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AKCJ

Francisco Trincão

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41 minutes ago, Jacnah said:

Not sure what's what with this particular case, but I agree with what you are saying as a general rule. There are usually to many fingers in the pie for it be kept on the Q.T.

Its a really peculiar deal for us to be trying to do if there's no hope of us getting it done. I think Barca will be tempted but we'll have to pay some reddies up front, e.g £15m for 2 seasons loan. Plus a further £40m at the end of it.

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23 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

Romano is not the sort of journalist that will publish information he doesn't think is genuine. And we are not the sort of side that get named in these sorts of media mind games in transfer sagas - if you wanted a club to act and join the bidding war, you'd say someone 'bigger' than us was interested. Anyone seeing us getting a €50m bid rejected would say 'well I can't see them going any higher' and consider us out of it.

 

We knew about bids for Dennis Praet in June, and didn't sign him until deadline day. If we're the ones bidding it usually means we are favourites - the Italian press tried to stir up that Milan were interested in Praet but I'm not sure they ever were.

 

La Liga starts on the same day our season does, and Braga's season finished on 27 July. You would therefore expect Trincao himself is on holiday now and probably until the end of next week. So it will probably be a while before anything is to be agreed for him.

 

City don't bid for players they aren't confident of getting. Talks wouldn't still 'be on' if they weren't confident of getting the player. They wouldn't stand by and watch other quality players get snapped up while they pursued an impossible deal.

 

I think it's got a real chance, if Trincao wants games, who better than us is going to play him every week?

Your last point being valid. If Barca were interested in playing him, he wouldn’t have gone back to Braga on loan. I have a suspicion they have told him he won’t be playing next season... and Barca love a profit, it’s not like they will struggle to sign quality players once he has gone. Likely hood is he knows he won’t get game time, there is a euro’s around the corner and he won’t get into the Portuguese squad just because he plays for Barca. I think there is sauce to this, Brendan has had a taste and likes it. 

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I wonder what a signing like this (if we did pull it off) would mean for our transfer budget? 

 

Would the loan element of it allow us to spend decent money elsewhere? 

 

Is the loan element of it because we won't be spending  much this summer due to the climate?

 

Are we just going all out and spanking cash all over the squad and making a real go of it? 

 

It will be interesting to see how this plans out.

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2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

These are very good questions. IMO it's because we can't afford to spend as much this summer, which should be the case across Europe due to Coronavirus. We know for a fact we lose 14m in matchday revenues alone from the Premier League plus additional revenue shares from cup games. Then take into account missed revenue from the club shop on match days too, etc. Even Man City who have already spent have gone for Ake and Torres who whilst both good players aren't their usual "top level proven" type of signings they usually go for. So a 2 year loan deal with obligation to buy seems fair - we get the player right away but don't pay for 2 years by which time we all assume life is somewhat normal again (though honestly, who knows!?). For that convenience we pay a premium on the transfer free.

 

We'd then be free to make a few more signings and I imagine a Premier League experienced centre back comes in for the bigger cash up front fee this summer. Other signings will probably be a mixture of loans with obligations and more modest 10-20m fees. Even if Chilwell left, I think we'd continue to go for more balanced signings for the most part. Attacking players could be the exception and I could definitely imagine Edouard rocking up here in time for the start of the season too as the marquee summer signing this year.

 

As it stands given our diabolical end of season form and massive amount of games next season, the squad needs to be seriously bolstered, otherwise we'll be in trouble. So creative accounting is pretty clever and I think we will see it across the league this window.

Pretty much my thinking on all of this. 

 

I think we will still spend decent money on either a striker or a CB, the other we will get in someone who will divide opinion but for a modest sum. 

Then I can see a Eze or a Cantwell coming in for £18m/£20m and that will be it. 

 

My calls are..  

 

This fella (maybe)

Either Edouard as our big signing or Demiral as our marquee.

The Kosovoan or Lascelles depending on who our marquee signing is and either Eze or Cantwell to cover CAM and LW. 

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2 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

I wonder what a signing like this (if we did pull it off) would mean for our transfer budget? 

 

Would the loan element of it allow us to spend decent money elsewhere? 

 

Is the loan element of it because we won't be spending  much this summer due to the climate?

 

Are we just going all out and spanking cash all over the squad and making a real go of it? 

 

It will be interesting to see how this plans out.

I’m curious as to what the loan fee would be. They apparently want £18m for Coutinho on loan for a year but I can’t imagine they could demand anywhere near that for this kid. 

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14 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I’m curious as to what the loan fee would be. They apparently want £18m for Coutinho on loan for a year but I can’t imagine they could demand anywhere near that for this kid. 

I don’t think there will be any loan fee if it’s an obligation to buy. If we are obligated to sign the player then as far as bank accounting goes, it will already be cashed in for that season and on the books, hence a larger fee. 
 

