The Super League

[Pliskin]

9 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

I realise the fans of these clubs are in no way in favour of this move. But the fans of Sheffield Wednesday and Wigan weren't in favour of their owners putting them in financial trouble, and they have been given large points deductions that have essentially relegated them. This crime, from a sporting point of view, is much worse. Therefore there is a very good argument to relegate all 6 clubs.

 

Some people in the media have called for calm and compromise. This is a poor attitude. Whether these owners are dead set on this idea or they are just using it to blackmail UEFA, the authorities cannot tolerate that sort of bullying behaviour. Weakness from football would be detrimental to our stance and would disillusion fans even more.

We talk about appeasement – we’ve been appeasing these rich psychopaths for years, making change after change to make it profitable for them. I say do the opposite, show them we don’t need a single penny from them to enjoy football. Let’s not forget how LCFC was formed – by a few mates in a shed.

 

One of the most disappointing things so far has been the response of the managers. I know that they have been put in a difficult positon, but neither Klopp nor Tuchel have shown the passionate disdain for this idea that is required. Klopp looked like he was trying to avoid being controversial, and Tuchel didn't even offer an opinion. In particular, Tuchel has shown himself to be a coward. A man needs to be willing to put some things above their own personal success and this is one of those occassions. It's especially disappointing when both of those managers carry a lot of stock among their supporters. From a career perspective, they don't really need either club to build them a reputation - they already have one.

 

Footballers will be the pivotal people now. At the moment these clubs have no credit with the footballing world, no fans and strong opposition from governments. If they have no players, they have no product to sell and no chance.

 

The thing to note here is who the winners are. The answer is the Germans. German football holds all the cards because their fans are the majority shareholders. Achieving this now needs to be the priority for English clubs. Forget about how good our current team is. I don't care. I want a system in place to make sure we as fans have control over the destiny of our local sports team. If 11 season ticket holders put the blue and white shirt on and play at Vicky Park, so be it. Thousands of people will still go and watch as long as it’s considered Leicester City by the people of Leicester.

 

This has been coming for a long while. The Premier League and Sky have a lot to answer for – its them pumping in all the money in that has created a gulf, created a reliance on billionaire owners and have slowly made these owners more powerful and the fans more powerless. Too many times people have excused change because they are either deluded into thinking that money is good for the sport or that they see it as an inevitability that they need to be ok with. I remember a story about a German club a few years ago whose ticket prices went up by a 5er. They boycotted immediately until the decision was reversed.

 

And yet, where have the positive changes been? The authorities have had years to improve officiating. Years to introduce retrospective six game bans for players diving as a deterrent, rather than being apologists for this cheating. Years to control ticket prices for the good of the fans. Years to control the sort of people that can own football clubs. Years to bring in rules to stop said owners changing the teams colours, running up debts against the club, treating the fans like diseased cattle, and moving their team to a different city.

 

We’ve let them tear down our grounds, only to build soulless, generic bowls where you need a taxi to the pitch. We’ve let them bring in players who have been convicted of serious crimes against women. We’ve let them agree to antisocial kick off times like Sunday lunchtimes and Monday nights.

 

Football fans have sold everything out for success and now even that success is worthless because the very league and cup systems are being thrown out. We’re left with the only things we ever needed anyway – our memories. That is all the history and honours really are, a group of fans talking about the wonderful and painful memories of going to Wembley, winning trophies, beating local rivals, last minute goals and ‘scenes, bodies everywhere!’

 

The upside is that hopefully it will be enough of a wake-up call for English football fans, who are often too passive and accepting, to realise they need to take control of their clubs to ensure their future and, more importantly, ensure the sport as a whole regains both its integrity and the excitement it once had a shred of.

 

 

 

Well said Kitch. Time to take the game back. We have voices, let’s ****ing use them.

[Hoopla10]

23 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You're kidding yourself if you think the league will improve once these teams have left/been banned. 

It depends what you mean by improve. If it resets out core principles, a refocus on the English league, pulls better fan representation into the clubs THAT imo is improving. It'll be a painful transition no question and our owners might not be up for it (I think they will) but by that same logic it will see parasites only interested in using clubs as assets (eg Mike Ashley) sell up and be purged. There wont be as much money but it'll still have value and be competitive.   

[ARM1968]

14 minutes ago, enmac said:

Socialism is not the same as every other political persuasion. Don't cheapen it with the one we've got right now. Staunch neoliberalism. Makes me laugh that the government are saying they're against this esl business. The only thing they're concerned about is that they haven't got a piece of the pie. 

