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davieG

Our Internationals 2020/21

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1 hour ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Playing for the Chelsea academy is a surefire way of guaranteeing a start for England, given Steve Holland, Southgate's assistant, is the ex youth team coach at Chelsea. Only explanation for why the very average Mount is now a fixture in midfield over far more talented players.

Your Steve Holland point seems fairly spot on. But the Mount issue has been pushed a tad OTT, he is a decent player even though the amount of time given to him in respect to others is a bit staggering. 

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30 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Not convinced he is so much better than Maddison or Grealish that he is a guaranteed starter as a number 8 or even on the wing for England.

He's nowhere near as good as Phil Foden put it that way. Maddison I can see why he isn't in at the min as he's had injury problems but even if he didn't I'm not so sure Southgate would have him in. He will need to be playing out of his skin with more goals and assists than Mount posts to get another call up. He's made it clear he doesn't really rate him.

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18 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Germany France and Portugal all come out of one group! I have a feeling that the second in our group play the winner or second of that group 

2nd in our group will play Spain, Poland, Slovakia or Sweden. 

 

1st in our group will play Germany, Portugal of France. 

Edited by Foxy_Bear
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I understand the frustration at the perceived preference for ‘big 6’ players but I think given the way Southgate is looking to set up atm in a 3-4-3 with 4 right backs on the pitch, Madders and Barnes face a lot of strong competition for those places. As they do for us in that set up I think Gareth sees them as playing in that front 3 either side of the striker, and I don’t think Southgate believes Maddison can play in that central midfield 2, preferring more defensive minded players ie. Henderson, Winks, Rice and Phillips for example. So Madders and Barnes as well as they have been playing therefore face competition for their places from Sterling, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford for example. 

 

So whether you think England’s current set up is right or wrong, I think they might struggle to break into the side barring a great run of form or injuries to those listed above. The benefit to us is that they stay rested and can focus more on Leicester so you won’t hear me complaining too much :scarf:

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On 12/11/2020 at 23:15, HighPeakFox said:

I wonder if Jonny Evans might consider international retirement now.

He might stay an international player to seek out 2 more added years after being with us at another club I.e. promoting himself?

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13 hours ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

 

We sit top of the PL with a good few English players, so the selection process seems almost unbelievable.

 

I'm not too fussed about England myself as LCFC comes first for me. However, it makes you realise why players might want to move to one of the 'Sky 6', which will guarantee England selection even if not in form.

I find the FA an old "gentleman's club" again from the 18th century and made by the only person who could, Southgate. It was a massive mistake to let him roll over from managing the U21's to the full national team and it should never happen again.

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15 minutes ago, Foxes96 said:

I understand the frustration at the perceived preference for ‘big 6’ players but I think given the way Southgate is looking to set up atm in a 3-4-3 with 4 right backs on the pitch, Madders and Barnes face a lot of strong competition for those places. As they do for us in that set up I think Gareth sees them as playing in that front 3 either side of the striker, and I don’t think Southgate believes Maddison can play in that central midfield 2, preferring more defensive minded players ie. Henderson, Winks, Rice and Phillips for example. So Madders and Barnes as well as they have been playing therefore face competition for their places from Sterling, Sancho, Grealish and Rashford for example. 

 

So whether you think England’s current set up is right or wrong, I think they might struggle to break into the side barring a great run of form or injuries to those listed above. The benefit to us is that they stay rested and can focus more on Leicester so you won’t hear me complaining too much :scarf:

Yes, some very well made points here. I guess if I were Maddison, though, I would feel hacked off that just over a year ago Mount jumped me in the queue after 2 goodish games for Chelsea at the start of last season when I'd already had an excellent full season in the PL and posted much better numbers than Mount in the Championship before that. 

 

At that time England were playing 433 so there was definitely scope for Maddison to play as an 8 then. But, if I recall, Maddison was told instead that he needed to show he could be consistent over time in the PL before getting an England call up - funny how Mount didn't have to do that before nailing a place. Mount even played as a wide forward v Belgium recently, to shoehorn him into the team, despite the fact that we are spoilt for choice with top quality natural wide forwards. Grealish has been treated in a very similar fashion to Maddison, and it makes you think Foden might be too.

 

All this said, I'm not that bothered if our players get called up for England any more. Would rather they get some rest and avoid being tapped up by big 6 players. Plus if none of our players are involved I don't have to suffer watching England games!

Edited by Sunbury Fox
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7 minutes ago, Foxes96 said:

So whether you think England’s current set up is right or wrong, I think they might struggle to break into the side barring a great run of form or injuries to those listed above. The benefit to us is that they stay rested and can focus more on Leicester so you won’t hear me complaining too much :scarf:

The worry is they might starting looking elsewhere if they aren't getting picked by England.

 

  

1 hour ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Not convinced he is so much better than Maddison or Grealish that he is a guaranteed starter as a number 8 or even on the wing for England.

I do wonder what the pundits and managers see in Mount. He's a good player no doubt, but Grealish seems to be fantastic. I support Maddison, but I do think at this point in time Grealish is the better player. 

 

Maybe the lack of hard-tackling ball-recovering central midfielders is impacting negatively on Grealish, and they see Mount as a player more willing to provide support in the middle-third of the pitch. England lack a defensive spine at present which would enable a more stacked assortment of attacking-minded players.

