Congerton to Atalanta

[Stadt]

There's obviously a hierarchy when it comes to recruitment. Yeah, we have a whole host of analysts and scouts but ultimately it'll be Congerton and Rudkin signing off on players. If a scout is saying player X is great and player Y we need to avoid, but if Congerton likes Y then how do you think it would pan out? Even now, a lot of recruitment is carried out on intuition and Congerton's track record elsewhere isn't very good and, charitably, it's best described as 'mixed' here.

 

We've never probably addressed our RW issue, we've ended up with a bit of a mess at CB and Soumare is a player that hasn't solved any of our issues (although he may come good). Daka, Justin and Fofana are fantastic signings and to be even-handed he deserves some credit for being part of the process that brought those players in. However those players are aligned with our longstanding model - the players that have been a clear departure from how we worked before Congerton arrived, (Perez, Vestergaard & Bertrand) have been very costly financially and in results.

 

The most damning indictment is most people are saying "I thought he'd be worse!" . 

 

Edited 20 December 2021 by Stadt

[MPH]

3 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

If you take out the frees Under, Lookman, Bennett, Bertrand which is bargain bin shopping and Tielemans because he was already in the building.  

 

It leaves this:

 

Excellent business Fofana, Justin, Daka

Good: Castagne

OK: Praet, Perez, Soumare

BAD: Vestergaard,

 

You could stick Perez in bad for value for money.

 

Good out weighs the bad for me.

 

Let be honest people made the mind up about the guy before he arrived. 

 

 

no one wants someone at the club with the last name Congerton..

[Ric Flair]

21 minutes ago, CloudFox said:

Any suggestions for who could replace him?

Oh god, it makes sense now after he's moved in to scouting for us. It's going to be Sir Steve Beaglehole, @themightyfin was right, be careful what we wish for 🙃

[Richard]

The signing of Bertrand was fine. Yeah he’s not brilliant but he’s experienced and takes the pressure off Thomas starting every week - we saw how Chilwell struggled with that. 
 

Vestergaard is indefensible though. We were told he was shit, we thought he was shit, and turns out yeah he is shit and £15m down the drain when we really needed someone to step in immediately. 
 

Perez if the £30m was to be believed was way overpriced. If he cost £10m we’d say he was a decent signing but he just can’t replicate his Newcastle form looks just like a Liverpool Rodgers signing

[hackneyfox]

Bertrand was fine?

He has a long way to step-up to reavh that level.

[Mark_w]

20 minutes ago, Stadt said:

the players that have been a clear departure from how we worked before Congerton, (Perez, Vestergaard & Bertrand) have been very costly.

Are they a clear departure from how we worked before?

Vestegaard for £15m from Southampton as a back-up CB feels theoretically similar to signing Danny Ward from Liverpool as a back-up keeper for roughly the same amount to me. I know there's an age difference, but I don't think we expected to recoup that for Ward. I think they were seen as solid backup who would last us for at least a few seasons in the relatively unlikely situation that we'd need to use them.

Bertrand on a free feels very similar to Albrighton on a free or Simpson for a couple of million to me. Experienced Premier League back-up, relatively inexpensive.

Perez for £30m is maybe a bit of an outlier, but he has at least worked out better for us than trying to solve that particular issue with Diabate or Ghezzal.

Not for one minute saying those three have worked out anywhere near as well as equivalent signings, but they're not a complete departure from our previous recruitment approach.

Edited 20 December 2021 by Mark_w

[Raw Dykes]

2 hours ago, Spudulike said:

What's Steve Walsh doing these days? That said, I think his rep got destroyed at Everton. 

No idea how much truth there is to it, but I think he claimed that all his suggestions for signings were ignored at Everton.

[StriderHiryu]

56 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

He's not been bad. I think the real sticking point is that for every Fofana there have been some absolute howlers - Bennett, Under, Vestergaard. 

