed the league.

 

This is our Southampton moment, like when we beat them 9-0, they could have folded but turned it around.

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2 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

You could have accused the 2012-13 team and Pearson bottling the league and having a poor mentally when we were second in the league at the beginning of February before winning 2 of their following 16 games, before scrapping in the last day against forest. Then suffering the horror of the Play Off game. They could have crumble, but came back the following season and smashed the league.

 

This is our Southampton moment, like when we beat them 9-0, they could have folded but turned it around.

We dont want it enough to turn it around

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2 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Do you mean “fourth best team” as in normal 1st XI or squad?

 

Because there’s a fair difference.

Our best 11 is without doubt good enough, squad is closer but with the lead we had , there’s no chance we should of thrown it away.

We have got 21 points from 19 games!! That’s barely just surviving!!

If we even had plain boring average mid table form then we’d have CL locked already!

It makes me sick looking at these stats.

 

Im not claiming we’re some superstar team but there is no doubt in my mind that we have absolutely chucked it away. We put ourselves in such a powerful spot, that EVEN if we were punching and couldn’t maintain those levels , to  drop so dramatically is incredible really.

 

The best way to put it would be after we beat Villa 4-1, if someone said to us fans, 22 games left you need 29 points to get CL. Would you expect there’s any chance we wouldn’t?

29 points in 22 games would be equivalent of roughly 50 points in a typical season! We got more than that with Puels turgid football for 90% of it in 18/19.

So effectively we needed to perform at mid table level for half a season with a squad whose shown they are at least 10th place in ability, to get a CL place and we failed to do it!

Thats why the ‘not good enough’ issue doesn’t wash because the reality is, from the position we were in, we could perform at a ‘not good enough top 4 level’ and still cruise to It!

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1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

We dont want it enough to turn it around

I get your point but the example he gave was Southampton losing 9-0. I’m sure that their fans had that exact thought at that time.

 

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I've calmed down- still wondering how on earth a team could go from looking so comfortable against clearly inferior opposition to taking an absolute shoeing, but I'm no longer angry.

 

It has contributed a great deal to something I realised a while ago though- this doesn't feel like the same club I grew up supporting at the minute. We have changed beyond recognition off the pitch- for the better in many ways, but not in terms of the sterility of everything. I get that we're a family club, but our fan culture is dying rapidly in my opinion. 

 

It's the feeling towards what's happening on the pitch which last night compounded though. We used to have a deep-rooted mentality within the club that it was us against the world, that we were capable of upsetting the odds but we'd have to fight tooth and nail to get it done. Players bought into it.

 

That seems to have disappeared Over the last few years as the talent levels of players has increased. We're capable of playing some brilliant stuff, but we're soft as shite. We're the sort of team we used to love playing against- get into 'em and there's a good chance they'll fold.

 

There needs to be a middle ground somewhere and I'm not sure Rodgers can instill that, and certainly not in some of the members of the team.

 

Anyone else feeling anything similar? Or is it just me being a miserable sod as I gradually fall out of love with the game in general? lol

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