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Shane

Harvey Barnes

By Shane, in Leicester City Forum

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I do think he's half decent, I just think you're looking at it through rose tinted glasses if you think he's anywhere close to being at Sterling's level yet.

 

I have been critical of Barnes when people make out that his undoubted potential means he is at that level currently or ever will reach that level.

 

I think he has all the attributes to be a great player if he fulfills his potential. However he is still nowhere near consistent enough yet and there's no saying that automatically will get that consistency yet to prove himself.

 

Again, I think you're deliberately moving the goalposts of how you think England should play to shoehorn Barnes in. Clearly, Sterling is a much better player than Barnes currently and if they can find a system to get Sterling playing well while not negating other England attacking threats like Kane or Sancho, then England should play that system - and for the past 2 years they've managed to do that well.

 

Sterling wasn't a running joke at the WC 2 years ago at all, he *was* at Euro 2016, you're right about that, but general opinion in the 2018 WC was he had a good tournament but just couldn't finish - a pretty common criticism of Barnes right now, except Sterling had just got 18 PL goals the season going into the WC and Barnes hasn't shown anything like that yet.

Sterling was horribly criticised for England at Euro 2016 and in 2018, he was better in Russia but he didn't score an international goal for over 3 years and it was difficult to defend him. He then became one of the best players in Europe for club and country IMO from Sep 2018 to June 2019 but last season I think he became less effective. England have been crap since they got to the nation finals in 2019, I genuinely don't know what Southgate's game plan is. 

 

I think Barnes will get around 12 goals and 10 assists this season and be at the Euros.

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Sampson

Sampson

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Sterling was horribly criticised for England at Euro 2016 and in 2018, he was better in Russia but he didn't score an international goal for over 3 years and it was difficult to defend him. He then became one of the best players in Europe for club and country IMO from Sep 2018 to June 2019 but last season I think he became less effective. England have been crap since they got to the nation finals in 2019, I genuinely don't know what Southgate's game plan is. 

 

I think Barnes will get around 12 goals and 10 assists this season and be at the Euros.

But you're just speculating on what Barnes will get this season. He's not had a season like that. 

 

Again, you're making out that he's already reached potential that he simply hasn't reached yet. This is the kind of shit we'd laugh at other fans for - this requires him doubling his goal tally from last season. Maybe he'll do this, if so, then great. But you're wildly speculating on that and you're using a speculation to compare him to the form of opposition player's performances from last season which is  bizarre. Even moreso when our fans start whinging about Southgate for not picking our players based on speculating about just how good a Leicester player might possibly be this season. It's ludicrous.

 

I'm sure many Man Utd fans might also say "Mason Greenwood will get 25 goals this season and go the Euros". Maybe he will, but it's irrelevant to the fact that he is currently miles behind Sterling in the England pecking order until he actually does that.

Edited by Sampson
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shailen

shailen

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

This is the point with Barnes, it's not even that he's an amazing talent, it's that he's a pretty unique wide player.

 

Was trying to think who best to compare him to with the pace and power and I guess Bale is probably the closest. Not saying he's at that level and he's still a different type of player but even if you're not sold on Harvey's ability you need to recognise the threat he carries. There's a reason we haven't looked at left sided player recently.

The Bale comparison is a good one, because he was exactly like Barnes without the physique when he first came onto the scene and then all of a sudden brought finesse into his game and became a world beater. 

 

Barnes needs to refine his game and make better decisions in the final third more often but I can't think of many a game where he's not created something or had a good chance to score. His numbers would be crazy if he gets a little bit more composure in his game. 

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Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Oldblueyes said:

He is a prime subject of the "you would be a better player in a better team" scenario. One of the England/Man U players have probably already had a word in his ear.

 

At his current level with Madders,  they won't get much of a chance at International level

 

Legit question. Do you think the FA wants this? Why? I have no fondness for the FA. But being an FA yes man means he plays players at big clubs?

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Sampson said:

But you're just speculating on what Barnes will get this season. He's not had a season like that. 

 

Again, you're making out that he's already reached potential that he simply hasn't reached yet. This is the kind of shit we'd laugh at other fans for - this requires him doubling his goal tally from last season. Maybe he'll do this, if so, then great. But you're wildly speculating on that and you're using a speculation to compare him to the form of opposition player's performances from last season which is  bizarre. Even moreso when our fans start whinging about Southgate for not picking our players based on speculating about just how good a Leicester player might possibly be this season. It's ludicrous.

 

I'm sure many Man Utd fans might also say "Mason Greenwood will get 25 goals this season and go the Euros". Maybe he will, but it's irrelevant to the fact that he is currently miles behind Sterling in the England pecking order until he actually does that.

I'm simply basing Barnes stats on his 2020 form, which even accounts for a fairly poor spell after the restart. Even though his finishing is a work in progress he's adding goals to his game at this level and he's there or thereabouts for 8-10 assists a season anyway. Call it speculation if you want but its a reasonable prediction based on what he's producing already.

 

20-25 goal contributions will get him in the England squad, there's been plenty of attacking midfielders and wingers who get in with far less but we have good options at the minute and he needs to keep improving. 