 

Pickford and Maguire have lost their heads, Keane is solid but not top-class, Coady, TAA and Jomez are injured. With injuries, controversies and arguably bad selection, England lack an established backline. Southgate has been chopping and changing like an indecisive transsexual. 

 

The lack of defensive assertiveness, coupled with the lack of top-class English players capable of doing the dirty work in midifield does not set an excellent foundation for players who have a permanent residency and PO box in the final third a la Grealish.

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1 minute ago, majaco said:

Gareth Southgate"s all time England 11

 

GK: Danny Mills

RB: Vardy.  CBS:. Kyle Walker, Trent AA, LB: Phil Neale

Midfield:. Danny Mills, Kieran Trippier, Steve Whitworth

Forwards:. Gary Stevens, Glenn Johnson, Aaron Wam Bissaka

On second thoughts, he'd have Mason Mount instead of Vardy

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Haven't England  always been reluctant to play creative players. Players like Hoddle and even Gascoigne always had to fight to be regular starters.

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43 minutes ago, davieG said:

Haven't England  always been reluctant to play creative players. Players like Hoddle and even Gascoigne always had to fight to be regular starters.

 

53 Caps and two World Cup squads suggests otherwise.

Edited by Buce
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29 minutes ago, davieG said:

Haven't England  always been reluctant to play creative players. Players like Hoddle and even Gascoigne always had to fight to be regular starters.

With Gazza it was down to himself that took him out the side at times, otherwise on ability alone he would have been first on the team sheet of every England squad in the 90’s. 

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Although the Euros this summer ought to be great fun with all of our games at Wembley but truth be told without everything returning to normal with fans being able to attend and get garried without social distancing then I actually hope we get destroyed and dumped out in the group stages. Southgate needs getting rid of and we aren't going to win it so let's have another national disgrace and get him gone.

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2 hours ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Yes, some very well made points here. I guess if I were Maddison, though, I would feel hacked off that just over a year ago Mount jumped me in the queue after 2 goodish games for Chelsea at the start of last season when I'd already had an excellent full season in the PL and posted much better numbers than Mount in the Championship before that. 

 

At that time England were playing 433 so there was definitely scope for Maddison to play as an 8 then. But, if I recall, Maddison was told instead that he needed to show he could be consistent over time in the PL before getting an England call up - funny how Mount didn't have to do that before nailing a place. Mount even played as a wide forward v Belgium recently, to shoehorn him into the team, despite the fact that we are spoilt for choice with top quality natural wide forwards. Grealish has been treated in a very similar fashion to Maddison, and it makes you think Foden might be too.

 

All this said, I'm not that bothered if our players get called up for England any more. Would rather they get some rest and avoid being tapped up by big 6 players. Plus if none of our players are involved I don't have to suffer watching England games!

I'm completely with you on this. Southgate is just a glorified scout leader.

 

He just doesn't seem to trust flair players. It will be his, and England's, downfall in the latter stages of major tournaments when you need real quality to create chances. He lucked out at the last World Cup, but still failed miserably whenever we played a decent team. You can't win a tournament when most of your goals are scored by penalties.

 

I'm no fan of Grealish, but you can see his qualities and he should've had a lot more minutes for England in the past 12 months. He's physically stronger than Maddison, but I think Maddison has the edge in turning and going past defenders. Grealish rarely goes past anyone, as there's always contact! :whistle:

 

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4 hours ago, davieG said:

Haven't England  always been reluctant to play creative players. Players like Hoddle and even Gascoigne always had to fight to be regular starters.

I think part of the problem, certainly  when talking about Hoddle or le Tissier, was the complete reliance upon the 442 formation. 

 

Interestingly, in 1990, when Gascoigne shone, England lined up in a 532. And that was only after the players themselves persuaded Robson to switch!

 

Edited by Plastik Man
Tissier
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2 hours ago, davieG said:

Haven't England  always been reluctant to play creative players. Players like Hoddle and even Gascoigne always had to fight to be regular starters.

Add Alan Hudson, Peter Osgood, Rodney Marsh, Stan Bowles to the list

 

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Southgate has decided how he wants to play. He wants 3 at the back, wing backs, 2 sitting midfielders, 2 fast wide attackers and Kane. If that's what he wants then he should stick with it as first tactic. He then lives or dies by that. 

 

However, essentially he's playing wing backs and wingers though and we look lacking in the central areas.

 

Maddison does not fit into Southgates system although he has shown so far that he can play in the front 3 but he won't stay side. I don't think Southgate prefers Grealish in this formation either, but his form and improvements have forced him into it. Same will be with Foden too. 

 

Southgate is right to play with players who fit in with the way he wants to play, rather than picking players to play different roles. 

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1 hour ago, Plastik Man said:

I think part of the problem, certainly  when talking about Hoddle or le Tissington, was the complete reliance upon the 442 formation. 

 

Interestingly, in 1990, when Gascoigne shone, England lined up in a 532. And that was only after the players themselves persuaded Robson to switch!

 

 

3 hours ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

With Gazza it was down to himself that took him out the side at times, otherwise on ability alone he would have been first on the team sheet of every England squad in the 90’s. 

Mind you, there was a spell in the 90s when Gazza had some shockers for England. Right up to the Scotland game in 96 a lot of the media were calling for Tel to leave him out.

Luckily he ignored them. 

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