England v Denmark Weds 07/07/21 20:00

[Criggers]

55 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

It might also be because we're playing dull, dull defensive football with a characterless team. I don't think we need to see ourselves as victims somehow. Our football is hardly inspiring.

Everyone loved it when Greece won and that was probably the most boringly won competition in history. Other than the fact they were massive underdogs.

 

Point being, the boring football is an excuse. Spain were phenomenal but also kinda boring. The flair teams and full attack teams often get plaudits but don't win. Germany 06 comes to mind. They were fantastic but fell short. Denmark last night themselves were playing for penalties so they were hardly any more deserving. Attemp at goal stats back that up too.

[foxes_rule1978]

8 minutes ago, Criggers said:

Everyone loved it when Greece won and that was probably the most boringly won competition in history. Other than the fact they were massive underdogs.

 

Point being, the boring football is an excuse. Spain were phenomenal but also kinda boring. The flair teams and full attack teams often get plaudits but don't win. Germany 06 comes to mind. They were fantastic but fell short. Denmark last night themselves were playing for penalties so they were hardly any more deserving. Attemp at goal stats back that up too.

Exactly this, I didn’t hear complaints when Portugal bored their way to the title in 2016 either and we have been better created far more than they did. Against Croatia they had no shots on goal. Stuck 2 past Germany 4 past Ukraine, 2 past Denmark forcing Kasper into several top saves… it wasn’t boring 

Edited 8 July 2021 by foxes_rule1978

[HesNotGudjonsonn2]

Anyone know why Lineker, Shearer and Jenas were all wearing the same shoes yesterday? Just curious really. 

[Tinman]

7 minutes ago, HesNotGudjonsonn2 said:

Anyone know why Lineker, Shearer and Jenas were all wearing the same shoes yesterday? Just curious really. 

Thought it was only me that noticed

[NasPb]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Nobody else would do that... like the Spanish, or French, or Italians or even more recently the zee Germans.

 

Of course there is an element of that, there is an element of English arrogance and behaviour abroad as well. 

 

I think there is an element of jealousy as well, that such a small county can still have such a global cultural impact long after the empire has gone. 

 

Oh and they hate that English has taken over as the main language. 

I'm not saying any European nation is innocent. In fact, id say the French are absolutely the worst. Just saying it's not as simple as brexit. Colonialism is bad regardless if it's French British American Chinese Russian Spanish or whatever 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, NasPb said:

I'm not saying any European nation is innocent. In fact, id say the French are absolutely the worst. Just saying it's not as simple as brexit. Colonialism is bad regardless if it's French British American Chinese Russian Spanish or whatever 

My point is they’ve all done it, and yet all hate us. And we were hated long before brexit, so it’s nothing to do with that. You’d think they’d be happy about that. 
 

So there is more to it than brexit and colonies.

[shen]

17 minutes ago, Criggers said:

Everyone loved it when Greece won and that was probably the most boringly won competition in history. Other than the fact they were massive underdogs.

 

Point being, the boring football is an excuse. Spain were phenomenal but also kinda boring. The flair teams and full attack teams often get plaudits but don't win. Germany 06 comes to mind. They were fantastic but fell short. Denmark last night themselves were playing for penalties so they were hardly any more deserving. Attemp at goal stats back that up too.

You must be misremembering. Greece were by no means universally loved when they won. They were probably the least popular underdog in history. Denmark were drained and being forced back by a physically superior England side. Bit unfair to say they played for penalties when they obviously tried to go forward, but just didn't have the resources. On balance of play, Spain deserved to go through to the final, but didn't; England deserved to go through and did.
 

11 minutes ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

Exactly this, I didn’t hear complaints when Portugal bored their way to the title in 2016 either and we have been better created far more than they did. Against Croatia they had no shots on goal. Stuck 2 past Germany 4 past Ukraine, 2 past Denmark forcing Kasper into several top saves… it wasn’t boring 

You didn't hear complaints about Portugal? Come on man, the entire continent was up in arms, bar the Portuguese and the France-haters.
England were extremely conservative/efficient in the group stage, mustering five (!) shots on target over three games. Against Germany it was much of the same until the breakthrough, while the superior physicality showed against tired Ukraine and Denmark.

Nothing wrong with this, football is about winning and Southgate and England have done just enough to do achieve just that, which does command a big deal of respect. But to become a widely popular side in major tournaments, there needs to be more than results, especially if the side is a pre-tournament favourite.

[NasPb]

7 minutes ago, Babylon said:

My point is they’ve all done it, and yet all hate us. And we were hated long before brexit, so it’s nothing to do with that. You’d think they’d be happy about that. 
 

So there is more to it than brexit and colonies.

It's nuanced of course. There's no doubt about that 

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

I wonder what we did to make us so unpopular?

 

 

I guess that Europe must despise Wales as well if that's the case. Brexit was popular in the Principality. 

[shen]

3 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

I guess that Europe must despise Wales as well if that's the case. Brexit was popular in the Principality. 

