Premier League 2020/21 Thread

[Nalis]

I'm with Man City on this one, if Evans or Wes were caught out by this I'd be annoyed at our defender and not the opposition. 

[ealingfox]

Also Tyrone Mings is a knob and it'll be some time before Villa can complain about teams benefitting from poor decisions without it being extremely rich.

[Tom12345]

22 minutes ago, potter3 said:

 

Mings controlled it i.e. made a deliberate play therefore new phase. 

So the issue is not the law of the game, but interpretation of it. There is no rule defining precisely when the play is reset - you cannot draft it even with the best intentions. Therefore, we can and need to apply common sense and why we have refs. To me, I don’t agree with you. To most, it also seems most don’t agree with you (many were just debating whether the ref had to not call offside because it was mandated by the rule but we established it did not). Mings did not control it. He chested it in, it was coming down to his foot and in that precise moment he was being challenged and he was forced to make a mistake and had the ball stolen. Sorry, that is still very much a player coming from an offside position interfering with play by challenging an opponent (the rule is clear to say that it includes “challenging the opponent” and separately “making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball”). Mings would not have lost it if he was not challenged by a player coming from an offside position.

 

This is just common sense and you can watch the video. 

Edited 21 January 2021 by Tom12345

[Nalis]

I dont think the floodgates will open as much as people think over this.

 

A simple split second look over the shoulder by the defender should nullify the threat, something defenders should be doing anyway.

[Babylon]

22 minutes ago, potter3 said:

 

Mings controlled it i.e. made a deliberate play therefore new phase. 

Nothing in the rules states a thing about "new phase". 

[AjcW]

The thought of Villa ever complaining about a decision again seems baffling, given the only reason they're still in this division is because someone unplugged hawkeye  

[AKCJ]

19 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

There is absolutely zero controversy around the Mings **** up, it's not offside it's just crap defending. If the football media weren't so desperate for a bit of drama they'd have just all done what they should have done which is point out it's really embarrassing that a Premier League manager doesn't know the rules and had some weird Jonathan Pearce style meltdown. 

 

Rodri isn't interfering with play until Mings controls the ball so what's the problem? I don't even agree with the whole Martin Keown "the rule isn't in the spirit of the game" rubbish, what? 

 

If Rodri had openly contested for the initial ball, had put pressure on Mings and forced him to rush and he'd fumbled it or something then I could understand the controversy but Mings doesn't even seem to have considered he's there, he's just casually chesting it down thinking he's got all the time in the world. 

 

Literally a non-issue.

I knew it wasn't offside when Peter Walton said it was offside.

 

Can always rely on him to clear things up. He's an absolute muppet.

[Finnegan]

14 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

Do you think that's because the player has come from being about 15 yards offside? 

 

So get a bit of positional awareness. This is like those hilarious clips where a keeper forgets there's a striker behind him and chucks the ball on the floor to kick it and gets mugged. 

 

It's a defensive mistake. The rules are fine. Literally anyone complaining about it is being a complete moron, without exception. 

[Babylon]

16 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

There is absolutely zero controversy around the Mings **** up, it's not offside it's just crap defending. If the football media weren't so desperate for a bit of drama they'd have just all done what they should have done which is point out it's really embarrassing that a Premier League manager doesn't know the rules and had some weird Jonathan Pearce style meltdown. 

 

Rodri isn't interfering with play until Mings controls the ball so what's the problem? I don't even agree with the whole Martin Keown "the rule isn't in the spirit of the game" rubbish, what? 

 

If Rodri had openly contested for the initial ball, had put pressure on Mings and forced him to rush and he'd fumbled it or something then I could understand the controversy but Mings doesn't even seem to have considered he's there, he's just casually chesting it down thinking he's got all the time in the world. 

 

Literally a non-issue.

I don't know, I've read and re-read the rules and I'm not sure it even covers this scenario. 

 

This is the rule: "A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent." As I said earlier. He didn't receive the ball, he went and took the ball.

 

To anyone talking about a player blocking a cross and getting a toe on it, that's classed as a "deliberate save". 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

12 hours ago, martyn said:

Fulham are better than some of the dross in this league, just lack the finishing touch.

Just like us when we came up.

 

Have to admire Man Utds resolve away from home, thats something like 7 away matches they've won after going behind in the first half, it's an incredible sequence.

[Finnegan]

Just now, Babylon said:

I don't know, I've read and re-read the rules and I'm not sure it even covers this scenario. 

 

This is the rule: "A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent." As I said earlier. He didn't receive the ball, he went and took the ball.

 

To anyone talking about a player blocking a cross and getting a toe on it, that's classed as a "deliberate save". 

 

As soon as Mings controls the ball, his team are in possession and nobody is offside.

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, AjcW said:

The thought of Villa ever complaining about a decision again seems baffling, given the only reason they're still in this division is because someone unplugged hawkeye  

Fair point, f*** em. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

(deleted)

Edited 21 January 2021 by Arriba Los Zorros
not worth it.

[Hoopla10]

6 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I dont think the floodgates will open as much as people think over this.

 

A simple split second look over the shoulder by the defender should nullify the threat, something defenders should be doing anyway.