 

Rather promote from the academy and save the money if that's the quality of your "squad players"

Two of those were squad players and one was signed in an emergency and based on previous scouting. IMO the bigger mistakes are Dennis Praet and Ayoze Perez. Both very decent players, but for a combined 50m they've had little impact on the first team, which a club like ours can't really afford to waste money on. If we spend 20-30m on a player, I expect that player to make an impact, even if just from a squad perspective. Daka I think is the best example, not a first team player buy when he plays, boy does he make you stand up and notice!

 

During his time here we signed JJ, Fofana, Daka and Castagne. For me he's about on par with Macia under whom we signed Soyuncu, Ricardo and Maddison. 

[MattFox]

19 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

No idea how much truth there is to it, but I think he claimed that all his suggestions for signings were ignored at Everton.

Sigurddsson and Keane were both linked to us when he was here so I’m not sure if that’s just Walsh trying to protect himself…

 

Gueye was a massive success at Everton though and definitely a Walsh signing 

[The_77]

2 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Justin was being linked to us way before Congerton came in. Castagne is the main one I think Congerton gets credit for as he'd been a target for them at Celtic. Fofana/Daka are signs that there's still life in the old dog but I'm surprised at how many people don't think our recruitment has dipped since he came in.

This window belongs in a transfer hall of fame.

[LcFc_Smiv]

Christmas has come early, see ya!

[Stadt]

Just now, Mark_w said:

Are they a clear departure from how we worked before?

Vestegaard for £15m from Southampton as a back-up CB feels theoretically similar to signing Danny Ward from Liverpool as a back-up keeper for roughly the same amount to me. I know there's an age difference, but I don't think we expected to recoup that for Ward. I think they were seen as solid backup who would last us for at least a few seasons in the realtively unlikely situation that we'd need to use them.

Bertrand on a free feels very similar to Albrighton on a free or Simpson for a couple of million to me. Experienced Premier League back-up, relatively inexpensive.

Perez for £30m is maybe a bit of an outlier, but he has at least worked out better for us than trying to solve that particular issue with Diabate or Ghezzal.

Not for one minute saying those three have worked out anywhere near as well as equivalent signings, but they're not a complete departure from our previous recruitment approach.

Ward was signed in 17/18 our most scattergun window since we've been up (and had barely played in the PL iirc). We massively overpaid but he's a decent keeper. Vestergaard we'd been tracking for a while and pulled the trigger on a 29 year old for £15m, there's very little resale value there. We were pushed into signing a CB by Fofana's injury which was unfortunate but opting for a 'PL proven player' ensured we got rinsed.

 

Bertrand was horrific statistically and I thought he was a bad signing in the summer, Albrighton was 24 when he joined (!!), low-ish wage given our position at the time snd he had something to prove. Bertrand's arrived after allegedly being wiped out by covid too.

 

Perez had over performed his xG significantly the season before he joined (12 goals vs 7.7 xG) and the most assists he's ever had in a PL season is 5. We've opted for expensive "PL proven" players for the first time and we've shortchanged ourselves. Evans and Huth have been fantastic signings because they addressed a clear need and crucially were very cheap so if it didn't work out - it wouldn't have been a huge problem.

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, Ricey said:

You could easily put Perez in bad because he cost £30M and I still think it’s too early to judge Daka as excellent, although the signs are good.

 

The reality is it’s always very hard to judge head of recruitments. Rodgers has said himself that “recruitment starts and finishes with me”, so how many of those signings were Rodger’s call? Also how many were previously scouted under the previous regime? We tend to chase players for quite awhile.

I always think you have to see recruitment as a collective responsible for the club rather than individuals. 

 

It is impossible to say who's signing is who's and who deserves the credit or the blame.

 

I agree we Perez the price does affect how we view a transfer. 

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, moore_94 said:

His record for signings who at the time were expected to be squad players initially is good

 

His record for signings who at the time were expected to go into the first team is terrible

 

Perez, Under, Lookman, Vestergaard possibly even Bertrand at the time of being signed were arguably expected to go straight into the starting 11 upon joining, that is shocking - Castagne is the only “expected starting 11” signing he has made that has been good

 

That is what makes him underwhelming for him

 

Overall it started well but seems to have gotten worse in the quality of players we have been signing

Under, Lookman were cheap last minute squad fillers, not sure they was any expectation they would be regular starting 11 players. 

