England V Scotland Match Thread

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Guest said:

You'll probably be waiting a long time because while there are plenty of good managers out there, none of us realistically have any idea which of them are interested in international management. The "well who would you get instead?" argument doesn't really apply to international football as it does to club football. It should be well within the capabilities of the FA to find a manager capable of extracting more from this group of players than Southgate - it's not a high bar to clear.

That's fair enough - especially the bit about the FA.

 

I was just hoping that folks who wanted Southgate gone would actually have more of an idea of who would take the job and be better at it, in order to make the discussion here a mite more constructive and varied.

[Facecloth]

1 hour ago, Raj said:

Well done on a more balanced arguement  rather than the boring "He earns loads etc= the whole squad are millionaires at the end of the day.

Maybe I am thinking too much about the real reason he always gets stick, previous media stuff about his gun tattoo, outspoken comments about the BLM, racist sh1t he gets on social media.

Probably shouldn't have been picked and maybexeasier for him if he was let out.

Still stick by what I said about the Stones header yesterday, but although Kane IS getting some criticism  the pundits are very quick to point out WHY hes off form( the transfer talk/ tiredness/ rubbish contribution from midfield etc...) 

 

I'd just like to point out my criticism of Kane and Sterling may come across differently for one reason, and i have been critical of both.

 

The reason is, we all know what Kane is capable of, and whilst I don't think he's the level some claim he his, he's a very good striker, and he looks off the pace, and unfit. My criticism of him is also aimed at the management for persisting with him

 

My criticism of Sterling isnt because I think he's playing below himself, it's that I think this is how good he is, and it isnt good enough. Kane had shown in the past his attributes of being strong, good in the air, good with both feet, good, good movement etc everything you want from a striker. Sterling imo has always been shit at dribbling, always been slow in his thought process, alway had a weak shot and a weak cross. Sterling has great movement, but we also have players who have that attribute too who also have everything Sterling doesn't. Rashford, Sterling, Grealish all better in almost every expect of the game.

 

The abuse Sterling gets from the media, and I have spent far too long online pointing the difference in treatment he gets from say someone like Foden when they both have doen the same thing. I'm not disputing that. There is clearly an agenda in the media against him and some black players, but that's not whats happening here, certainly not from me.

[ScotFox1]

Great result for Scotland.. not so much for England!  Let's all move to what I hope is an exciting Tuesday night for the final group game 👍

[OntarioFox]

18 hours ago, jayfox26 said:

We have played Croatia who are an ageing team and are bang average and Scotland who are a really poor side (proven by Czech Rep) and have had 3 shots on target scoring once. 

 

Whilst we will likely qualify we have been so crap its incredible. Our biggest strength is our attacking talent yet Southgate chooses to play safe.

 

It feels like Ancelotti with Everton where he had some decent attacking talent but a garbage defence so wanted to protect his poor defence by playing incredibly defensive every single game and stilfing the attacking talent. Southgate is doing the same and we will get ripped by a decent team. I actually fear for us against Czech Rep as they have looked much better than we have. Denmark haven't got a single point but have looked miles better than us and of course the terrible incident with Eriksen has hampered them but it just shows that there are many teams that currently look better than England. 

Agree with all this, except the defensive comparison. I've been pretty happy with Mings and Stones defensively so far. The problem is that Southgate is afraid to back then to do a job and bring the fullbacks forward more regularly to bolster what is, frankly, a garbage and powderpuff midfield. It's another example of him not backing players that aren't his favourites - in this case Maguire - to do a job. It's an insult to the abilities of the best English centre back in the Prem last year, and someone who had a solid year for a much-improved Villa.

 

The fact we were played off the middle of the park by a largely Championship-standard outfit yesterday is telling. Still processing A) why Foden was taken off while Mount remained to stink up our performance and B) Reece James emerged as our main attacking threat, despite spending most of the game shackled in our defensive third.

 

We don't have a midfield. It's a blatantly lightweight and disjointed setup, so we're skipping the middle of the park and playing shite, negative football akin to peak Puelball on the slim hope that Kane or Sterling will break the lines - which to give Phillips credit, he managed to acheive in the single quality passage of play we've managed in 180 minutes of turgid, crappy anti-football so far.

 

The answer is so bleeding obvious too and I've already said it - bring the fullbacks forwards and stop wrapping our perfectly capable centre backs in cotton wool. Two extra bodies in midfield with the ability to track back during defensive phases. Options. Variety of play. Forward passing.

 

I know it's a cliché that everyone thinks they could do a better job than X or Y manager, but in this case most of us actually could. I'm pretty much done with Southgate after yesterday. Our entire setup can be summed up in one word: cowardly.

