England V Scotland Match Thread

[Duquesne Whistle]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

In all seriousness, he did exactly what I said he would when he came on. Held on to the ball for far too long and slowed down possession. Another time, before the sub incident, he went on another slow, ponderous dribble through a few Scotland players and then just passed it to nobody just outside the top corner of the box because yet again his head was down. 

 

The most he created was, exactly as predicted, winning a few free kicks by drawing fouls. 

 

He's got the raw materials to be a world class footballer. He's a huge, strong lad with great touch, pretty good imagination and actually fairly good vision the times he does get his head up. 

 

He really could be the things the press hype him up to be but he's desperately in need of quality coaching. A couple of seasons working with someone like Pep and he probably would be one of your best players. 

 

But Aston Villa's Jack Grealish? Eh, he's going to give you a few high profile, eye catching moments of quality but 95% frustration and that's something you've got far too much of already. 

 

Yet you've got Sancho and Bellingham on the bench and don't use them when they've been part of a high tempo, free scoring Dortmund side all season. 

 

Look, I get it, I'm Welsh, I banter about England hurhurhur. But that's not what this is, it's just genuine bafflement at: A. the fact you've got one of the most talented young generations of footballers I've seen in my lifetime yet a manager with no idea how the fvck to use them and B. the cult of Jack Grealish. 

 

That's pretty annoying. I think I agree with almost everything you've said there 

[Legend_in_blue]

Just listened to some of his post match comments.  We played too frantically apparently.  

 

There is no response to that.  Just 

 

He's clueless.

[Thefox81]

2 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Just listened to some of his post match comments.  We played too frantically apparently.  

 

There is no response to that.  Just 

 

He's clueless.

I heard that this morning as i turned off at the full time whistle. I almost spat my tea out. Frantic. Seriously that was so pedestrian last night it was frightening. Did he watch the same game cos id like to know where this frantic play was.

 

Absolute clown.

[Corky]

6 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Just listened to some of his post match comments.  We played too frantically apparently.  

 

There is no response to that.  Just 

 

He's clueless.

England actually played with more energy when it was boiling hot at 2pm, not pissing down at 8pm.

[Unabomber]

We just have no plan at all on the pitch. Pretty much all other teams so far have had a game plan and you can see what they are trying to do. Our guys have just been thrown together on the pitch. It is a shambles. Why do we need to play 2 DMS? Also it’s a shame Ings is injured as he would offer us a threat up front.

[Father Ted]

Southgate is a muppet.  Only known for taking a good Middlesbrough side down and for missing a big penalty at Euro 96. 

 

How he is still our manager I do not know. All blame lies on him. 

 

Sack him and get Nigel Pearson and Craig Shakespeare in.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

58 minutes ago, Langston said:

 

I'm not even sure Kane is injured any more, it's possible he just doesn't suit whatever it is Southgate is trying to do – he's not the only one.

I think that’s more likely the answer - the three attacking players around him do a little too much by themselves, he lacks a clear pivot, a teammate to regularly engage with in order to make his runs off, hence the issue of hun dropping deep to collect the ball.

 

It’s a tricky one because the squad has an abundance of young, attacking options, but you can get in a situation where if you chuck then all on the pitch they counteract each other. 
 

The biggest issue for me is our pattern of play. There was no obvious plan to attack a certain area of Scotland’s defence, no clear intention to create overloads, which you need to do when you’re going to have the majority of the ball.

 

This is probably why our tempo was so lacking as well - players where having to think the pass and movements, rather than have situations engrained into them so it works on autopilot.

 

I will give Southgate some slack - this is not an easy squad to manage, especially when you have the press beckoning certain players to be included that in truth - will only prove to be a like for like swap. 

There’s a lot of good technical players - but that alone doesn’t make a good side, you also need players like your Albrighton’s that may not be the most exciting to watch but provide a defined function in a side.

 

Personally, I think Chilwell is a much better choice for the left back slot - he’s much better going forward than Shaw, who looks ponderous. 
 