[Foxxed]

Interesting to know which players Lee signed because the analysts found them and they were no brainier signings, and which he had a direct hand in finding.
 

I have the unfounded idea Fofana was a more Rodgers/Conferton but JJ and Daka was more the scouting department. I’m blaming Vester and Bertrand on Rodgers/Congerton.

[Supergray22]

56 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

Are they a clear departure from how we worked before?

Vestegaard for £15m from Southampton as a back-up CB feels theoretically similar to signing Danny Ward from Liverpool as a back-up keeper for roughly the same amount to me. I know there's an age difference, but I don't think we expected to recoup that for Ward. I think they were seen as solid backup who would last us for at least a few seasons in the relatively unlikely situation that we'd need to use them.

Bertrand on a free feels very similar to Albrighton on a free or Simpson for a couple of million to me. Experienced Premier League back-up, relatively inexpensive.

Perez for £30m is maybe a bit of an outlier, but he has at least worked out better for us than trying to solve that particular issue with Diabate or Ghezzal.

Not for one minute saying those three have worked out anywhere near as well as equivalent signings, but they're not a complete departure from our previous recruitment approach.

Collectively the club has to take responsibility for signings from the top and retrospective analysis is only useful to the extent that we learn from it and improve. 
 

I wouldnt compare Albrighton with Bertrand other than that they were both on a free transfer. Albrighton was younger with his best years ahead. I was pleased at the time and he has exceeded expectations in every way. As you say Bertrand on a free suited a purpose albeit short term. 

[coolhandfox]

I love how people try and assign signings to different people in the club or past employees to suit a narrative.
 

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

no one wants someone at the club with the last name Congerton..

Did Bridgerton really scar you that badly?

[volpeazzurro]

5 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

If you take out the frees Under, Lookman, Bennett, Bertrand which is bargain bin shopping and Tielemans because he was already in the building.  

 

It leaves this:

 

Excellent business Fofana, Justin, Daka

Good: Castagne

OK: Praet, Perez, Soumare

BAD: Vestergaard,

 

You could stick Perez in bad for value for money.

 

Good out weighs the bad for me.

 

Let be honest people made the mind up about the guy before he arrived. 

 

Think we'd been tracking JJ before Congerton came on the scene. 

[volpeazzurro]

That's the last good signings Atalanta will possibly make, going well in Serie A as well! Hopefully he'll recommend Vestergaard, Bertrand and Perez to them?

[coolhandfox]

7 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Think we'd been tracking JJ before Congerton came on the scene. 

Impossible to know one why or another.

 

I always see transfers as a collective effort

[Ric Flair]

11 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Think we'd been tracking JJ before Congerton came on the scene. 

We had been linked, but so had Celtic quite heavily when Rodgers and Congerton were there, likewise Castagne.

[HybridFox]

5 hours ago, Spudulike said:

What's Steve Walsh doing these days? That said, I think his rep got destroyed at Everton. 

In the MLS I think.

 

Got a lot of flak at Everton but this extract made me laugh and sums that club up in a nutshell:

 

"In addition to the expensive players that Everton signed, Walsh also recommended Hull duo Andy Robertson and Harry Maguire for a combined £20 million and teenage Norwegian striker Erling Haaland for €4 million; Everton rejected the trio, whose values soared years later."

Edited 20 December 2021 by TK95

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

2 minutes ago, TK95 said:

In the MLS I think.

 

Got a lot of flak at Everton but this extract made me laugh and sums that club up in a nutshell:

 

"In addition to the expensive players that Everton signed, Walsh also recommended Hull duo Andy Robertson and Harry Maguire for a combined £20 million and teenage Norwegian striker Erling Haaland for €4 million; Everton rejected the trio, whose values soared years later."

That's nonsense really as Walsh was obsessed with Keane and ended up signing him for a fortune instead of maguire.

[Sankey93]

Luis Campos IN.