England V Scotland Match Thread

[Scotch]

1 hour ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

I can totally understand why the fans enjoyed the result, not least for the reasons you've given above. I totally understand why not losing is a huge result for the Scottish fans and I don't mean that in a patronising way either. I am more puzzled by the players and Scottish media reaction though.

 

Last night was a massive opportunity missed for Scotland. Wembley has never been the happiest hunting ground, bit like Twickenham, and last night was a chance similar to the last 6 nations match, a chance of victory for the first time in a long, long time on English soil. A Don Hutchison goal, that ultimately meant little was the last time wasn't it? Scotland more than matched England last night and deserve huge praise for that, regardless of how England played. If one side edged it, it was Scotland. I just think the players will rue this game when the dust settles on the group. 

 

I get that you're still in with a shout going into the last game, but many thought you'd take something from the Czech game, so you're no further ahead than many expected. I just think, for the players at least, they've overplayed it a little. It's a huge missed opportunity to take a massive step towards qualification, in my humble opinion. 

 

I don't fancy Scotland at all in a game Croatia have to win, but what do I know, it's just opinion.

 

My good news for Scotland fans is this. England, well, I posted before the tournament that I just couldn't get excited at all about their prospects. Not just because of Southgate, but because we just don't have good enough players. There's always been better international teams than England out there. We have some good players, but every single one of them is over-hyped, it's just a matter of how much, depending on the club they're with. A lot of the England players are made to look better by the absolute quality around them in premier league clubs. Without players like Kante, Fernandez, De Bruyne et all round about them, how good would the likes of Sterling, Rashford and Mount really look? A little unfair on Mount, who has been a revelation for Chelsea this season, but true nonetheless.

 

I guess my overall point is, I think you're out game, but I also think England will be out the game after.

 

 

I don't agree with this highlighted part at all. 

 

We were the better team and were more deserving of the 3 points but thinking back on the game, I just can't see anything more that we could have done to win. 

 

Our midfield were excellent and we couldn't have asked more of them. Our defence worked tirelessly and we were much better there with Tierney and Mctominay making up part of the 3. 

Our wingbacks were never going to have great games going forward due to England's strength being on the wings.

Strikers are our weakest position. If we had a top quality striker, we would win far more games but I don't recall many chances that Dykes and Adams missed that they should have done more on. 

 

Say what you want about England's performance but we had to work extremely hard to get that point. Even in the 44th minute you could see how tired the players were so I can understand that release of emotion after the final whistle. 

 

The lap of honour was maybe a bit much but if it lifts the players and gives them confidence, I don't really care. Like I've said, Croatia should win but they have been nothing special. Pretty average actually and with the game being at Hampden.... We are entitled to feel slightly optimistic. 

[Corky]

I think this is part of the problem where routes in tournaments are pre-determined. You may be better off drawing or losing, finishing 2nd instead of 1st etc which can lead to dire games and safety football. A point isn't terrible but the ambition should always be to win the group and play with style.

 

It's why I believe the FA Cup is great- you get who you are given, no contrived paths. I realise in a tournament with a tight schedule it's not possible to have a draw three days before the next round but when you are plotting favourable routes forward it must have an impact.

[Leicesterpool]

Just now, Corky said:

I think this is part of the problem where routes in tournaments are pre-determined. You may be better off drawing or losing, finishing 2nd instead of 1st etc which can lead to dire games and safety football. A point isn't terrible but the ambition should always be to win the group and play with style.

 

It's why I believe the FA Cup is great- you get who you are given, no contrived paths. I realise in a tournament with a tight schedule it's not possible to have a draw three days before the next round but when you are plotting favourable routes forward it must have an impact.

Speaking of the FA Cup, if last night was like a FA Cup tie... like England were the Man City for example playing Scotland who were like the championship QPR would you see Man City sending out a squad playing defensive tactics against a lower league opposition? 

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

don't agree with this highlighted part at all. 

 

He doesn't either, he's just trying to transfer the embarrassment of the result by implying you shouldn't be happy with it either. 

 

And he had the nerve to accuse us of Celtic mind games. 

 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Raj said:

Expectations.

The sooner England fans realise they are on par with teams like Denmark, Sweden etc and NOT the likes of France, Italy,Spain and Belgium the better for everyone.

Realistically never going to win another tournament(55 years and counting).