Half of Europe probably don't know where Wales is...

[foxes_rule1978]

8 minutes ago, shen said:

You must be misremembering. Greece were by no means universally loved when they won. They were probably the least popular underdog in history. Denmark were drained and being forced back by a physically superior England side. Bit unfair to say they played for penalties when they obviously tried to go forward, but just didn't have the resources. On balance of play, Spain deserved to go through to the final, but didn't; England deserved to go through and did.
 

You didn't hear complaints about Portugal? Come on man, the entire continent was up in arms, bar the Portuguese and the France-haters.
England were extremely conservative/efficient in the group stage, mustering five (!) shots on target over three games. Against Germany it was much of the same until the breakthrough, while the superior physicality showed against tired Ukraine and Denmark.

Nothing wrong with this, football is about winning and Southgate and England have done just enough to do achieve just that, which does command a big deal of respect. But to become a widely popular side in major tournaments, there needs to be more than results, especially if the side is a pre-tournament favourite.

Again just excuses when England do start scoring and playing good football. That is why whatever England and Southgate do you will just nitpick… England only just got going in group stage, best not to peak then, Germany thrashed Portugal so being cautious against one of the best is what I call good football smart football, we still scored 2 very good goals though that were brilliantly worked 

[leicsmac]

Whoever had the laser pointer should be banned from all football stadia in the UK and abroad for life.

 

Can't see the need for sanctioning the team for something they had zero control over, though.

 

NB. WRT general anti-Anglo antipathy, other countries may have been more merciless at the empire game than the UK was but I'm thinking not many managed to do it in so many different places and thereby piss a generally larger spectrum of people off. Ditto for recent times with Europe.

 

Edit: put it this way for a European metaphor; you're in a dreadful life-threatening situation, and someone you know pretty well and get along with (mostly, anyway) saves your life. All well and good...except they then use what happened there as the defining characteristic of the relationship between the two of you for the next several decades, and take every opportunity to remind you of it when there's a disagreement. At what point do you stop becoming grateful to that friend and start becoming resentful?

Edited 8 July 2021 by leicsmac

[RoboFox]

I’m very hungover and I felt all emotional reliving the game via highlights, not necessary because England won but because our captain showed everyone that he’s right up there with the best in the world.

 

Edited 8 July 2021 by RoboFox

[shen]

Just now, foxes_rule1978 said:

Again just excuses when England do start scoring and playing good football. That is why whatever England and Southgate do you will just nitpick… England only just got going in group stage, best not to peak then, Germany thrashed Portugal so being cautious against one of the best is what I call good football smart football, we still scored 2 very good goals though that were brilliantly worked 

I'm not making excuses, why would I? I'm merely trying to offer an explanation as to why it might feel like England aren't universally liked for their football despite getting to the final.

Obviously Denmark had massive support as the underdog at Wembley in this particular game what with all the Eriksen-stuff, but it really didn't matter if it was England, Germany or France they were playing against. No doubt the reaction would've been the same if that was Werner or Mbappé winning that penalty.

To me, the non-sequitur "not peaking in the group stages" is just a way of trying to deflect the criticism - Italy came out storming and are now in the final. England arguably played their best game against Denmark and deservedly progressed. Finals often tend to be cagey or less entertaining than the semis, but I'm hoping for a good game against Italy.
  

[KrefelderFox666]

2 hours ago, Unabomber said:

The booing of the Danish anthem was very odd. I understand against Germany and Scotland but Denmark? 

It shouldn't happen at all, no matter who the opposition is. It's just respect, like keeping silent for a minute's silence. British people of the past were very respectful but that culture has all but gone.

 

By all means, boo as much as you want after/before and during the game, that's what fans are there for, make the "away" team uncomfortable.

[foxes_rule1978]

33 minutes ago, shen said:

I'm not making excuses, why would I? I'm merely trying to offer an explanation as to why it might feel like England aren't universally liked for their football despite getting to the final.

Obviously Denmark had massive support as the underdog at Wembley in this particular game what with all the Eriksen-stuff, but it really didn't matter if it was England, Germany or France they were playing against. No doubt the reaction would've been the same if that was Werner or Mbappé winning that penalty.

To me, the non-sequitur "not peaking in the group stages" is just a way of trying to deflect the criticism - Italy came out storming and are now in the final. England arguably played their best game against Denmark and deservedly progressed. Finals often tend to be cagey or less entertaining than the semis, but I'm hoping for a good game against Italy.
  

I just feel you aren’t giving Southgate or England any credit, just we are physically stronger and the opposition tired rubbish…rather than we are deserved finalist producing some good football when needed, playing smart football and trying to control the games. Nothing wrong with being cautious it is tournament football especially during the group stage, that doesn’t mean you can’t be a great side while playing that style.. 

[Foxxed]

1 hour ago, Criggers said:

Everyone loved it when Greece won and that was probably the most boringly won competition in history. Other than the fact they were massive underdogs.

