2020/21 - The Run In and Top 4 chances - an Ongoing Analysis

[Duncan_K]

5 minutes ago, harpendenfox said:

That’s where I’m at. If we slip out of the top four I feel it will be as a result of home defeats to Fulham and Villa, rather than an away defeat to Chelsea. But doubtless come 8pm I will be a jibberimg wreck as normal.

Absolutely, if we miss out then it’s because of home losses to Fulham, Villa, West Ham, Everton, Newcastle, Arsenal and Leeds. How mental is it that we’re even in contention with that many home losses to that lot?! 

[ARM1968]

Just now, HighPeakFox said:

Not sure why you called me that, but for what it's worth, I agree. I'm on record saying that I think that the entire club wants CL. I just happen not to be so hyped up (yet), and I can only assume that it's because we've just won the FA Cup  

HighPeak, LoftySummit?  I took you for one of the intelligent folk 🤪. No offence meant, quite the opposite. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, ARM1968 said:

HighPeak, LoftySummit?  I took you for one of the intelligent folk 🤪. No offence meant, quite the opposite. 

I'm so thick at times, especially at 8am-ish - I thought it was down the 'High Horse' lines, should have known better for a man of your wit. Much obliged.

[Duncan_K]

Also don’t get me wrong, I’m massively massively up for tonight’s game, I just see it as an opportunity to seal the deal not a threat to our continued improvement. 

[ARM1968]

7 minutes ago, Duncan_K said:

It simply can’t be the defining moment. Because lose and it’s not all over, it’s just less likely. The defining moment would come against Spurs, if Liverpool manage to win both their games. 
 

And you are wrong, 4th or 5th this year is not some defining moment in the history of the club, it’s a nice to have, a cherry on the top of the cake, winning the FA cup and completing the set was the defining moment. I’ve read the argument that Youri stays with champions league. Why? Kante didn’t. Mahrez didn’t want to. If Youri puts another masterclass on and has a good euros then someone might come in for him. Equally due to Covid and the availability of Haaland and Kane it might be that whatever happens no one has the cash to buy any of our players. This is real life not Football manager. 

Quite. As such, being real life, CL is vital to us now. Europa league is seen by players as a chore and a long path to where, the cup?  Nope, to the CL. 
 

Those running the club know how vital CL is to our future - it’s not fantasy football it is about the financial ability to hold your own. CL qualification helps with that. It’s just the reality of things. 
 

Anyway, you’re wrong 

[Duncan_K]

4 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Quite. As such, being real life, CL is vital to us now. Europa league is seen by players as a chore and a long path to where, the cup?  Nope, to the CL. 
 

Those running the club know how vital CL is to our future - it’s not fantasy football it is about the financial ability to hold your own. CL qualification helps with that. It’s just the reality of things. 
 

Anyway, you’re wrong 

Making Cl football vital to the model is Ridsdale style thinking. If those running the club were thinking that then we are set up for disaster. They aren’t and we aren’t. 
 

Given the position we got ourselves in it became vital to get either the cup win or the top 4 so as not to get that Spursy bottling gene into our make up. We’ve done that now! If we’d lost the cup final then I’d have been crapping myself about today, as it is I’m excited, a huge opportunity for another Champions League adventure. 

[Danny Clender]

Sums it up neatly for me.

Edited 18 May 2021 by Danny Clender

[Bazly]

If we cannot beat either Chelski or Spursy then we shouldn't be upset if the top 4 eludes us. Even if the end result is 5th who at the start of the season wouldn't have been ecstatic with 17th and the FA cup? Its a topping season whatever happens over the next few days. 

[Deeg67]

2 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Then clearly you have no concept of the magnitude of tonight’s game. This isn’t just a defining moment, it could really be our future defining moment - it is THAT serious. 
 

In light of that I am significantly more nervous. 

Ditto here.  Not even close - leagues ahead in terms of importance.

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Then clearly you have no concept of the magnitude of tonight’s game. This isn’t just a defining moment, it could really be our future defining moment - it is THAT serious. 
 

In light of that I am significantly more nervous. 

Qualifying for the champion League is a short term change in a clubs income unless you qualify for it yearly.

 

Fans have been brainwashed into thinking have that extra income is the most important thing. What have Spurs achieved off the back of 5 seasons of Champion league football and income, nothing? What the point of having extra income if you do nothing with it. 

 

Do you think Vardy, Kasper, Fuchs, Morgan, Albrighton would swap their FA Cup medals for Spurs 5 years in the CL?

 

Not that I don't want us to win, but I don't think it as defining as you feel. The start of the best period in our history came from the back of losing to Watford in the POs.

 

 

 

 

[ARM1968]

10 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Qualifying for the champion League is a short term change in a clubs income unless you qualify for it yearly.