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murphy

murphy

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, adejo92 said:

 

I am not saying he is a bad player, but the amount of games he's missed sitter after sitter and we have had to rely upon someone else to get us the decisive goal. He's a good prospect but far from amazing. If he wasn't home grown he wouldn't get half this hype.

 

I am going to make more of a conservative effort to watch him closely as i really want to appreciate him as much as everyone else.

Let me put it this way, if he is on the ball in the final third, he is the player that will get me out of my seat more than any other.

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Gwyn

Gwyn

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Posted
13 hours ago, Old Fox said:

Nope just left out along with 5 others 

What a wasted trip ffs,as he could be training tactics with the team that pay his wages. They should have gave him his cap and told him he's one for the future if he fills his potential and sent him home.

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Gwyn

Gwyn

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes but I have a huge suspicion that he will not be featured in that squad either, my point was/is What can you learn and improve on with a 15 min cameo and watching the rest from an empty stand, I bet Brendans coaching sessions are way more tactical and challenging than Gareth.

If he's not going to be used send him and the other 5 home to their respective teams.

FREE THE 6

Edited by Gwyn
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StanSP

StanSP

Posted
Posted

No point sending him home when he could still be used. While it's unlikely, he could still be called upon. What if 4 or 5 players get COVID? Southgate won't want to be short even if it is for options on the bench. 

 

Unless they've done something wrong or are injured, they won't be sent back until all the international games they've been called up for have finished. 

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
On 09/10/2020 at 13:28, Ric Flair said:

Last season Barnes got 7 goals and 9 assists in all competitions. Grealish got 10 goals and 8 assists. There really wasn't a lot in it. Grealish is a superb player though who I think England should build their team around.

 

I do think Barnes has a place in England's squad long term though, as he is different to Rashford, Sterling and Grealish. Sancho plays wide right. 

 

He needs an incredible season to move up the pecking order though come next summers Euros and a smaller squad to be part of. I wouldn't rule it out though, his creativity is up there with the best we have in this country. 

 

Barnes was playing in a side that spent all season top three or four and broke the record for biggest ever Premier League win. Grealish was in a team that stayed up by a point. 

 

I can't stand Grealish, he's like a walking stereotype of everything that's wrong with modern footballers, the diving, the attitude, the image, the ridiculous shit he gets caught doing off the pitch, he's insufferable. Barnes is the complete antidote to all of that, a humble, decent kid going about learning his trade. 

 

But none of that stops the fact Grealish is, currently, a much, much better player than Barnes. Grealish has the confidence and poise to control an entire game, every week. Grealish went one on one against the Champions of England the other week and cheekily dummy chipped the ball near post by the "best goalkeeper in the world." Barnes panics and smashes every shot he takes straight at the goalkeeper. 

 

He's got a lot of work to do before he's ready for regular international football. Someone compared him to Bale on here the other day, I can sort of see that, those powerful bursting runs, but Bale was finding the bottom corner from those fairly early on. 

 

If, and it's a big if, Barnes starts turning those chances in to goals he'll be absolutely prolific. He's actually had more decent goal scoring chances this season already than Vards has had for months. If he starts putting those away he'll be unbelievable. 

 

But equally, whilst he keeps missing them it's going to become increasingly apparent every week, to all watching, including Southgate, that he's got a significant flaw. Sterling can be trusted to put those chances away, Sancho can be trusted to put those chances away, Rashford can be trusted to put those chances away. 

 

That's the bar. If Harvey wants to be one of the best wide players in the country he's got to reach it. Assists can come from all over the park, goals somewhat less so. 

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rachhere

rachhere

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Gwyn said:

What a wasted trip ffs,as he could be training tactics with the team that pay his wages. They should have gave him his cap and told him he's one for the future if he fills his potential and sent him home.

If I had been called up to the senior England squad for the first time, I definitely wouldn't see it as a wasted trip! He's still very young in his career, this is just the start for him with England, I am sure. But for now he comes back with renewed confidence knowing that he's been noticed, and renewed determination knowing he has something else to fight for. 

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HankMarvin

HankMarvin

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47 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Barnes was playing in a side that spent all season top three or four and broke the record for biggest ever Premier League win. Grealish was in a team that stayed up by a point. 

 

I can't stand Grealish, he's like a walking stereotype of everything that's wrong with modern footballers, the diving, the attitude, the image, the ridiculous shit he gets caught doing off the pitch, he's insufferable. Barnes is the complete antidote to all of that, a humble, decent kid going about learning his trade. 

 

But none of that stops the fact Grealish is, currently, a much, much better player than Barnes. Grealish has the confidence and poise to control an entire game, every week. Grealish went one on one against the Champions of England the other week and cheekily dummy chipped the ball near post by the "best goalkeeper in the world." Barnes panics and smashes every shot he takes straight at the goalkeeper. 

 

He's got a lot of work to do before he's ready for regular international football. Someone compared him to Bale on here the other day, I can sort of see that, those powerful bursting runs, but Bale was finding the bottom corner from those fairly early on. 

