PSV UPDATE

[davieG]

10 minutes ago, smudger63 said:

The singing section in the kop really needed to be in place when the stadium opened, although I suppose there wasn't really such a thing in name at the time I suppose.  Certainly growing up with filbert Street  we all knew where to go for the singing, but of course it was easier then, because it was standing, and no restrictions on where you go. To be honest when the new stadium opened  I assumed that sk 3 and sk2 would be where the singers would go, but I think the cheaper prices of that part of the ground attracted your everyday fan and so alot of the more vocal fans were split up. It was a shame 

The problem occurred because the club encouraged people to sit in the same 'stand' they were in at Filbert St so the new South Stand as it was then named (Kop now) ended up with people from the Kop and the Double Decker (DD). Double Decker people are not going to be interested in standing or getting too involved in singing and they're still in the KP Kop..

[Foxes96]

Surely the stadium expansion is the perfect opportunity to establish a permanent singing section. I thought the second tier on the east stand was due to have cheaper prices due to distance from the pitch I imagine. Therefore I wonder if STH’s currently sat where the proposed singing section would be, would be more willing to move to the east stand if its not such a price hike. 
 

Also surely it’s the perfect opportunity to also get safe standing in that end so we could have an actual “Kop” end. Would do wonders for the atmosphere. And in terms of actual benefit for LCFC would surely help the team - leading to greater success and therefore more revenue, and creating a better atmosphere would surely also help the club market itself.

[Stevosevic]

The funny thing is, these clubs such as Man United and Liverpool that people like to call plastic and tourist clubs.... If they introduced goal music it would be gone by the next game. There would be so much uproar by the fans. 

 

Turns out we're the plastic club afterall. 

[ian__marshall]

20 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

I can't think of a single change that has come from a FCC in the last 5 years. It's just used to defend decisions that have already been made, rather than listening to alternatives. We also had the "Matchday Atmosphere Consultation Group" which was meant to be set up a year ago with the supporter groups and a mix of fans from across the stadium. That was April last year and there's not been a single meeting off the back of it. 

 

UFS put a 20 page proposal to the club for this kind of thing about 3 years ago. Absolutely watertight (If I do say so myself), printed out physically and copies sent to every senior member of the management structure beneath Top. Was it worth the time put into it? I don't know. 

I take your point Sol, but not to be critical more an observation from what you have written, a lot of what you say is very much directed at shortcomings on the part of the club. To offer balance I can't see anything that suggests said representatives or UFS could have approached this differently. Admittedly I have no idea what was said or wasn't said, but talking from personal experience of many years of negotiating, where things often fall down is when the party deemed to be the lesser of the two in the power dynamic truly hasn't fully understood the others needs/objectives. 

 

You mentioned the 20 page proposal. Was this just something that UFS put together as an outline of the groups vision/idea, or was this formed collaboratively with the club fully aligning it to their goals? Again, I'm not trying to be critical but I just get the impression at times that we as a fan base need to try and understand better what the rationale is for their decision making and try to align our expectations alongside those of the club. 

 

Going back to your initial point. From what I can see FCC is truly the only channel that the fans have to engage with the leadership at the club hence I think this is really the only viable channel. Protests or emails simply won't get the points across to those that make the decisions unfortunately. 

Edited 23 March 2022 by ian__marshall

[smudger63]

17 minutes ago, davieG said:

The problem occurred because the club encouraged people to sit in the same 'stand' they were in at Filbert St so the new South Stand as it was then named (Kop now) ended up with people from the Kop and the Double Decker (DD). Double Decker people are not going to be interested in standing or getting too involved in singing and they're still in the KP Kop..

Very true. 

[smudger63]

16 minutes ago, Foxes96 said:

Surely the stadium expansion is the perfect opportunity to establish a permanent singing section. I thought the second tier on the east stand was due to have cheaper prices due to distance from the pitch I imagine. Therefore I wonder if STH’s currently sat where the proposed singing section would be, would be more willing to move to the east stand if its not such a price hike. 
 

Also surely it’s the perfect opportunity to also get safe standing in that end so we could have an actual “Kop” end. Would do wonders for the atmosphere. And in terms of actual benefit for LCFC would surely help the team - leading to greater success and therefore more revenue, and creating a better atmosphere would surely also help the club market itself.

I think the seats in the second tier of the east stand are going to be significantly more. Or at least that was my understanding anyway 

[ian__marshall]

34 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I am aware of at least one person who fits exactly what you described at the FCC forum and makes themselves heard in that manner. 