 

Fans have been brainwashed into thinking have that extra income is the most important thing. What have Spurs achieved off the back of 5 seasons of Champion league football and income, nothing? What the point of having extra income if you do nothing with it. 

 

Do you think Vardy, Kasper, Fuchs, Morgan, Albrighton would swap their FA Cup medals for Spurs 5 years in the CL?

 

Not that I don't want us to win, but I don't think it as defining as you feel. The start of the best period in our history came from the back of losing to Watford in the POs.

 

 

 

 

 Not as defining for some clubs I agree, badly run, egotistical big 6 clubs. We are not that and I feel that IF we are to become a fixture in the top end of the EPL then we need this to push on. Do you really think we would have wasted the Money like Spurs?  I don’t, I have more faith in our management and recruitment teams. 
 

Still, we all have our opinions. I just hope failure to achieve CL isn't as catastrophic as I fear. 

[HighPeakFox]

25 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Qualifying for the champion League is a short term change in a clubs income unless you qualify for it yearly.

 

Fans have been brainwashed into thinking have that extra income is the most important thing. What have Spurs achieved off the back of 5 seasons of Champion league football and income, nothing? What the point of having extra income if you do nothing with it. 

 

Do you think Vardy, Kasper, Fuchs, Morgan, Albrighton would swap their FA Cup medals for Spurs 5 years in the CL?

 

Not that I don't want us to win, but I don't think it as defining as you feel. The start of the best period in our history came from the back of losing to Watford in the POs.

I have to disagree with the bolded part, it's a bit insulting and not what most pro-Top 4 people are thinking (I think). It's about what becomes possible, and I stated my position on it very clearly yesterday - the extra money just facilitates the player purchases/retention, the qualification attracts those players in the first place.

[LVFox]

Possibly still the after glow of Saturday, but I'm confident that we will challenge for top 4 again next season, far more than I was last season. If Kane goes to Man Utd that confidence probably drops a little.

 

Still think we will do the job this season. 

[fox in the sox]

Kane probably last game for Spurs v Leicester. Hodgson last game at Liverpool. Not sure if any of this will make a difference to the race for the top 4

Edited 18 May 2021 by fox in the sox

[ARM1968]

4 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

Kane probably last game for Spurs v Leicester. Hodgson last game at Liverpool. Not sure if any of this wil make a difference to the race for the top 4

Kane won’t want to crock himself for his new club. I imagine a fairly sedentary performance.
 

watch the cvnt rocket in a hat-rick now.  

[Gerard]

4 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I take both points just made... tonight IS huge but I personally feel more serene about this. Maybe it's the confidence borne of supporting a team that has just won something of enormous importance.

 

It's the knowledge that in for the worst happens in the last two games and we finish 5th it's still been a highly productive season.

 

My biggest fear was falling just short in the FA Cup and top four, before Saturday I would have snapped your arm off for either one of the two. We've achieved that now and although I'm desperate for us to get CL I'm more at ease if we don't quite get over the line. That doesn't mean I won't be disappointed or the players shouldn't give everything but the fear of failing isn't there.

[OrielCaziado]

I’ve really mellowed on the champions league now. For weeks I’ve been studiously assessing our chances and dreading just missing out. Winning the Cup certainly helped for me but I’ve also over the last two seasons seen how difficult breaking into the top four is. Seeing the squads the big clubs have and the luck they seem to get with big decisions, which maybe paranoia on my part, I’ve come to realise we are punching miles above our weight and to now enjoy it and not get stressed. This era has brought us two massive trophies and at least we can look back in years to come at them. Tottenham for example have done brilliant for many seasons now but have nothing to show for it. That could easily have been us. 
 

 

[foxes_rule1978]

29 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Kane won’t want to crock himself for his new club. I imagine a fairly sedentary performance.
 

watch the cvnt rocket in a hat-rick now.  

I can see they effecting the other players, kane is leaving I’m sure they will be thinking the same. Will be demoralising for them 

[murphy]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Qualifying for the champion League is a short term change in a clubs income unless you qualify for it yearly.

 

Fans have been brainwashed into thinking have that extra income is the most important thing. What have Spurs achieved off the back of 5 seasons of Champion league football and income, nothing? What the point of having extra income if you do nothing with it. 

 

Do you think Vardy, Kasper, Fuchs, Morgan, Albrighton would swap their FA Cup medals for Spurs 5 years in the CL?

 

Not that I don't want us to win, but I don't think it as defining as you feel. The start of the best period in our history came from the back of losing to Watford in the POs.

 

 

 

 

I think that the benefits of CL qualification are quite obvious but I also think that there are people on this forum labouring under the misapprehension that it is possible for us to become a CL regular and for the club to grow to an extent that we can stand on equal terms with the big six and become a giant ourselves.  I read comments along those lines all the time and while I think that it's great to dream, sometimes we should take a reality check so that expectations don't get out of hand.  It's not possible.