Of course no deal has gone ahead yet so a renegotiation may change my statement. But realistically the reason why Coutinho and James Rodriguez have loan fees is because clubs can’t afford him and the players are depreciating in value. This signing represents pure upside hence unlikely to be seasonal fees. As an example PSG “loaned” Mbappe for a season then gave Monaco 180m 12 months later. 
 

 

Edited by StriderHiryu
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1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

I don’t think there will be any loan fee if it’s an obligation to buy. If we are obligated to sign the player then as far as bank accounting goes, it will already be cashed in for that season and on the books, hence a larger fee. 
 

Of course no deal has gone ahead yet so a renegotiation may change my statement. But realistically the reason why Coutinho and James Rodriguez have loan fees is because clubs can’t afford him and the players are depreciating in value. This signing represents pure upside hence unlikely to be seasonal fees. As an example PSG “loaned” Mbappe for a season then gave Monaco 180m 12 months later. 
 

 

I’ve never actually understood the whole 'loan with an obligation to buy’ term. Why wouldn’t these things just go through as a sale? I get that you don’t pay until the end of the season but surely you could just add that in to the sale terms. 

 

Is it something to do with FFP? Or is it because the player isn’t willing to take a lower wage until this season is over? 

 

Anyone know if a player can pull out of these or the contracts with them have to be tied up beforehand? 

 

I was curious about this with Bennett, would we have a pre-agreed contract already signed in case he made the obligation clause? I’m just thinking that if he hated it with us, could he have turned around and said actually I’m not signing? 

 

 

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3 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

I’m curious as to what the loan fee would be. They apparently want £18m for Coutinho on loan for a year but I can’t imagine they could demand anywhere near that for this kid. 

I mean, as long as that fee was knocked off the eventual price of him, I don't suppose it matters all that much....

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6 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

I’ve never actually understood the whole 'loan with an obligation to buy’ term. Why wouldn’t these things just go through as a sale? I get that you don’t pay until the end of the season but surely you could just add that in to the sale terms. 

 

Is it something to do with FFP? Or is it because the player isn’t willing to take a lower wage until this season is over? 

 

Anyone know if a player can pull out of these or the contracts with them have to be tied up beforehand? 

 

I was curious about this with Bennett, would we have a pre-agreed contract already signed in case he made the obligation clause? I’m just thinking that if he hated it with us, could he have turned around and said actually I’m not signing? 

 

 

It will be down to ffp as it basically gives the club a season or 2’s pass on putting said buy through the books in turn leaving more wriggle room to spend on other players!

in the current climate and uncertainty after the pandemic I can see quite a few of these deals happening with clubs abroad, it also gives the selling club something to potentially get a loan against as they’re guaranteed x/y/z amount in a year or 2

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Guest Cujek
17 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

All I know is he's got 88 Potential on FIFA

who does that compare with, in known player terms?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Cujek said:

who does that compare with, in known player terms?

 

 

Pretty sure Son was 88 rated this year 

 

Edit: nevermind he was 87 😂 Sterling was 88

Edited by Dylster
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23 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

https://www.goal.com/en/news/who-are-the-best-attackers-on-fifa-20/dmo3v9r4nbtm1x1bswlzehl6o

 

Aubameyang, Cavani, Mane and Sterling all have an 88 rating.

You misunderstand. Each player on Fifa has an overall rating and a potential rating. For example Sandro Tonali has an overall of 79 but a potential of 91 as he's young. Some players are obviously over rated and some the opposite. Trincao has overall of 75 but potential of 88. 

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9 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

These are very good questions. IMO it's because we can't afford to spend as much this summer, which should be the case across Europe due to Coronavirus. We know for a fact we lose 14m in matchday revenues alone from the Premier League plus additional revenue shares from cup games. Then take into account missed revenue from the club shop on match days too, etc. Even Man City who have already spent have gone for Ake and Torres who whilst both good players aren't their usual "top level proven" type of signings they usually go for. So a 2 year loan deal with obligation to buy seems fair - we get the player right away but don't pay for 2 years by which time we all assume life is somewhat normal again (though honestly, who knows!?). For that convenience we pay a premium on the transfer free.

 

We'd then be free to make a few more signings and I imagine a Premier League experienced centre back comes in for the bigger cash up front fee this summer. Other signings will probably be a mixture of loans with obligations and more modest 10-20m fees. Even if Chilwell left, I think we'd continue to go for more balanced signings for the most part. Attacking players could be the exception and I could definitely imagine Edouard rocking up here in time for the start of the season too as the marquee summer signing this year.

 

As it stands given our diabolical end of season form and massive amount of games next season, the squad needs to be seriously bolstered, otherwise we'll be in trouble. So creative accounting is pretty clever and I think we will see it across the league this window.