I’d be tempted on playing Foden on the left to link up with him on that side, then have Mount and Rice in the middle if midfield.

 

Then comes the most important bit - you’re number 10 - and I’d play this as a traditional 10, up too with Harry Kane because I think that’s how you get a tune out of him - and that would be where Grelish would play for me. 
 

Finally, right side, I’d suggest Sancho, play him as a traditional winger. One of Kane’s strengths is his arial dominance, so to not have quality crosses coming in from both sides seems stupid.

 

Partner him with James, a solid a choice at right back, who can protect that flank and allow Sancho the freedom to go, I feel the balance works.

 

Now, those of you that have read to this point have probably noted something…

 

This is a 4-4-2 formation! 
 

That’ll never work! 
 

But for me, it’s fluid enough in it’s parts to be more dynamic going forward and solid in defence and most importantly provides key player link ups across the pitch that can work.

 

So hopefully, Gareth is trawling Foxestalk for ideas this morning and has written this down in his little notebook.
 

 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

3 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

Southgate is a muppet.  Only known for taking a good Middlesbrough side down and for missing a big penalty at Euro 96. 

 

How he is still our manager I do not know. All blame lies on him. 

 

Sack him and get Nigel Pearson and Craig Shakespeare in.

I’m starting to think there’s a hint of Claude Puel about him.

 

Puel helped transition us to what we are today with bringing through young players and signing other ones and instilling a possession based game. But he wasn’t the guy take us any further. Is that Southgate?
 

He seems to be wedded to playing one way - fine. But dare we ever not play 2 holding midfielders? It just lends itself to caution and passing it sideways. The system relies on needing attacking full backs, and last night he brought plodders in and they didn’t seem to have any license to get forward at all. In attacking areas our players either look leggy, poor or have had their creative spark coached out of them.

 

I thought Southgate was the man to take us forward after a successful World Cup in 2018. Now I’m not so sure… but who is there? We seem to have reverted back to wanting to appoint English managers. Who is the next in line? Just think about that - and any answer is pretty depressing.

[coolhandfox]

The PE teacher has a plan.

 

50 laps of the school field to get the lads up for the last group game. 

 

Show you how far the international game has faultered when you have SG in charge of England, De Boer (Holland), Martinez (Belgium) all poor club managers. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Utterly dreadful, Southgate is a prize clown and FA puppet. Probably a result for all in their eyes! 

What's worrying is all the players seem to think it's a good result.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

 

Now, those of you that have read to this point have probably noted something…

 

This is a 4-4-2 formation! 
 

That’ll never work! 

 

 

You sound like Mike Basset!

 

 

[Raj]

Expectations.

The sooner England fans realise they are on par with teams like Denmark, Sweden etc and NOT the likes of France, Italy,Spain and Belgium the better for everyone.

Realistically never going to win another tournament(55 years and counting).

They can even make a striker like Harry Kane look League one when it comes to tournament football.

 

 

[Leicesterpool]

I'd go two up top for the next game, lets go for it with Kane and Calvert-Lewin. Have a straight forward 4-4-2.

 

Pickford

James

Stones

Mings

Chilwell (yes needed him last night i think)

Sancho

Phillips

Foden

Grealish

Kane

Calvert-Lewin

 

Yep taking a risk dropping Rice, but we don't need two DM. I want to us to go all out attack. Good thing about that squad is that it also can be changed to a diamond aswell having a choice of either Grealish or Foden behind the two.

Edited 19 June 2021 by Leicesterpool

[Duquesne Whistle]

England are hamstrung by 'undroppable' and 'have to be used' players, notably Kane, Rashford and Sterling, but there's more.

 

Kane looked ready for the knackers yard last night, hot on the heels of an unimpressive first match. I can't help but think that Rashford continuing to be played has more to do with his burgeoning media profile than his performances.  