They can even make a striker like Harry Kane look League one when it comes to tournament football.

 

 

Kane has never been any good in tournaments, apart from 6 goals in 2 games in the 2018 world cup, and they were against Panama and Tunisia, 3 being penalties and 1 deflected off his heel from a shot by Loftus Cheek so only 2 genuine striker goals, but he also failed to score against Columbia, Sweden, Croatia and Belgium. 2015 under 21's, Southgate was the manager by the way, he failed score in the 3 group games and they didn't qualify for the knockout stage, no goals in 3 euro 2016 group games,  and no goals so far in this competition. He's scored in 2 out of 12 games at tournament level. I think Southgate is banking on him somehow finding his PL form which, and i hope i'm wrong, ain't gonna happen.

 

 

 

[Facecloth]

[whoareyaaa]

Lingard would be a better option than Sterling .. hes just not got it right regardinh the formation and players 

[Raj]

AGAIN...11 crap players but its Sterling who gets singled out.

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, Raj said:

AGAIN...11 crap players but its Sterling who gets singled out.

Over two games he's been poor. 

 

But also Kane and Mount are being called out for poor games too. Sterling was the one who inexplicably stayed on for 90 minutes last night though.

[Raj]

8 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Over two games he's been poor. 

 

But also Kane and Mount are being called out for poor games too. Sterling was the one who inexplicably stayed on for 90 minutes last night though.

That's not his fault why he stayed on is it???

Always a scapegoat...dont get me wrong us City fans are the same...

 

[purpleronnie]

It was such an odd performance with players not looking interested, makes you wonder if all's well in the England camp.

[Deeg67]

5 hours ago, Langston said:

 

Wouldn't the best thing for England be winning the tournament?

Let's keep it realistic.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

53 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Over two games he's been poor. 

 

But also Kane and Mount are being called out for poor games too. Sterling was the one who inexplicably stayed on for 90 minutes last night though.

To be fair to Mount he must have been bemused that the Scottish players weren't running away from him in fear after he duffed-up Big Dan Amartey with his best hard-man stare.

[Facecloth]

57 minutes ago, Raj said:

That's not his fault why he stayed on is it???

Always a scapegoat...dont get me wrong us City fans are the same...

 

So I can't criticise his performance because its not his fault he stayed on? The length he Kane and Stetling stayed on is definitely down to Southgate, but that doesn't mean I can't criticise their performances.

[Guest StevieLynex]

1 hour ago, Raj said:

AGAIN...11 crap players but its Sterling who gets singled out.

I would imagine he probably earns the most, so you would expect more from him. It's not his fault, but he's vastly overrated

[Raj]

15 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

So I can't criticise his performance because its not his fault he stayed on? The length he Kane and Stetling stayed on is definitely down to Southgate, but that doesn't mean I can't criticise their performances.

 

12 minutes ago, StevieLynex said:

I would imagine he probably earns the most, so you would expect more from him. It's not his fault, but he's vastly overrated

Knock yourselves in criticising him, i think hes used to it.

In your opinions it'd be interesting to know who you deem NOT worthy of criticising so far in these performances for England...(the earning comment is just the usual easy throwback I'm afraid).

 

Edited 19 June 2021 by Raj

[Col city fan]

15 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

So I can't criticise his performance because its not his fault he stayed on? The length he Kane and Stetling stayed on is definitely down to Southgate, but that doesn't mean I can't criticise their performances.

I wouldn’t have kept Sterling on last night either. But we never looked like scoring in the second half whoever we had on

I’d have no surprise if Southgate had told them to play it slow and make sure we didn’t lose.

[shailen]

3 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

Not only that, but ITV is shite in comparison.

 

They've improved their pundit and co-commentary staff a little bit (McCoist is rightly popular), but their build up is mostly a load of guff.

 

Worst of all, ITV have previous form (and in Scotland this has already happened once this tournament) of turning off the coverage *during the match* and showing adverts instead, which shows where their priorities lie.

 

Screw ITV.

 

 

Totally agree. The amount of times the coverage was lost for a couple of seconds yesterday was annoying. Didn't they mess up at world cup 2010 just before England scored so the goal was missed. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 June 2021 by shailen
Found the link

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I wouldn’t have kept Sterling on last night either. But we never looked like scoring in the second half whoever we had on

I’d have no surprise if Southgate had told them to play it slow and make sure we didn’t lose.