Edited 19 June 2021 by OntarioFox

[Parafox]

20 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Truthfully the best thing for England would be to bow out of this tournament as early as possible and get Southgate fired.  They're no threat to win it or any major competition as long as he's in charge.

He even looks like a coward. Someone who'd go down after one slap in face in the school playground.

[Parafox]

10 hours ago, leicsmac said:

That's fair enough - especially the bit about the FA.

 

I was just hoping that folks who wanted Southgate gone would actually have more of an idea of who would take the job and be better at it, in order to make the discussion here a mite more constructive and varied.

No one would want to take on this poison chalice. They're always up against the FA. That's why we have the spineless national managers we've had for as long as I can remember. They'll take the purse they're promised and they try. But we'll never succeed. We simply don't have the national talent to challenge the likes of France, Germany, Italy. Let's accept where we are in international football.

We drew 0-0 to Scotland. That's about our level.

[Dan LCFC]

16 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Just listened to some of his post match comments.  We played too frantically apparently.  

 

There is no response to that.  Just 

 

He's clueless.

It's just unbelievable how he can come out with that kind of nonsense. I really do think this is a frequent mistake England managers make as well in that instead of being straight up about what was served up they just talk a load of nonsense that alienates the fans. I'd rather he'd been truthful about that last night and I think he'd have more fans on side if he was. There'd be more forgiveness. If the players can't take that kind of honesty then they're maybe not as cut out for the top as we thought.

[CosbehFox]

Southgate (as along as Maguire) is out as bedded himself to the formation with these players. There are three tactical errors within that. 
 

The full backs don’t feel like they can get forward because they are not protected. 
 

Mount in a midfield three means the midfield becomes a two and we lack a driving midfielder. Rice without another screener type midfielder can’t commit himself and his positional play is poor. 
 

Upfront is the main issue. Kane comes deep which doesn’t leave any threat to behind the defence. So he plays Sterling for pace. He’s woefully out of form. Now the right wing is where his defensive nature comes out. By logic it should be another pacy player but he’s too worried about exposing the right back. He won’t play Foden and Grealish because we need pace as along as Kane plays. He won’t play Sancho and another quicker winger as along as Kane plays. There’s an answer there without too much analysis 

[Col city fan]

Was discussing the England match yesterday with a couple of mates having a nice drink in Stamford.

We concluded that for 20 yr old Billy Gilmour to have controlled the midfield, we must have been doing something very wrong tactically 

[foxfanazer]

The only thing that surprises me is that people are surprised how bang average we are. People hyping us up after that last World Cup campaign shows just how low the standards have dropped. You'll never win a major tournament with a Gareth Southgate in charge

 

There's no patterns of play, no real cohesive gameplan and no genuine world class player to.drag us out of the shit when things ain't ticking. Not even disappointed anymore as I expect no more from the current setup

Edited 20 June 2021 by foxfanazer

[Corky]

Southgate peaked too early, reaching a semi-final in his first tournament has heightened expectations.

[Bert]

16 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

The only thing that surprises me is that people are surprised how bang average we are. People hyping us up after that last World Cup campaign shows just how low the standards have dropped. You'll never win a major tournament with a Gareth Southgate in charge

 

There's no patterns of play, no real cohesive gameplan and no genuine world class player to.drag us out of the shit when things ain't ticking. Not even disappointed anymore as I expect no more from the current setup

There’s a world class striker. But for some unknown reason he’s dropping 40 yards deep and getting no service. 

[HybridFox]

15 minutes ago, Corky said:

Southgate peaked too early, reaching a semi-final in his first tournament has heightened expectations.

Did a sh*** job with the Under 21s as well

[foxfanazer]

8 minutes ago, Bert said:

There’s a world class striker. But for some unknown reason he’s dropping 40 yards deep and getting no service. 

Yeah he just isn't the type of player that is gonna grab the game by the scruff of the neck and pull us through tough games. If we play well he'll look good but if not he's anonymous

[Duquesne Whistle]

23 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

He doesn't either, he's just trying to transfer the embarrassment of the result by implying you shouldn't be happy with it either. 

 

And he had the nerve to accuse us of Celtic mind games. 

 

I doubt you’ll accept it…,but you’re genuinely quite wide of the mark there Finnegan.

Embarrassment for me these days is reserved for things like groaning when I get up out of a chair in front of strangers or falling over when I try to complete a simple 10 yard pass to a nephew (or when the font appears like it does in this post and I don't know how to change it), not for when a disparate band of footballers I’ve casually followed for a few decades draw a football match, again. 

 

In terms of the England football team, I occasionally suffer mild disappointment these days. Quite often, it’s indifference. Embarrassment though? Definitely not. As for ‘transferring embarrassment’, that sounds like something a 19-year-old or a regressed hipster might fall foul of... not a world-weary 50 something. 