 

I've never been a huge critic of Sterling for England. He makes great runs, taking defenders out of position and frightening them with his pace, and that's required when you have a team that's struggling to create, but how come he still looks like he has two left feet after this long playing the game? If he's given any time to think on the ball, the results are usually disastrous. The worst thing about that, is that without him, we look even less likely to score.

You can make an argument individually for Kane and Sterling, but that argument is waning with each game. I can't see an argument for Rashford coming on at all, and to have these 3 involved in the same 90 minutes on current form is abominable.

I've already had a back and forth with another poster on here regarding Grealish, but I still think he should be starting. He's no saviour, but set pieces are beginning to look our best chance under Southgate, in that case Grealish really is a must. He may well disappoint if he does, but we can't rely on Foden to supply every single piece of creativity, something else has to be tried before this tournament really gets going. 

 

I think Southgate will be surprisingly pleased by the result in private, regardless of any public utterances he makes. Ultimately, England are probably already through. That's the aim at tournaments and I think he'll personally be satisfied with that. Maybe we should all be, but it doesn't feel like that after watching them.

 

The potential 2nd round opponents look difficult whether you come 1st, 2nd or 3rd in this group, so qualification is the only thing that matters, in terms of results. Nobody will remember the dross served up last night if they start winning games. Starting to win games is the problem though. The Czechs are a physical team with a bit of nastiness, they won't be easy for a young England team. Everything after that looks a forlorn task if my first sentence is correct though.

[Vacamion]

2 hours ago, shailen said:

Overall England has lost nine matches on ITV and drawn 11. In comparison to the BBC, England’s record reads as Won: 14 Drawn: 3 Lost: 3. This gives England an impressive 70 per cent win rate on BBC, whereas on ITV it is a paltry 16.67 per cent.

 

Not only that, but ITV is shite in comparison.

 

They've improved their pundit and co-commentary staff a little bit (McCoist is rightly popular), but their build up is mostly a load of guff.

 

Worst of all, ITV have previous form (and in Scotland this has already happened once this tournament) of turning off the coverage *during the match* and showing adverts instead, which shows where their priorities lie.

 

Screw ITV.

 

 

[Duquesne Whistle]

6 minutes ago, Raj said:

Expectations.

The sooner England fans realise they are on par with teams like Denmark, Sweden etc and NOT the likes of France, Italy,Spain and Belgium the better for everyone.

Realistically never going to win another tournament(55 years and counting).

They can even make a striker like Harry Kane look League one when it comes to tournament football.

 

 

You can look through this site and find plenty of England fans who had little expectation in this tournament. You can find many others who felt no connection to the current squad either. My guess is age has some bearing on that.

 

Expectation is a funny thing. I'm not sure I totally believed the media hype as a youngster, but I certainly believed it more than I do these days as a miserable middle aged man who's seen it all before. We're not on a par with France, Italy or Spain, not when it comes to tournaments, when it's most needed. I'd be surprised if too many disagreed with that, providing they were sober when you asked them.

 

I'd hold fire on Belgium though, they've had a more talented bunch of players than I've ever seen play for England, yet they've ultimately disappointed in every tournament they've played. They out England, England for me, unless they win actually this one.

[Larry_LCFC]

Same shit different day. Southgate still playing people based on reputation and name rather than on merit. 

He is an utterly boring, unadventurous manager that will not take risks or try something different. Exactly the reason Vardy retired and stopped wasting his time with England. Kane is hugely hugely overrated.

[Facecloth]

29 minutes ago, Leicesterpool said:

I'd go two up top for the next game, lets go for it with Kane and Calvert-Lewin. Have a straight forward 4-4-2.

 

Pickford

James

Stones

Mings

Chilwell (yes needed him last night i think)

Sancho

Phillips

Foden

Grealish

Kane

Calvert-Lewin

 

Yep taking a risk dropping Rice, but we don't need two DM. I want to us to go all out attack. Good thing about that squad is that it also can be changed to a diamond aswell having a choice of either Grealish or Foden behind the two.

I'd go for something like this.