That was down to the subs. We had 5, used 2. Why take Kane off for a player like Rashford when the Scots are defending deep? We had DCL on the bench, he's looked sharp when he played in the recent friendly. We had Sancho who has 16 goals and 20 assists this season. We didn't look like scoring because we didn't make enough changes and what we did change was nonsensical.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

So, let's say for the purposes of argument that Southgate does deserve the chop as is being advocated here.

 

With that said, what realistic candidates are out there that can get this team playing in the way that it is perceived they can?

 

Let's talk solutions, not problems.

Still waiting, still interested.

[Vacamion]

2 hours ago, Raj said:

AGAIN...11 crap players but its Sterling who gets singled out.

 

He was picked despite bad form at his club. 

 

He appears to have been selected based on his name and reputation, and maybe his price and wages, rather than his form.

 

So far, he hasn't lived up yet the faith the manager showed in him, whilst others with better claims to his place are left out.

 

It's hardly surprising he is being singled out for criticism.

 

 

Edited 19 June 2021 by Vacamion

[Raj]

1 minute ago, Vacamion said:

 

He was picked despite bad form at his club. 

 

He appears to have been selected based on his name and reputation, and maybe his price and wages, rather than his form.

 

So far, he hasn't lived up yet the faith the manager showed in him, whilst others with better claims to his place are left out.

 

It's hardly surprising he is being singled out for criticism.

 

 

Probably think of "easier" reasons people choose to single him out.....I dare not think what would have happened if Sterling missed that header yesterday that Stones missed...But hey ho....I'll leave it at that now...

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Can I just point put out the grief I got at the weekend for stating Sterling is shit, because he popped up with a goal against Croatia. He was poor for the vast majority of that game and again last night. He shouldn't be starting with the options we have.

He shouldn’t even be in the squad based on his form over the last season.

 

I'm not entirely sure what @Raj is trying to imply although I have an idea the route of which he is going down though in which case for balance, I said much more regarding Maddison not being near the squad (Of which he quite rightly isn't) with alot more conviction, criticism and vitriol. However if he was at a bigger club no doubt he'd be in the squad based on name and reputation.

 

I'd be replacing Sterling with Lingard of whom i've also slagged off in the past but he's been in form, bucked his ideas up and deserves a place on merit, opinions change based on circumstances and I see no reason to argue Sterlings inclusion in the current squad based on the last season.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

It's also refreshing to see people in the media being critical of Kane, it's not a witch hunt, no-one's being made a scapegoat, people are simply commenting on whats in front of them.

 

Edited 19 June 2021 by Matt

[Raj]

24 minutes ago, Matt said:

He shouldn’t even be in the squad based on his form over the last season.

 

I'm not entirely sure what @Raj is trying to imply although I have an idea the route of which he is going down though in which case for balance, I said much more regarding Maddison not being near the squad (Of which he quite rightly isn't) with alot more conviction, criticism and vitriol. However if he was at a bigger club no doubt he'd be in the squad based on name and reputation.

 

I'd be replacing Sterling with Lingard of whom i've also slagged off in the past but he's been in form, bucked his ideas up and deserves a place on merit, opinions change based on circumstances and I see no reason to argue Sterlings inclusion in the current squad based on the last season.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

It's also refreshing to see people in the media being critical of Kane, it's not a witch hunt, no-one's being made a scapegoat, people are simply commenting on whats in front of them.

 

Well done on a more balanced arguement  rather than the boring "He earns loads etc= the whole squad are millionaires at the end of the day.

Maybe I am thinking too much about the real reason he always gets stick, previous media stuff about his gun tattoo, outspoken comments about the BLM, racist sh1t he gets on social media.

Probably shouldn't have been picked and maybexeasier for him if he was let out.

Still stick by what I said about the Stones header yesterday, but although Kane IS getting some criticism  the pundits are very quick to point out WHY hes off form( the transfer talk/ tiredness/ rubbish contribution from midfield etc...) 

 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Still waiting, still interested.

You'll probably be waiting a long time because while there are plenty of good managers out there, none of us realistically have any idea which of them are interested in international management. The "well who would you get instead?" argument doesn't really apply to international football as it does to club football. It should be well within the capabilities of the FA to find a manager capable of extracting more from this group of players than Southgate - it's not a high bar to clear.