Harvey Barnes

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Sampson said:

 

Because I think other players have shown a lot more than one of our players?

 

Harvey clearly has potential, but it's hardly controversial to say he hasnt shown himself to be as good consistenly yet as the likes of Sterling, Sancho, Rashford and Grealish and is behind them in England's pecking order.

 

I think almost every non-Leicester fan would agree with it in fact.

 

We don't need to get prissy all the time just because other players are ahead of one of our players when there's perfectly valid reasons for it given their consistent form over a number of years.

 

Barnes has started the season really well. But he's had one very streaky and inconsistent season at Premier League level in his career. He's not proven himself enough yet.

Barnes can walk on water, I've seen it. 

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, Sampson said:

 

Because I think other players have shown a lot more than one of our players?

 

Harvey clearly has potential, but it's hardly controversial to say he hasnt shown himself to be as good consistenly yet as the likes of Sterling, Sancho, Rashford and Grealish and is behind them in England's pecking order.

 

I think almost every non-Leicester fan would agree with it in fact.

 

We don't need to get prissy all the time just because other players are ahead of one of our players when there's perfectly valid reasons for it given their consistent form over a number of years.

 

Barnes has started the season really well. But he's had one very streaky and inconsistent season at Premier League level in his career. He's not proven himself enough yet.

Last season Barnes got 7 goals and 9 assists in all competitions. Grealish got 10 goals and 8 assists. There really wasn't a lot in it. Grealish is a superb player though who I think England should build their team around.

 

I do think Barnes has a place in England's squad long term though, as he is different to Rashford, Sterling and Grealish. Sancho plays wide right. 

 

He needs an incredible season to move up the pecking order though come next summers Euros and a smaller squad to be part of. I wouldn't rule it out though, his creativity is up there with the best we have in this country. 

[Al-aLondon-Foxile]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Last season Barnes got 7 goals and 9 assists in all competitions. Grealish got 10 goals and 8 assists. There really wasn't a lot in it. Grealish is a superb player though who I think England should build their team around.

 

I do think Barnes has a place in England's squad long term though, as he is different to Rashford, Sterling and Grealish. Sancho plays wide right. 

 

He needs an incredible season to move up the pecking order though come next summers Euros and a smaller squad to be part of. I wouldn't rule it out though, his creativity is up there with the best we have in this country. 

I agree with you. Grealish seems to make time on the ball for himself, he’s really improved from his breakthrough season in the EPL before they were relegated. Barnes offers something a little different, but he’s down the order for me as far as England is concerned at this point. 

[Stadt]

30 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

I wish I saw in him what everyone else does.

 

Don't get me wrong,  he creates a lot of opportunities for himself but its a rarity for him to ever actually score at the end of it.

 

Seems to be hyped up as a Messi on here. Very bandwagon esque.

 

 

 

*Disclaimer*

 

Its just my opinion 

“It’s a rarity for him to ever actually score at the end of it” he scores 0.2 goals per 90 minutes for us across his Leicester career so far 

[Ric Flair]

40 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

I wish I saw in him what everyone else does.

 

Don't get me wrong,  he creates a lot of opportunities for himself but its a rarity for him to ever actually score at the end of it.

 

Seems to be hyped up as a Messi on here. Very bandwagon esque.

 

 

 

*Disclaimer*

 

Its just my opinion 

He creates a lot of opportunities for others, that's his biggest strength right now. You can't teach that.

[Foxxed]

35 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Southgate is wank anyway. He is a little bitch who just wants to please the FA. 

I’m bored... What’s he doing to please the FA that other managers probably wouldn’t?

[Ric Flair]

40 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

I wish I saw in him what everyone else does.

 

Don't get me wrong,  he creates a lot of opportunities for himself but its a rarity for him to ever actually score at the end of it.

 

Seems to be hyped up as a Messi on here. Very bandwagon esque.

 

 

 

*Disclaimer*

 

Its just my opinion 

He creates a lot of opportunities for others, that's his biggest strength right now. You can't teach that.

[KingsX]

I thought he looked like one of the few sharp knives in the drawer yesterday.  Sharp runs, sharp controls and turns, a couple of good forward passes.

 

Just a cameo, but you had to be impressed.

[Pliskin]

23 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I’m bored... What’s he doing to please the FA that other managers probably wouldn’t?

Just wait until the euros and you'll see.

[murphy]

1 hour ago, adejo92 said:

I wish I saw in him what everyone else does.

Don't get me wrong,  he creates a lot of opportunities for himself but its a rarity for him to ever actually score at the end of it.

Seems to be hyped up as a Messi on here. Very bandwagon esque.

 

*Disclaimer*

 

Its just my opinion 

 

 

[Oldblueyes]

He is a prime subject of the "you would be a better player in a better team" scenario. One of the England/Man U players have probably already had a word in his ear.