 

If, and it's a big if, Barnes starts turning those chances in to goals he'll be absolutely prolific. He's actually had more decent goal scoring chances this season already than Vards has had for months. If he starts putting those away he'll be unbelievable. 

 

But equally, whilst he keeps missing them it's going to become increasingly apparent every week, to all watching, including Southgate, that he's got a significant flaw. Sterling can be trusted to put those chances away, Sancho can be trusted to put those chances away, Rashford can be trusted to put those chances away. 

 

That's the bar. If Harvey wants to be one of the best wide players in the country he's got to reach it. Assists can come from all over the park, goals somewhat less so. 

Dam, you rate Adrian highly.

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Barnes was playing in a side that spent all season top three or four and broke the record for biggest ever Premier League win. Grealish was in a team that stayed up by a point. 

 

I can't stand Grealish, he's like a walking stereotype of everything that's wrong with modern footballers, the diving, the attitude, the image, the ridiculous shit he gets caught doing off the pitch, he's insufferable. Barnes is the complete antidote to all of that, a humble, decent kid going about learning his trade. 

 

But none of that stops the fact Grealish is, currently, a much, much better player than Barnes. Grealish has the confidence and poise to control an entire game, every week. Grealish went one on one against the Champions of England the other week and cheekily dummy chipped the ball near post by the "best goalkeeper in the world." Barnes panics and smashes every shot he takes straight at the goalkeeper. 

 

He's got a lot of work to do before he's ready for regular international football. Someone compared him to Bale on here the other day, I can sort of see that, those powerful bursting runs, but Bale was finding the bottom corner from those fairly early on. 

 

If, and it's a big if, Barnes starts turning those chances in to goals he'll be absolutely prolific. He's actually had more decent goal scoring chances this season already than Vards has had for months. If he starts putting those away he'll be unbelievable. 

 

But equally, whilst he keeps missing them it's going to become increasingly apparent every week, to all watching, including Southgate, that he's got a significant flaw. Sterling can be trusted to put those chances away, Sancho can be trusted to put those chances away, Rashford can be trusted to put those chances away. 

 

That's the bar. If Harvey wants to be one of the best wide players in the country he's got to reach it. Assists can come from all over the park, goals somewhat less so. 

Mason Mount is first choice for England with a worse goals and assists record than Grealish and Barnes, just goes to show that both of them will need to be unbelievable to get a proper chance, likewise Maddison. 

 

The talent pool thst England have right now is higher than its been for several years but that's not necessarily how Southgate picks his sides anyway, Barnes probably has very little chance to become a regular even though I think he's not far off some of this squad in the attacking areas. Quite scary to think there is Sterling, Rashford, Grealish, Mount, Barnes, Maddison, Foden, Greenwood, Sancho and probably a few others I've missed who are looking to play in that 2 or 3 behind Kane or Calvert-Lewin.

 

Big season ahead for Barnes, his improvement in his creativity and direct running with the ball has increased significantly. Now needs to improve his first touch (very erratic) and his finishing (something that seemed so natural to him at Championship and below). He already had incredible positioning sense in and around the opposition box, you can't teach that ability to be in scoring opportunities as many times as he gets for a winger but he has to now find that composure.

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honeybradger

honeybradger

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 09/10/2020 at 21:26, Ric Flair said:

You certainly argue a good point and I will concede on a few of the things I say but Sterling was hugely inconsistent, only 2 years ago at the world cup he was an absolute laughing stock for England and his figures up to then were something g heinous like 3 international goals in over 30 games.

 

I actually thought he'd had a fairly poor 2nd half of last season  after 18 months of being superb for club and country, however his stats after the restart were good so I've badly got that wrong.

 

Sterling isn't a creative player, he is a goalscoring winger which is great and most certainly an asset but it all depends what type of system a team is going for, from a supply line players like Grealish and Barnes will offer a team a lot of ammunition, more so than Sterling or Rashford but just as a team needs the correct blend of goalscorers as well as creators it also needs players to score the goals as well as create.

 

I'd have Barnes pushing Grealish as 2nd choice left wing behind Sterling, there's possibly a place for Grealish in a 8/10 role anyway so Barnes i'd have in mind as an impact player off the bench if his progression this season continues towards the Euros. 

 

He certainly needs bare minimum 10 goals and 10 assists in the PL this season but I don't think he is that far off, as I've said Sterling doesn't tend to produce many assists compared with the goals he scores so he is a different player which Southgate might need.

 

Anyway, I vaguely recall you've been fairly critical of Barnes over the last few years so we are never going to agree, it will certainly take a Mahrezesque season to convince you he is even half decent so we'll leave it here I think. 

Sterling is certainly a much more creative player than barnes, he has 50 assists in 230 appearances, i would be surprised if barnes ever gets those numbers. Theyre both goalscoring wingers, not good at playing wide and making crosses or playmaking like mahrez but good at making runs into the box trying to get a goal or to layoff a teammates, but sterling is just a better player in every aspect, even in the shooting department.

Edited by honeybradger
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