Whilst I'm not totally au fait with the clubs financial predicament I disagree slightly with this (being a seasoned fan on here im sure you'll ridicule me for saying this 🙈).

 

We haven't spent big until the CL season and even then it wasn't massive. Our net spent year on year has been negligible. Teams around us are spending big. European teams have more leeway in ffp. Aside from that you don't see teams around and below us drawing their purse strings. With players leaving the club on decent salaries and ones out of contract. I agred that coronovirus has knocked our finances but it has everyone's.

 

We are a (temporarily some would say) a top 6 club and i would have thought that now is exactly the time to spend on the right players. Tottenham collapsed because of DL's  spending attitude and went backwards. Now is that time to make a sensible gamble like all of the top clubs. I fear if we don't then with our current squad we will significantly go backwards. 

 

Go easy on me me for this.....

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37 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

You misunderstand. Each player on Fifa has an overall rating and a potential rating. For example Sandro Tonali has an overall of 79 but a potential of 91 as he's young. Some players are obviously over rated and some the opposite. Trincao has overall of 75 but potential of 88. 

I don't misunderstand. I know all that. I assumed the question was asking what a rating of 88 means in terms of current player ability, as looking at another player with a potential of 88 doesn't tell you very much.

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28 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

Whilst I'm not totally au fait with the clubs financial predicament I disagree slightly with this (being a seasoned fan on here im sure you'll ridicule me for saying this 🙈).

 

We haven't spent big until the CL season and even then it wasn't massive. Our net spent year on year has been negligible. Teams around us are spending big. European teams have more leeway in ffp. Aside from that you don't see teams around and below us drawing their purse strings. With players leaving the club on decent salaries and ones out of contract. I agred that coronovirus has knocked our finances but it has everyone's.

 

We are a (temporarily some would say) a top 6 club and i would have thought that now is exactly the time to spend on the right players. Tottenham collapsed because of DL's  spending attitude and went backwards. Now is that time to make a sensible gamble like all of the top clubs. I fear if we don't then with our current squad we will significantly go backwards. 

 

Go easy on me me for this.....

All reasonable points and I personally would agree with you. Counter point would be that King Power made their fortune with Duty Free and with Air Travel being one of the worst hit industries globally, would you as a multi-national business conglomerate owner decide that now was the time to spend big on what is essentially your passion project business? It would be 100% understandable if spend was reduced this season because of the pandemic.

 

Also thus far only Man City have signed any players, and with David Silva, Fernandinho and Kompany all having reached the ends of their careers, it's understandable they would replace them. Even then, they have replaced players modestly by their standards, e.g. Ferran Torres cost 20m, but they sold Sane for 54m.

 

 

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1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

All reasonable points and I personally would agree with you. Counter point would be that King Power made their fortune with Duty Free and with Air Travel being one of the worst hit industries globally, would you as a multi-national business conglomerate owner decide that now was the time to spend big on what is essentially your passion project business? It would be 100% understandable if spend was reduced this season because of the pandemic.

 

Also thus far only Man City have signed any players, and with David Silva, Fernandinho and Kompany all having reached the ends of their careers, it's understandable they would replace them. Even then, they have replaced players modestly by their standards, e.g. Ferran Torres cost 20m, but they sold Sane for 54m.

 

 

Baring in mind they cannot just pump money in to us to " spend big " its not really mutually exclusive. The only point of interest would be if they actually tried to pocket some of the bast revenue the club generates in the PL but I doubt they'd do that. They are billionaires and £150m a year that the club generates is still way below what they've been pulling in. We are OK for a fair few years before Top needs to come and crack the club shops tills open.

 

With FFP slightly relaxed, now is exactly the right time to try and recruit more than we have in the last few seasons. Whether that's by shelling out more or trying to be creative about the payment terms, we should and probably will push it.

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4 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

All reasonable points and I personally would agree with you. Counter point would be that King Power made their fortune with Duty Free and with Air Travel being one of the worst hit industries globally, would you as a multi-national business conglomerate owner decide that now was the time to spend big on what is essentially your passion project business? It would be 100% understandable if spend was reduced this season because of the pandemic.

 

Also thus far only Man City have signed any players, and with David Silva, Fernandinho and Kompany all having reached the ends of their careers, it's understandable they would replace them. Even then, they have replaced players modestly by their standards, e.g. Ferran Torres cost 20m, but they sold Sane for 54m.

 

 

Thanks for that appreciated and makes sense. Can I ask about Chelsea? Are they spending so much because of the transfer ban last year i.e their ffp carrys over into a double spend? It seems insane what they are doing.

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After re-reading Fabrizio’s tweet, he seems very positive “Still no agreement with Barca - but talks are on” that’s given me all the hope I need, and the fact we wouldn’t bid if we didn’t think we had a chance like someone else has already said 

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