Oh it really is. But now isn’t the time for that debate. 
 

I note a little bit of a conflicted tone in most of the Big Sux forums. Most dead against but there are some in there not so opposed. 

[LanguedocFox]

32 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

If they all join this and get banned from the Premier League, imagine being a Spurs fan watching Leicester, Wolves, West Ham, Everton and Villa sharing Premier League titles while Spurs finish 15th out of 20 season after season in the 'Super League', constantly the butt of all the 'banter club' memes on Twitter and Instagram. I wouldn't even wish it on Forest fans. It would be soul destroying.

Who would Spurs finish above FFS? This is a club playing two-star football in a five-star stadium and predictably winning fvck all season after season. A super league ain’t gonna change that - ever.

[ALC Fox]

1 minute ago, LanguedocFox said:

Who would Spurs finish above FFS? This is a club playing two-star football in a five-star stadium and predictably winning fvck all season after season. A super league ain’t gonna change that - ever.

I was thinking because of the guaranteed money possibly the 5 non-founding clubs who get allowed in who will drop in and out season after season but even then maybe not.

[Strokes]

51 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Our club made a 67 million loss last year, that's a debt we have to service, plus all the debts we'll accrue this season. All this on a much reduced TV income. Atm we don't need to sell players and can hold out for top dollar, that won't last. 

 

Its not certain the owners would want to stay once the money and prestige has left the league. 

 

You're kidding yourself if you think the league will improve once these teams have left/been banned. 

These are only prestige clubs because they’ve completed well in the competitions that they now show complete disdain for.

The fans, the leagues, the opposition, they have helped make them what they are. 
Manchester United’s recent history involves title battles with Blackburn and Newcastle. Champions league finals against Bayern Munich. Clubs they now turn their back on are part of their story and history. We will all be better off without them if this is the direction they want to go.

The TV deals for the Premier league are still in place and clubs will have to cut back to prepare but supporters can still make this work if we watch in numbers and support their expulsion.

 

[StanSP]

56 minutes ago, murphy said:

Good for James Milner, but let's be honest, he doesn't have a lot to lose.  He's already 63 and at the twilight of the twilight of his career.

 

Would he speak out if he was 23?

I think he would. 

And anyway, with being older and perhaps looking for one last big paycheck, who would blame him if he did seek such an opportunity? But he didn't, he spoke out against it and stayed honest. I don't get why you need to be such a pessimist about his comments when it's pretty much what everyone has been craving for all day - someone, a player, that is part of the 12 clubs to speak out because the majority of the rest of them have been quieter than Anne Frank in an attic. 

[ARTY_FOX]

Hopefully Milner speaking out triggers other players to. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

[Dan LCFC]

20 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Imagine the atmosphere there if fans had been allowed in tonight. Would have been absolutely vitriolic.

This sadly is partly why it happened now. They probably cannot believe their luck. Both an excuse to reshuffle due to covid which they can pin the whole thing on, and the grounds empty so no proper fightback can take place during games. A perfect storm.

[Hack]

10 hours ago, whitlock said:

Didn't they try to do this in La Liga not long ago but player power stopped it?

 

A lot of these changes can quickly fall flat on its arse with players taking control, which i know is easier said and done. But if Messi, Haaland, De Bryune etc. all state they will not play in this Super League other big names will follow soon.

 

Football is nothing without players (and fans) and there will be players that will play in it due to £££, but the Super League is meant to all be about big name players, if they refuse to play then what will happen.

 

A Few players have started to come out, fingers crossed a player from the confirmed teams for the ESL comes out and disregards it, could open the gates for the rest.

Let's see that happen when Uefa and Fifa make it clear what their actions will be. It has to include removing all teams from all Uefa competitions and the banning of all individuals who have signed on to the super league from participating in any uefa competitions for at least a period of 5 years not just internationals but they can't come back to normal leagues if fired from a esl team. If you leave to become a rebel, then that is your career. As a rebel. Not welcome back.  If players especially the younger ones then it has a much bigger impact.  If you are Messi or Ronaldo who are now well into your 30s the future is not that important. If you are a Haaland or Mbeppe then you are concerned. It is the younger stars that have to come out against this. 

Also waiting to see what the top coaches have to say.  They will only be able to work for 12 to 15 teams.  Not much security in that. 

[StanSP]

3 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

Wtf is he going on about? Did he listen to what Neville was saying? 