 

At his current level with Madders,  they won't get much of a chance at International level

 

[adejo92]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

“It’s a rarity for him to ever actually score at the end of it” he scores 0.2 goals per 90 minutes for us across his Leicester career so far 

 

42 minutes ago, murphy said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

He creates a lot of opportunities for others, that's his biggest strength right now. You can't teach that.

 

I am not saying he is a bad player, but the amount of games he's missed sitter after sitter and we have had to rely upon someone else to get us the decisive goal. He's a good prospect but far from amazing. If he wasn't home grown he wouldn't get half this hype.

 

I am going to make more of a conservative effort to watch him closely as i really want to appreciate him as much as everyone else.

Edited 9 October 2020 by adejo92

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, adejo92 said:

 

 

 

I am not saying he is a bad player, but the amount of games he's missed sitter after sitter and we have had to rely upon someone else to get us the decisive goal. He's a good prospect but far from amazing. If he wasn't home grown he wouldn't get half this hype.

 

I am going to make more of a conservative effort to watch him closely as i really want to appreciate him as much as everyone else.

He is our biggest chance creator from open play,set up Vardy for almost every penalty this season. His final ball has improved significantly. If and when he improves his finishing he will be a monster of a player.

[shailen]

England haven't got a player like Barnes. Someone who is nearly as quick as Sterling, as good as Grealish at dribbling and as strong as Kane. He'll be some player if he can finish on a regular basis. We all know this but add that to his game and he'll be amongst the best in the league. I genuinely believe that 

[NaijaFox]

6 hours ago, adejo92 said:

I wish I saw in him what everyone else does.

 

Don't get me wrong,  he creates a lot of opportunities for himself but its a rarity for him to ever actually score at the end of it.

 

Seems to be hyped up as a Messi on here. Very bandwagon esque.

 

 

*Disclaimer*

 

Its just my opinion 

Even for FT more than a tad bit hyperbolic to infer that Barnes is “hyped up as a Messi on here” (even allowing that you probably didn’t mean that literally). He is a very good young player (and a solid prospect to become somewhat great) and is deservedly recognized for that and for his obvious progression (see Gray in comparison). Yes, we may all be a bit inherently biased, but it is not solely because he is an academy product (see Chilwell, whom I personally like, in comparison). 

[dmayne7]

21 minutes ago, shailen said:

England haven't got a player like Barnes. Someone who is nearly as quick as Sterling, as good as Grealish at dribbling and as strong as Kane. He'll be some player if he can finish on a regular basis. We all know this but add that to his game and he'll be amongst the best in the league. I genuinely believe that 

This is the point with Barnes, it's not even that he's an amazing talent, it's that he's a pretty unique wide player.

 

Was trying to think who best to compare him to with the pace and power and I guess Bale is probably the closest. Not saying he's at that level and he's still a different type of player but even if you're not sold on Harvey's ability you need to recognise the threat he carries. There's a reason we haven't looked at left sided player recently.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

He's going to have to have one of the best seasons any young player has ever had to make the squad, never mind the team. And that's fair enough, the players ahead of him are putting up silly numbers, sancho and sterling in particular. He'll have to have over 25,maybe even 30 direct goal involvements this year to even stand a chance. 

[Bourbon Fox]

9 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

He's going to have to have one of the best seasons any young player has ever had to make the squad, never mind the team. And that's fair enough, the players ahead of him are putting up silly numbers, sancho and sterling in particular. He'll have to have over 25,maybe even 30 direct goal involvements this year to even stand a chance. 

Your username is perfect

How things change 😁

 

[Ric Flair]

22 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

He's going to have to have one of the best seasons any young player has ever had to make the squad, never mind the team. And that's fair enough, the players ahead of him are putting up silly numbers, sancho and sterling in particular. He'll have to have over 25,maybe even 30 direct goal involvements this year to even stand a chance. 

Too be honest if he gets less than 20 then he probably doesn't deserve to be part of the national team yet, bit I don't see him being that far behind Grealish, Sterling and Rashford for the LW spot. Grealish has started the season like a man possessed mind you.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

He's not that far behind but he is behind, and playing for us won't help his cause. 

 

And as for that comment about Steve guppy. How very dare you. 

[Sampson]

15 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Too be honest if he gets less than 20 then he probably doesn't deserve to be part of the national team yet, bit I don't see him being that far behind Grealish, Sterling and Rashford for the LW spot. Grealish has started the season like a man possessed mind you.

He's miles behind Sterling.

 

Sterling has been doing it for several seasons now.

 

Barnes would have to approaching PFA Player of the Year levels this season to oust Sterling by the Euros.

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, Sampson said:

He's miles behind Sterling.