 

Point being, the boring football is an excuse. Spain were phenomenal but also kinda boring. The flair teams and full attack teams often get plaudits but don't win. Germany 06 comes to mind. They were fantastic but fell short. Denmark last night themselves were playing for penalties so they were hardly any more deserving. Attemp at goal stats back that up too.

Yeah but Greece were the ultimate underdogs. We're a top 6 team. We could play exciting football with exciting world-class players but Southgate can't do anything but shithouse it. And it's working and it's great but it's shithousing a tournament.

 

Also, it's bollocks that the anti-English team stuff comes from Brexit or the empire or any of that shite.

 

Other fans spent 120 minutes watch us play dull defensive football when we have exciting world-class attacking players on the bench. We quickly subbed our one exciting player. We were given an easy draw playing to home crowds. We proudly jeered at seeing 7 year old girl cry. Got to the final with a soft penalty. Tried to blind Kasper with a laser pen. Knocked out the feel-good team of the tournament. I like some of the player. And this is the furthest we've ever come in the Euros. I want us to hammer the Italians. We're not a vile team. But we're not a likeable team. It's nothing to do with politics.

 

Edited 8 July 2021 by Foxxed

[whoareyaaa]

not long got up had a right hangover when I woke up earlier so went back bed.

 

Well it wasn't pretty but we are in the final !!! brilliant stuff.

 

We deserved the win overall, Kasper done well to keep us out and Sterling was a man on a mission, props!!

 

Italy v England final, lovely.

[Criggers]

29 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Yeah but Greece were the ultimate underdogs. We're a top 6 team. We could play exciting football with exciting world-class players but Southgate can't do anything but shithouse it. And it's working and it's great but it's shithousing a tournament.

 

Also, it's bollocks that the anti-English team stuff comes from Brexit or the empire or any of that shite.

 

Other fans spent 120 minutes watch us play dull defensive football when we have exciting world-class attacking players on the bench. We quickly subbed our one exciting player. We were given an easy draw playing to home crowds. We proudly jeered at seeing 7 year old girl cry. Got to the final with a soft penalty. Tried to blind Kasper with a laser pen. Knocked out the feel-good team of the tournament. I like some of the player. And this is the furthest we've ever come in the Euros. I want us to hammer the Italians. We're not a vile team. But we're not a likeable team. It's nothing to do with politics.

 

We didn’t do that. Some people did. And the wielder of the laser pen for example should be found and dealt with.

 

But if you think piss taking doesn’t happen in other countries you’re mad. I don’t agree with it, but it absolutely happens all over the gaff.

[lgfualol]

1 hour ago, shen said:

Half of Europe probably don't know where Wales is...

What's Wales? Do you mean West England

[Criggers]

Also the argument of Denmark going for the win, and Italy coming out the blocks etc.

 

Spain started the tournament poorly and arguably deserved the win against Italy. Denmark lost their first two matches and were it not for Belgium’s 100% record would have been out. Nobody is perfect. Everyone needs some luck.

 

I don’t know what England have done wrong really. I think if we were watching this and it was Germany in our position playing this way we’d probably say they’re boring but well drilled and know how to win. And probably admire it!

 

As a fan I find it frustrating that we don’t attack more, it absolutely broke me last night that we played for the corner when we could have scored another goal or two. We shut up shop and let them attack when we could have just dominated (in my opinion). But at the end of the day we’re winning. And that’s the objective. So who is going to complain about that?

[Ric Flair]

I think the reason we are hated is that we have the best fans in the world across ALL main sports. There's so much bitterness and jealousy at our fan base. I know we created most sports but if only countries could create better fans, they certainly have created superior teams and individuals but the fans have an obstinate hatred of England because they can't match the following in passion and originality. They also can't drink as much as us. 

 

 

[shen]

17 minutes ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

I just feel you aren’t giving Southgate or England any credit, just we are physically stronger and the opposition tired rubbish…rather than we are deserved finalist producing some good football when needed, playing smart football and trying to control the games. Nothing wrong with being cautious it is tournament football especially during the group stage, that doesn’t mean you can’t be a great side while playing that style.. 

Quite the opposite, I've praised and congratulated England for yesterday's game if you look through my many posts in this thread.

I've praised their composure in possession, their pressing and their mental approach. Tactically attacking down Vestergaard's side was astute and have Walker cover behind Maguire and Stones on the counter snuffed out any chance the Danes had.
I've said in every post that you deserved to go through and tried to explain how many great sides aren't universally loved.

[Raj]

@shen has been a model poster throughout.

[Footballwipe]

We lose = Some England fans say we're shit

We win = Some England fans say we're still shit

We get to a final = Some England fans say we've not played "good enough football"

 

We win on Sunday = Some England fans will find ANY WAY they can to shit on the team. It'll never be good enough for some. I think people love revelling in the failure and criticism, or they're just jealous that when they were "really into" following England they weren't as good.

 

Whatever the case, dry your eyes. This is an amazing time, the atmosphere was electric and I'm so buzzed for how everyone is bracing for Sunday. It will be fantastic.