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I have to disagree with the bolded part, it's a bit insulting and not what most pro-Top 4 people are thinking (I think). It's about what becomes possible, and I stated my position on it very clearly yesterday - the extra money just facilitates the player purchases/retention, the qualification attracts those players in the first place.

I'm not intended to be insulting @HighPeakFox. I'm pro top 4 as anyone, but the consensus seems to be you can only improve and grow with the additional CL money and finishing fifth, and a FA Cup isn't progression. If we go back through this thread, how many people have stated they want CL because it's a fantastic competition to play in, the narrative has often been about money.

 

For a club that has only achieved European football once before 2019-20 via league position, achieving it back to back via the league, whether it's CL or EL, is massive progression.  

 

I just disagree that the only way to grow is to get top 4. You can spend a lot of money as equally bad or good as a small amount. We sent a lot of CL money in the summer of 2016 badly.

 

More money and CL league football doesn't always lead to better player recruitment. You only have to look at some of Man U, Spurs and Arsenal purchases over the last 5-6 years.

 

I think it having the right culture and ethos is probably as important, and it the one of thing you could argue we have got right.

Edited 18 May 2021 by coolhandfox

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

 Not as defining for some clubs I agree, badly run, egotistical big 6 clubs. We are not that and I feel that IF we are to become a fixture in the top end of the EPL then we need this to push on. Do you really think we would have wasted the Money like Spurs?  I don’t, I have more faith in our management and recruitment teams. 
 

Still, we all have our opinions. I just hope failure to achieve CL isn't as catastrophic as I fear. 

But you fear.....everyweek..

[ARM1968]

Just now, fuchsntf said:

But you fear.....everyweek..

I even fear that one day I will understand your posts without large amounts of effort 🤣

 

But to be fair it’s in my nature. I’ve been round this circle too many times already and it rubs off on you. 

[deanolegend1989]

8 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I'm not intended to be insulting @HighPeakFox. I'm pro top 4 as anyone, but the consensus seems to be you can only improve and grow with the additional CL money and finishing fifth, and a FA Cup isn't progression. If we go back through this thread, how many people have stated they want CL because it's a fantastic competition to play in, the narrative has often been about money.

 

For a club that has only achieved European football once before 2019-20 via league position, achieving it back to back via the league, whether it's CL or EL, is massive progression.  

 

I just disagree that the only way to grow is to get top 4. You can spend a lot of money as equally bad or good as a small amount. We sent a lot of CL money in the summer of 2016 badly.

 

More money and CL league football doesn't always lead to better player recruitment. You only have to look at some of Man U, Spurs and Arsenal purchases over the last 5-6 years.

 

I think it having the right culture and ethos is probably as important, and it the one of thing you could argue we have got right.

The difference to when we achieved it last time was that everyone could see it wasn’t sustainable and it was a freak and a dream season. Kante already had in his contract to be able to leave as well and we had an aging squad who completed a fairytale.

Despite all this we got to the QF and gave Athletico a huge run for their money and they needed to dive to get the advantage I’m the first leg.

This time it appears the general consensus is that we are an upwardly mobile club and can sustain our push for top 4.

It is crucial to achieve top 4, not because I love the CL but because I love watching great players play for us and can look forward to us really battling the top 6 year on year. I believe that it is harder to keep our best players, playing in the EL.

 

Lets put it this way, if someone told me now - ‘we will drop into EL BUT we don’t lose a single squad member by the end of the summer transfer window’ then I wouldn’t care and be happy if that happened, literally. I think(and I think others share this worry) that should we fail to make CL, we could see some key departures that set us back for years.

I know we have unbelievable scouting but its near impossible to replace a few of our players(Youri and Wilf especially imo). That’s the main worry for me.

Were 1 performance away from the dream season! I get the point ‘we’ve won the FA Cup, it’ll be easier to take if we drop out’ I agree to an extent, I feared failing in both, that would of felt like an absolute waste. We have achieved 1 so it’s great but this is hugely important and it will be a huge disappointment if we drop out again.

It will always be a good season after Saturday but let’s make it a great season rather than a good one with a black cloud taking the shine off it! Come on boys!!!

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, deanolegend1989 said:

I think(and I think others share this worry) that should we fail to make CL, we could see some key departures that set us back for years.

which players do you think will leave this summer if we finish 5th? 

 

I actually don't think we will lose anyone this summer and it will be next summer where we could see Tielemans and maybe one or two others push for a move. 

[Foxaholic ME]

6 hours ago, Duncan_K said:

Absolutely, if we miss out then it’s because of home losses to Fulham, Villa, West Ham, Everton, Newcastle, Arsenal and Leeds. How mental is it that we’re even in contention with that many home losses to that lot?! 

Agreed with our amazing away record should be all over only 2 defeats all season including FA and europa although reserves lost in the league cup