 

Sterling has been doing it for several seasons now.

 

Barnes would have to approaching PFA Player of the Year levels this season to oust Sterling by the Euros.

Sterling has been hugely inconsistent for club and country in the last 6 seasons, but in the last couple he has really turned it on for England and for the most part Man City up to the end of 2019. I do feel in 2020 he has been fairly mediocre by his standards for Man City. He is also not a creative player but more of a goalscoring winger, likewise Rashford who is a striker who is shoehorned out wide at times.

 

Grealish is the number one player in that position for me, but maybe England would look to him playing as the more advanced central midfielder in a 4-1-4-1 and having Sterling, Rashford or Barnes wide left. 

 

Barnes is a very good dribbler, very strong and his final ball is becoming too drawer. Needs to improve his first touch and his finishing and he will be as good as those above him, his ability to find space in the box cannot be taught.

[Sampson]

24 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Sterling has been hugely inconsistent for club and country in the last 6 seasons, but in the last couple he has really turned it on for England and for the most part Man City up to the end of 2019. I do feel in 2020 he has been fairly mediocre by his standards for Man City. He is also not a creative player but more of a goalscoring winger, likewise Rashford who is a striker who is shoehorned out wide at times.

 

Grealish is the number one player in that position for me, but maybe England would look to him playing as the more advanced central midfielder in a 4-1-4-1 and having Sterling, Rashford or Barnes wide left. 

 

Barnes is a very good dribbler, very strong and his final ball is becoming too drawer. Needs to improve his first touch and his finishing and he will be as good as those above him, his ability to find space in the box cannot be taught.

Sterling has scored 18, 17 and 20 Premier League goals from the wing in the last 3 seasons respectively - that's 55 league goals in the last 3 seasons  and has scored 9 goals in 11 caps for England in the last 2 years.

Sterling has been a long way from "hugely inconsistent for club and country for the last 6 seasons". He *was* hugely inconsistent about 5 years ago, but he's one of the best attacking players in the Premier League and consistently turned it on for England over the past 2 or 3 years too. It was only 2 years ago he won Footballer of the Year.

In his mediocre season last season he still scored 20 Premier League goals and was one of the top scorers in the country and still had a much, much better season than Barnes did last season. Yet Barnes has still shown nothing like that yet even at his best.

Barnes is miles behind Sterling's level at current - absolutely everyone who isn't a Leicester fan will tell you that. It was only a couple of months ago we were all saying how bad Barnes had looked since the restart and he'd fallen behind Albrighton and Perez in the pecking order towards the end of last season. Barnes definitely has potential, we all know that, but he is also an incredibly streaky and inconsistent player who has had more stinkers for us so far than he has had great games if we're honest (which may just be a case of age, but we don't know that yet).

You're changing the goalposts to favourably suit Barnes here - Sterling has been great for England for the past couple of years and now you're making it about who is the better dribbler? It doesn't matter about a single attribute when Sterling has been doing the business. - You're deliberately trying to shoehorn an England team to play a way which suits Barnes and which puts Barnes in it when he's nowhere near the player England should be building their team around.

Barnes would have to have a crazy season this season to displace Sterling - and by that I mean a season as good as Mahrez in our title winning campaign. Maybe he's capable of it, but it's just speculation at this stage and he's absolutely miles behind Sterling right now until he has that season - and every non-Leicester fan would absolutely be scathing at us for suggesting Barnes is close at this stage of his career.

This is the kind of conversation where if Barnes played for Everton or Wolves we'd all be laughing at Everton or Wolves fans and calling Southgate useless for even suggesting Barnes start ahead of Sterling in the Euros.

Edited 9 October 2020 by Sampson

[Ric Flair]

20 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Sterling has scored 18, 17 and 20 Premier League goals from the wing in the last 3 seasons respectively - that's 55 league goals in the last 3 seasons  and has scored 9 goals in 11 caps for England in the last 2 years.

Sterling has been a long way from "hugely inconsistent for club and country for the last 6 seasons". He *was* hugely inconsistent about 5 years ago, but he's one of the best attacking players in the Premier League and consistently turned it on for England over the past 2 or 3 years too. It was only 2 years ago he won Footballer of the Year.

In his mediocre season last season he still scored 20 Premier League goals and was one of the top scorers in the country and still had a much, much better season than Barnes did last season. Yet Barnes has still shown nothing like that yet even at his best.

Barnes is miles behind Sterling's level at current - absolutely everyone who isn't a Leicester fan will tell you that. It was only a couple of months ago we were all saying how bad Barnes had looked since the restart and he'd fallen behind Albrighton and Perez in the pecking order towards the end of last season. Barnes definitely has potential, we all know that, but he is also an incredibly streaky and inconsistent player who has had more stinkers for us so far than he has had great games if we're honest (which may just be a case of age, but we don't know that yet).