 

Other than stating I was puzzled by the Scottish (players) celebrations and thinking their team had missed a big opportunity, I think I’ve been respectful of Scotland supporters in this thread, even if they may not agree with my opinion at times. It’s all just ‘bantz’ though, right? I think that's the term you 'youngsters' use.

 

I think that’s a courteous rebuttal, so I’ll leave it at that.

 

In the interests of forum harmony, I’ll finish by wishing your Welsh heroes the best of luck against Italy today, before I instantly pop you on ignore. 

 

[Phube]

The sad thing is, if Stones had scored with his point blank header... we'd have been back to being world beaters and among the favourites for the Championship with Southgate being lorded  as the tactical genius again (Just like the Croatia game).

[Finnegan]

9 minutes ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

I doubt you’ll accept it…,but you’re genuinely quite wide of the mark there Finnegan.

Embarrassment for me these days is reserved for things like groaning when I get up out of a chair in front of strangers or falling over when I try to complete a simple 10 yard pass to a nephew (or when the font appears like it does in this post and I don't know how to change it), not for when a disparate band of footballers I’ve casually followed for a few decades draw a football match, again. 

 

In terms of the England football team, I occasionally suffer mild disappointment these days. Quite often, it’s indifference. Embarrassment though? Definitely not. As for ‘transferring embarrassment’, that sounds like something a 19-year-old or a regressed hipster might fall foul of... not a world-weary 50 something. 

 

Other than stating I was puzzled by the Scottish (players) celebrations and thinking their team had missed a big opportunity, I think I’ve been respectful of Scotland supporters in this thread, even if they may not agree with my opinion at times. It’s all just ‘bantz’ though, right? I think that's the term you 'youngsters' use.

 

I think that’s a courteous rebuttal, so I’ll leave it at that.

 

In the interests of forum harmony, I’ll finish by wishing your Welsh heroes the best of luck against Italy today, before I instantly pop you on ignore. 

 

 

I mean, it was a fairly throw away joke but you do you mate

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

Yeah he just isn't the type of player that is gonna grab the game by the scruff of the neck and pull us through tough games. If we play well he'll look good but if not he's anonymous

I think it’s so obvious about how Kane is playing and not performing currently for England. 
He’ll drop off so deep to recieve the ball, then give it to one of the midfielders and the fact that Kane HAS dropped so deep means there’s no striker to pass to!?

Literally, the likes of Foden and Sterling then look up and see no obvious pass forward.

It’s a bizarre way to play really. 
Either Kane holds his position further forward or we get a second striker to play alongside him

Edited 20 June 2021 by Col city fan

[Tielemans63]

Watching SSN and various other sports channels today, you'd think Scotland were brilliant in the game. They really weren't, they were okay. All these ex Scottish internationals talking about Scotland going deep into the tournament, - pretty sure you need to score a goal to do that.

 

Some significant revisionism going on here.

Edited 20 June 2021 by Paddy.

[ealingfox]

26 minutes ago, Paddy. said:

Watching SSN and various other sports channels today, you'd think Scotland were brilliant in the game. They really weren't, they were okay. All these ex Scottish internationals talking about Scotland going deep into the tournament, - pretty sure you need to score a goal to do that.

 

Some significant revisionism going on here.

 

The Greece Class of 2004 would beg to differ 

 

edit - I've just looked that up and it's actually a bit of a myth that they 0-0ed their way to the final  

Edited 20 June 2021 by ealingfox

[Guest ttfn]

 Classic. 

Edited 20 June 2021 by ttfn

[Scotch]

25 minutes ago, ttfn said:

 Classic. 

Who said that? Lol

 

*edit* Never mind. I just saw that it was O'Donnell. That's class. 

Edited 20 June 2021 by Foxy_Bear

[Wymsey]

It'd be an excuse to say that Kane isn't doing well currently due to his and his club's uncertain situations.

As, like others have said, he sometimes goes missing in big games.

Edited 20 June 2021 by Wymsey

[filbertway]

Kane isnt the problem. It's the system.

 

Schick has scored more goals than our entire team has had shots on target in the first 2 games

 

Southgate has removed any excitement for me. It's so bland and unenjoyable

Edited 21 June 2021 by filbertway

[Ric Flair]

On 20/06/2021 at 01:36, Parafox said:

No one would want to take on this poison chalice. They're always up against the FA. That's why we have the spineless national managers we've had for as long as I can remember. They'll take the purse they're promised and they try. But we'll never succeed. We simply don't have the national talent to challenge the likes of France, Germany, Italy. Let's accept where we are in international football.

We drew 0-0 to Scotland. That's about our level.

Don't get me wrong, I like to take the piss out of England but our level ought to be challenging for trophies. We have the best domestic league in the world and produce some exceptional players but there's no identity, the managers we appoint are absolutely horrifying to boot.