Mings knew he was there. It's what makes his mistake worse. He sees him in an offside position and takes at least one look back when he's going to chest the ball down. I don't think a floodgate will open, just that it'll be something quick thinking players (like Vardy) will attempt to exploit. Also I'm presuming it's a different ruling but what's stopping a player behind the keeper waiting until he's touched the ball before going in to take the ball of them? I'm sure I've seen that happen and the goal is disallowed. 

 

Pundits and commentators only made a lot of it because it looked really weird. But Pep talks cr@p. I can't stand managers who bang on about VAR and bad refs when it comes to decisions against them then somehow plead they're all impartial and just doing their job when the decision goes their way. It's like when they say it's a pen' when it clearly isn't. Just say it's an unfair ruling, the FA  can't take the goal away after the game ffs. 

 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[filbertway]

16 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

So get a bit of positional awareness. This is like those hilarious clips where a keeper forgets there's a striker behind him and chucks the ball on the floor to kick it and gets mugged. 

 

It's a defensive mistake. The rules are fine. Literally anyone complaining about it is being a complete moron, without exception. 

Positional awareness, what do you mean by that? 

 

I imagine he's thinking "Ah he's offside, I don't need to worry about that, I'll concentrate on this ball coming towards me, no Man City players running at me, I'll bring it down rather than give away possession cheaply"

 

On the plus side, it's easier to stop teams playing out from the back now. Have your forward sat behind the defence and then instruct them to make a challenge when the defender gets the ball. They're allowed to run to the defender, so aren't interfering with play. As soon as the defender touches it, if they try and control it you can be a yard away and nick it off them.

 

This will mean defenders won't make the mistake of trying to control the ball and play football.

 

The precedent is set now and everyone is aware of the leagues interpretation of this rule, I expect to see more teams taking advantage of it now.

 

If anyone was calling that as a goal, and not just because they wanted Villa to lose, before Walton put on his little reading glasses then fair play. I would guess that 95% of football fans and people involved in the game believed that to be offside. The fact an ex referee who's job it is to know the rules and advise on them on live also thought it was is a testament to that.

 

Sincerely

filberway

Complete Moron

 

[Footballwipe]

11 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

The precedent is set now and everyone is aware of the leagues interpretation of this rule, I expect to see more teams taking advantage of it now.

 

 

And yet, they won't. Not least because the goal is being turned into hysterical nonsense by people. I'd be surprised if anyone was even talking about it in 2-4 weeks time.

[Babylon]

45 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

As soon as Mings controls the ball, his team are in possession and nobody is offside.

If only that was mentioned in the laws so clearly and not three pages of ifs, buts and maybes to caveat off dozens of scenarios. It's written like that and gets changed, because people see things like this, it raises questions and then they add a caveat. 

 

This year they added: "Law 11 – Offside Deliberate handball by a defending player is considered ‘deliberate play’ for offside". They'll have added that because at some point, a defender handled the ball, it went to a player and he's been flagged for offside. 

 

So yeah, you can read the caveats and by the laws call him offside. It still feels not really fair to most people, and I wouldn't be shocked to see another caveat to come in, or some more definitions added. Because the caveats that make him onside, as I wrote in the OP were likely added for other scenarios. 

[Babylon]

11 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

And yet, they won't. Not least because the goal is being turned into hysterical nonsense by people. I'd be surprised if anyone was even talking about it in 2-4 weeks time.

Because it's Villa, if that was against Liverpool god help us. 

[Babylon]

26 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Does it say a the bottom "Unless we get a massive cut of the profits". 

[Leeds Fox]

11 hours ago, Nod.E said:

You're asking refs to ignore the rules here. And people want consistency? What's the point in rules if the refs are allowed to make it up as they go along? That really would be chaos.

That rule could’ve been interpreted both ways. Mings couldn’t play the ball the ball and it’s contentious whether he was in control of it when he was tackled. 

[jammie82uk]

Has this already been posted? 
 

 

[Bazly]

Cannot ever recall when the Match Rating on the forum has two new recruits in the top three performers. Looks like good business last Summer, just need Under to get more game time so we can see if he is a keeper or returner at the end of loan period.

[Vestan Pance]

I'm quite surprised that Dean Smith has admitted he didn't know the rules, I also thought it was offside, but I'm an electrician, Dean Smith is a football manager that Villa have trusted to spend £1/4bn on transfer fees, pretty shocking really.

Edited 21 January 2021 by Vestan Pance

[Lambert09]

3 hours ago, Hoopla10 said:

Mings knew he was there. It's what makes his mistake worse. He sees him in an offside position and takes at least one look back when he's going to chest the ball down. I don't think a floodgate will open, just that it'll be something quick thinking players (like Vardy) will attempt to exploit. Also I'm presuming it's a different ruling but what's stopping a player behind the keeper waiting until he's touched the ball before going in to take the ball of them? I'm sure I've seen that happen and the goal is disallowed. 

 

Pundits and commentators only made a lot of it because it looked really weird. But Pep talks cr@p. I can't stand managers who bang on about VAR and bad refs when it comes to decisions against them then somehow plead they're all impartial and just doing their job when the decision goes their way. It's like when they say it's a pen' when it clearly isn't. Just say it's an unfair ruling, the FA  can't take the goal away after the game ffs. 

 

 

Edited 21 January 2021 by Lambert09