You're changing the goalposts to favourably suit Barnes here - Sterling has been great for England for the past couple of years and now you're making it about who is the better dribbler? It doesn't matter about a single attribute when Sterling has been doing the business. - You're deliberately trying to shoehorn an England team to play a way which suits Barnes and which puts Barnes in it when he's nowhere near the player England should be building their team around.

Barnes would have to have a crazy season this season to displace Sterling - and by that I mean a season as good as Mahrez in our title winning campaign. Maybe he's capable of it, but it's just speculation at this stage and he's absolutely miles behind Sterling right now until he has that season - and every non-Leicester fan would absolutely be scathing at us for suggesting Barnes is close at this stage of his career.

This is the kind of conversation where if Barnes played for Everton or Wolves we'd all be laughing at Everton or Wolves fans and calling Southgate useless for even suggesting Barnes start ahead of Sterling in the Euros.

You certainly argue a good point and I will concede on a few of the things I say but Sterling was hugely inconsistent, only 2 years ago at the world cup he was an absolute laughing stock for England and his figures up to then were something g heinous like 3 international goals in over 30 games.

 

I actually thought he'd had a fairly poor 2nd half of last season  after 18 months of being superb for club and country, however his stats after the restart were good so I've badly got that wrong.

 

Sterling isn't a creative player, he is a goalscoring winger which is great and most certainly an asset but it all depends what type of system a team is going for, from a supply line players like Grealish and Barnes will offer a team a lot of ammunition, more so than Sterling or Rashford but just as a team needs the correct blend of goalscorers as well as creators it also needs players to score the goals as well as create.

 

I'd have Barnes pushing Grealish as 2nd choice left wing behind Sterling, there's possibly a place for Grealish in a 8/10 role anyway so Barnes i'd have in mind as an impact player off the bench if his progression this season continues towards the Euros. 

 

He certainly needs bare minimum 10 goals and 10 assists in the PL this season but I don't think he is that far off, as I've said Sterling doesn't tend to produce many assists compared with the goals he scores so he is a different player which Southgate might need.

 

Anyway, I vaguely recall you've been fairly critical of Barnes over the last few years so we are never going to agree, it will certainly take a Mahrezesque season to convince you he is even half decent so we'll leave it here I think. 

[Sampson]

43 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You certainly argue a good point and I will concede on a few of the things I say but Sterling was hugely inconsistent, only 2 years ago at the world cup he was an absolute laughing stock for England and his figures up to then were something g heinous like 3 international goals in over 30 games.

 

I actually thought he'd had a fairly poor 2nd half of last season  after 18 months of being superb for club and country, however his stats after the restart were good so I've badly got that wrong.

 

Sterling isn't a creative player, he is a goalscoring winger which is great and most certainly an asset but it all depends what type of system a team is going for, from a supply line players like Grealish and Barnes will offer a team a lot of ammunition, more so than Sterling or Rashford but just as a team needs the correct blend of goalscorers as well as creators it also needs players to score the goals as well as create.

 

I'd have Barnes pushing Grealish as 2nd choice left wing behind Sterling, there's possibly a place for Grealish in a 8/10 role anyway so Barnes i'd have in mind as an impact player off the bench if his progression this season continues towards the Euros. 

 

He certainly needs bare minimum 10 goals and 10 assists in the PL this season but I don't think he is that far off, as I've said Sterling doesn't tend to produce many assists compared with the goals he scores so he is a different player which Southgate might need.

 

Anyway, I vaguely recall you've been fairly critical of Barnes over the last few years so we are never going to agree, it will certainly take a Mahrezesque season to convince you he is even half decent so we'll leave it here I think. 

I do think he's half decent, I just think you're looking at it through rose tinted glasses if you think he's anywhere close to being at Sterling's level yet.

 

I have been critical of Barnes when people make out that his undoubted potential means he is at that level currently or ever will reach that level.

 

I think he has all the attributes to be a great player if he fulfills his potential. However he is still nowhere near consistent enough yet and there's no saying that automatically will get that consistency yet to prove himself.

 

Again, I think you're deliberately moving the goalposts of how you think England should play to shoehorn Barnes in. Clearly, Sterling is a much better player than Barnes currently and if they can find a system to get Sterling playing well while not negating other England attacking threats like Kane or Sancho, then England should play that system - and for the past 2 years they've managed to do that well.

 

Sterling wasn't a running joke at the WC 2 years ago at all, he *was* at Euro 2016, you're right about that, but general opinion in the 2018 WC was he had a good tournament but just couldn't finish - a pretty common criticism of Barnes right now, except Sterling had just got 18 PL goals the season going into the WC and Barnes hasn't shown anything like that yet.

Edited 9 October 2020 by Sampson