That's good to know Cardiff, and a good starting point particularly if the club do respect said individual. You obviously seem to have some kind of connection to said person, maybe as a suggestion it would be a good idea if they were more visible to the fans and willing to work with like minded people via a sub group to develop impactful ideas that they effectively could act as the spokesperson for. As a said just a suggestion, but seems a shame that we have someone of this standard representing the fans yet very few know who they are. 

Edited 23 March 2022 by ian__marshall

[Ashdav86]

Personally don't mind the goal music (as I like the song) and the clappers (cheaper than collecting programs) those aren't deal breakers for me renewing season ticket

 

Am astonished that they didn't pick up on how much better the atmosphere was for the rennes game

 

If people don't like it don't sit next to it

[Stuntman_Mike]

It's completely beyond me that the club wouldn't actively encourage another end similar to Rennes seeing as it quite clearly made a difference on the night.

 

We should be looking to use a section as a competitive gain against tough opponents. 

 

This was the perfect opportunity to keep getting a feel for these ends, but the club just seem intent on making everything hard work when they don't need to.

 

 

Edited 23 March 2022 by Stuntman_Mike

[rico]

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but would presenting some kind of petition to the club work if it were to gain a good amount of interest?

 

 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

4 hours ago, rico said:

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but would presenting some kind of petition to the club work if it were to gain a good amount of interest?

 

 

I'm all for a singing section and think it's a good idea.

 

I also think a petition is a great idea as it will demonstrate weight of opinion as currently it feels like a noisy minority.

 

Can I also suggest that within this petition you don't do anything petty like refer to the stadium as Filbert Way or stag off the club staff and / or owners.

Edited 23 March 2022 by Chocolate Teapot

[Ric Flair]

Those clappers fit lovely up car exhaust pipes, I'm surprised the club haven't banned them. 

[Stuntman_Mike]

42 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

The funny thing is, these clubs such as Man United and Liverpool that people like to call plastic and tourist clubs.... If they introduced goal music it would be gone by the next game. There would be so much uproar by the fans. 

 

Turns out we're the plastic club afterall. 

This cut deep 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

30 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

I take your point Sol, but not to be critical more an observation from what you have written, a lot of what you say is very much directed at shortcomings on the part of the club. To offer balance I can't see anything that suggests said representatives or UFS could have approached this differently. Admittedly I have no idea what was said or wasn't said, but talking from personal experience of many years of negotiating, where things often fall down is when the party deemed to be the lesser of the two in the power dynamic truly hasn't fully understood the others needs/objectives. 

 

You mentioned the 20 page proposal. Was this just something that UFS put together as an outline of the groups vision/idea, or was this formed collaboratively with the club fully aligning it to their goals? Again, I'm not trying to be critical but I just get the impression at times that we as a fan base need to try and understand better what the rationale is for their decision making and try to align our expectations alongside those of the club. 

 

Going back to your initial point. From what I can see FCC is truly the only channel that the fans have to engage with the leadership at the club hence I think this is really the only viable channel. Protests or emails simply won't get the points across to those that make the decisions unfortunately. 

Totally get that we can't just bowl in there and make demands with no justification. That's where the Fosse Boys fell down but plenty of lessons have been learnt. 

 

The booklet was proactive from UFS to outline the vision for a standing/singing area yes, it wasn't something ask for by the club. But it wasn't just "we want to stand up give us 5000 spots now", there were countless other benefits in there for the club. 

 

But unfortunately what we're pushing for is so massively against the grain of what the club want, that it's almost impossible to find middle ground. To use your selling analogy it's like trying to sell someone a sportscar when they want an articulated lorry. 

[davieG]

42 minutes ago, smudger63 said:

I think the seats in the second tier of the east stand are going to be significantly more. Or at least that was my understanding anyway 

I reckon they'll all be more and you could argue that the predicted price rise for this season is the start of that process so the jump wont seem as big when the expansion is complete.

[K1FOX]

Look forward to hearing the clubs communication on why they haven't followed the same process as the Rennes game for the section. There was plenty of empty seats that day and this is a brand new competition that we had no idea we were in so nobody can claim to have 'reserved seats'. Big big backwards step from the club and any enthusiasm for the game is gone. Really going to ram home the home advantage in the tie by banging on 25000 clappers and jumping up and down to the goal music aren't we.

[bmt]

I work in sustainability and the clappers are not only bad for enjoyment, but its a ridiculously outdated idea to provide 30,000 pieces of gloss cardboard every week, especially when less than half of the crowd actually use them. If they want to provide clappers it should be on an opt-in basis in my opinion, especially considering how many ST holders there are. People could opt in at the start of the season and they could provide the correct amount to collect on the way up to the stands so they don't have to work out what seat each clapper is for.