 

Klopp really has played the victim here hasn't he? He's totally missed the point of anything Neville has said and latched on to being offended because Neville dared to mention you'll never walk alone. 

 

Shown himself up here. I think you can tell he's irritated about it all, and perhaps not just Neville. There's a frustration in his voice. 

[Vlad the Fox]

Agree with all the points against this I’ve read on here tonight but one thing I’ve not seen mentioned when people suggest that these teams would use the premier league to play their B teams, this may not necessarily be true. It’ll become evident fairly early on, as in the premier league, the teams most likely to qualify in the top positions and those that won’t. What’s to stop a team like spurs or arsenal languishing in the esl so then switching their focus and efforts on to the premier league and with the vast wealth the esl gives them absolutely dominating the premier league. Their seasons won’t be dead they’ll just switch focus if they’re performing badly in one league or the other.
 

This will absolutely kill competition in all formats and every pressure needs to be applied to stop it, if players start coming out saying they won’t play in it, if managers say they won’t manage in it, and these are football people so despite the vast wealth on the table for them there will be plenty against it then there is no product to sell to the people with little interest in the history  or community of football. 

[Hack]

10 hours ago, peach0000 said:

Basically a few teams that don't qualify on merit will be allowed in as wild cards based on their Uefa coefficient 

No team other than the permanent ones we'll ever want to be invited year on year with the threat of being kicked out of all other comps. 

[Dan LCFC]

The problem now is the cat is out of the bag. What actually is the logical solution here?

 

The most likely scenario, in my eyes, is that the whole thing doesn't start, the fact the government are talking about it makes me think so - I don't think any of the clubs would've bargained for that happening and I think they would never have bothered if they knew that was going to happen. We then go back to how it was before, but the Swiss model comes into the Champions League, which is still shit by the way - less shit than this, but still shit regardless.

 

But what happens from there is interesting, because the core support of those six clubs now have a relationship with their clubs totally tainted. Whether the whole thing gets brushed under the carpet, I'm unsure, but I really do feel like the unspoken of losers in this are the core support of those six clubs that are put in a very tough position. I'm glad it hasn't happened to us. I have no idea what I'd do. I'd seriously struggle to justify handing money over in future after something like this - I'd unquestionably want the owners out, and I see that being a regular thing for all six clubs.

 

As shit and depressing as it is, I almost feel a bit numb to it. The last year has been the single worst I've ever had when it comes to football and it really has hammered home that the majority of the whole thing is about the social side of it. I do appreciate what a side we have at the minute, and they've done this city proud this season, but you know what, I think I've realised that beyond any reasonable doubt this season there is so much more to football than just having a good team. I will always want us to strive to have one, but when you look at what the cost of it is, what it's allowed into the game, it's a bit depressing. Basically, I think if those six clubs did clear off to the 'super' league and in England we were left with the league system of before, the 92, with everyone shifting up 6 places - less crap kick off times, no VAR etc... then the whole thing could end up a lot more enjoyable as a matchgoing fan anyway. Even if our players leaving to the 'super' league was an inevitability, I think it would turn out more enjoyable.

 

Then maybe when their 'super' league has crumbled, realising another monopoly within it has been created, when Arsenal realise being actual regular also-rans isn't doing them any good, they'll realise what they left behind.

[Hack]

10 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

ESL gaining almost universal disapproval and derision. Who would have thought trying to destroy football would unify us all more than almost anything else. 
 

The people behind this are actual morons with all the money and no common sense. 
 

I expect Klopp to walk today or tomorrow. I think Pep will stay. OGS will likely stay. But this has got to be a gut punch to managers and players alike. 

These mangers have a very small pool of places to work if any go with the esl. They will be banned from being employed by any team in official leagues. 

[Ian Nacho]

Is anyone else sick to death of this already?

Edited 19 April 2021 by Ian Nacho

[ARM1968]

1 minute ago, Ian Nacho said:

Is anyone else sick to death of this already?

Nope. Attention span gnat. Some things we should all be able to focus on for more than 30 mins or 24hrs. This is quite serious and deserves our impotent outpourings of anger, irritation and despair. 

[Riyad_Suarez]

Can't wait for the top six (Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Barca, Real and Juve) to decide that actually they're the big boys of the ESL in 15 years, and decide that they need to rule the roost and take control of the league. 

 

Liverpool's and Uniteds owners are a total disgrace - they've tried a power grab of the premier league when providing a bail out for the EFL, which failed and now it's this.

 

What's wrong with a bit of competition?