 

Pickford

 

James

Stones

Mings

Chilwell 

 

Rice

Bellingham

Foden

 

Grealish 

DCL

Sancho

[Leicesterpool]

5 minutes ago, Larry_LCFC said:

Same shit different day. Southgate still playing people based on reputation and name rather than on merit. 

He is an utterly boring, unadventurous manager that will not take risks or try something different. Exactly the reason Vardy retired and stopped wasting his time with England. Kane is hugely hugely overrated.

Its only the london brigade that rave abou Kane. Everyone north of watford can see his faults... amazing at club level but bang average at international level.

[Leicesterpool]

5 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I'd go for something like this.

 

Pickford

 

James

Stones

Mings

Chilwell 

 

Rice

Bellingham

Foden

 

Grealish 

DCL

Sancho

That is good team also, but that's too adventrous for Southgate plus none of his favourites are in there. What I like about that formation you got two good wingers in Grealish and Sancho with there pace and then at right back you've got the pace of James and Chilwell who can also cause problems on the overlap, I mean that's two waves of attack. A poor defence couldn't handle that, Scotland last night would have struggled with that prospect. Instead we'd stayed with stale formation with Sterling running round like headless chicken with Grealish getting in to good positions into the box waiting for a team mate to give him support which never came.

Edited 19 June 2021 by Leicesterpool

[Facecloth]

Can I just point put out the grief I got at the weekend for stating Sterling is shit, because he popped up with a goal against Croatia. He was poor for the vast majority of that game and again last night. He shouldn't be starting with the options we have.

[fazzyfox]

Frantic? There was one moment where Rice called for a simple 20 yard pass from his CB a few Scotland players would have been ahead of the ball giving us 7 v 7 but instead it goes to Shaw, back, back to Shaw, back, to other CB, back then the ball to Rice 1 min 15 secs later with all 11 Scots back behind the ball. I suppose to Southgate that equates to frantic in his unadventurous mind.

 

I get that Phillips is more than a DM, more of a CM and can play a bit as he showed v Croatia so there was always going to be a dilemma for this one. Leave out Rice and is Phillips good enough to handle a DM role on his own, or leave out Phillips after such a good performance? But come half time it needed another attacking player, Mount could go back into the Phillips role but no that would be reckless in Southgates book. It wasn't right in the first half, the majority of the players were playing their second game, there are 5 subs available, there needed to be at least one change to bring something new but no. Just reminded me of the Puel era with Mendy water carrying sideways and backwards all day.

 

Sterlings cynical attempt to win a penalty was embarrassing, he tried three times to initiate some contact, running down a blind alley with no intention of getting a cross in, resorting to cheating against mighty Scotland, just wish he'd focus on creating instead of his personal oneupmanship with his opponent.

 

And if Grealish isn't gelling with the others, whose fault is that, he should have been involved much earlier with the squad (in terms of years / months) not treated as a wild card addition, I detect the "frantic" quote is partly aimed at him as not everything he tries comes off but at least the tempo changes when he gets it, tempo that creates movement and pulling players out of position which is where errors and opportunities can come in tight games. Southgate probably has nightmares about Grealish's style of play why I bet he's never ever mastered the 40 yard pass back to the CB's, he'll never fit in.

[Leicesterpool]

One thing I had I have give minor praise for last to Southgate was bringing in James for Walker, I'm mean that looked good there was potiental there with James is pace and attacking threat from right back compared to Walker. It was the other side he got wrong it brought in defensive Shaw who really wasn't required and just came across as far too slow when came to attack, as keep seeing that was screaming out for Chilwell to come on, i mean as we seen in fa cup final Chilwell came on and caused all sorts of problems.

[Leicesterpool]

Would anyone agree that just maybe our bench was probably better than our starting XI yesterday 

[NasPb]

3 hours ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

Good post. Pretty well sums the situation up, particularly the highlighted part. 

Exactly. Mourinho for example in his prime was defensive and pragmatic but wasn't negative. There's a fine line between the two. Gareth doesn't have a clue and isn't fit to manage at this level. He's a yes man