 

They've already got a route in in the CL without finishing top 4 now, what fvcking more can they possibly want? 

[kingfox]

One comment Carragher said, that I’ve only just seen, was absolutely spot on.

 

“Fans around the World are starting to turn off from football, VAR is a big problem with that, this on top of that, will turn away a generation of supporters, who grew up loving football and it’s just gonna become boring”.

 

That’s exactly how it feels right now, Pandemic aside, the past year has sucked the life out of football, to the point where I for one, have little motivation to watch.

 

Many will feel differently to the current state of football, but there’s a reason I don’t post much on here anymore(Some of you will be pleased with that ) that’s because football is starting to suck.

[Kitchandro]

I'd like to add another thing as well - it's harder to claim that football can't function and is nothing without the fans, or that the authorities care about the fans - when they've allowed an entire football season to go ahead without fans. It should never have been allowed to happen.

Edited 19 April 2021 by Kitchandro

[HybridFox]

Do Tampa fans like the Glazers in America? Curious to know

Edited 19 April 2021 by TK95

[KansasFox]

11 minutes ago, Vlad the Fox said:

Agree with all the points against this I’ve read on here tonight but one thing I’ve not seen mentioned when people suggest that these teams would use the premier league to play their B teams, this may not necessarily be true. It’ll become evident fairly early on, as in the premier league, the teams most likely to qualify in the top positions and those that won’t. What’s to stop a team like spurs or arsenal languishing in the esl so then switching their focus and efforts on to the premier league and with the vast wealth the esl gives them absolutely dominating the premier league. Their seasons won’t be dead they’ll just switch focus if they’re performing badly in one league or the other.
 

This will absolutely kill competition in all formats and every pressure needs to be applied to stop it, if players start coming out saying they won’t play in it, if managers say they won’t manage in it, and these are football people so despite the vast wealth on the table for them there will be plenty against it then there is no product to sell to the people with little interest in the history  or community of football. 

I think they will have the wealth to basically have two teams and field them in each competition.  Currently they are richer enough to buy the best team of players, with these plans they will have enough to buy two squads worth of the best players.  Best of the world will play in the super league and then the best of the rest will play for them in the premier league.  All at wages higher than anyone else can pay. 

[StanSP]

'we are big club. We have money. All of it. You don't. Give us your players.' is pretty much what he's saying. 

 

 

[Kitchandro]

9 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

The problem now is the cat is out of the bag. What actually is the logical solution here?

 

The most likely scenario, in my eyes, is that the whole thing doesn't start, the fact the government are talking about it makes me think so - I don't think any of the clubs would've bargained for that happening and I think they would never have bothered if they knew that was going to happen. We then go back to how it was before, but the Swiss model comes into the Champions League, which is still shit by the way - less shit than this, but still shit regardless.

 

But what happens from there is interesting, because the core support of those six clubs now have a relationship with their clubs totally tainted. Whether the whole thing gets brushed under the carpet, I'm unsure, but I really do feel like the unspoken of losers in this are the core support of those six clubs that are put in a very tough position. I'm glad it hasn't happened to us. I have no idea what I'd do. I'd seriously struggle to justify handing money over in future after something like this - I'd unquestionably want the owners out, and I see that being a regular thing for all six clubs.

 

As shit and depressing as it is, I almost feel a bit numb to it. The last year has been the single worst I've ever had when it comes to football and it really has hammered home that the majority of the whole thing is about the social side of it. I do appreciate what a side we have at the minute, and they've done this city proud this season, but you know what, I think I've realised that beyond any reasonable doubt this season there is so much more to football than just having a good team. I will always want us to strive to have one, but when you look at what the cost of it is, what it's allowed into the game, it's a bit depressing. Basically, I think if those six clubs did clear off to the 'super' league and in England we were left with the league system of before, the 92, with everyone shifting up 6 places - less crap kick off times, no VAR etc... then the whole thing could end up a lot more enjoyable as a matchgoing fan anyway. Even if our players leaving to the 'super' league was an inevitability, I think it would turn out more enjoyable.

 

Then maybe when their 'super' league has crumbled, realising another monopoly within it has been created, when Arsenal realise being actual regular also-rans isn't doing them any good, they'll realise what they left behind.

I echo this.

 

On the social side - I think the saddest thing of all is that we've had trips to Prague, Wembley, a great cup run and some memorable victories etc and none of us have got to experience it as a fanbase. I was always against the idea of having a campaign without fans because of that possibility. We have been robbed of this season and that is unforgivable in itself.