[K1FOX]

4 minutes ago, bmt said:

I work in sustainability and the clappers are not only bad for enjoyment, but its a ridiculously outdated idea to provide 30,000 pieces of gloss cardboard every week, especially when less than half of the crowd actually use them. If they want to provide clappers it should be on an opt-in basis in my opinion, especially considering how many ST holders there are. People could opt in at the start of the season and they could provide the correct amount to collect on the way up to the stands so they don't have to work out what seat each clapper is for.

Reckon the only way to get rid is the sustainability and environmental standpoint. Anything else and they will not care but paint the club to be doing something which tarnishes the 'perfect' image and there's the chance.

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

It's completely beyond me that the club wouldn't actively encourage another end similar to Rennes seeing as it quite clearly made a difference on the night.

 

We should be looking to use a section as a competitive gain against tough opponents. 

 

This was the perfect opportunity to keep getting a feel for these ends, but the club just seem intent on making everything hard work when they don't need to.

 

 

Because they hate the very concept of it. 
 

They want you to turn up, sit down, clap with the clappers, dance along to the goal music and fvck off home, preferably with a trip to the club shop thrown in. If it’s not controlled and sanitised then they don’t want to know, and I assume they hate the fact the atmosphere gets plaudits around the singing section. It’s not the easy-handled demographic that’ll splurge out on tat. 
 

It wouldn’t surprise me if this hasn’t been intentionally sabotaged, allow ST holders to book first, then let the singing section lot in, wait for the ST to complain they couldn’t sit and watch the match nicely and then use that as the singing section simply isn’t working.

[lcfc278]

9 minutes ago, bmt said:

I work in sustainability and the clappers are not only bad for enjoyment, but its a ridiculously outdated idea to provide 30,000 pieces of gloss cardboard every week, especially when less than half of the crowd actually use them. If they want to provide clappers it should be on an opt-in basis in my opinion, especially considering how many ST holders there are. People could opt in at the start of the season and they could provide the correct amount to collect on the way up to the stands so they don't have to work out what seat each clapper is for.

After games I walk down Raw Dykes Road past the Holiday Inn towards Walnut Street and theres always loads of the clappers dumped by the side of the road, tons of them, not to mention those you walk over on the floor on the way out of the stand. Such a waste.

 

I always take mine as my son loves them when I get home but they're just not sustainable.

 

I genuinely would be surprised if we still have them next season, stadium-wide. I think they will keep them for the family stand areas but I will be surprised if they're not phased out at the beginning of next season everywhere else.

 

I think some fans will not know what to do with their hands when they are gone though.

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

The problem occurred because the club encouraged people to sit in the same 'stand' they were in at Filbert St so the new South Stand as it was then named (Kop now) ended up with people from the Kop and the Double Decker (DD). Double Decker people are not going to be interested in standing or getting too involved in singing and they're still in the KP Kop..

I remember the club advertising the South Stand (or Fosse Stand as it was named) as the place to go for the noise and atmosphere. Unfortunately there wasn't a natural home for the Double-Deckers (I was one having migrated upstairs from the Kop as my dad was getting on a bit). I started the first few seasons in the family P blocks as my lad was under 16 but it was inevitable the old Kop Crazy Corner were going to frequent the nearest point to away fans - L1. The new Kop never had a chance to establish itself and we are now seeing the consequences. Shame. 

[Stadt]

The club have actually made strides with the sections, it was an absolute slog trying to get any organised prior to this season and the fact they refer to it as an ongoing trial is encouraging.

 

Every section there's ever been has been met with near-universal acclaim by the fans, players, management, social media & broadcasters. the whole club would benefit from a permanent section but the club are so reticent to move anybody out. The trade off is move a few hundred STHs for a demonstrably better atmosphere, yet it's seemingly sacrilegious to shift people 10 rows down or 35 seats left or right in our stadium with virtually identical views. 

 

Currently, it's piss off the thousands of fans that want a better atmosphere to avoid the relatively trivial amount of heat from displaced STHs.

 

I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that the club wants a shit, family friendly carnival atmosphere - it's more that there's lots of corporate staff with poor ideas, little understanding of fan culture and an unwillingness to listen about a lot of things. I doubt clappers and goal music are decided by the same people for instance. The worst thing is how they're not proactive about wanting to improve things and the FCC is useless.

 

[CosbehFox]

6 minutes ago, Stadt said:

 

I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that the club wants a shit, family friendly carnival atmosphere - it's more that there's lots of corporate staff with poor ideas, little understanding of fan culture and an unwillingness to listen about a lot of things. I doubt clappers and goal music are decided by the same people for instance. The worst thing is how they're not proactive about wanting to improve things and the FCC is useless.

 

Bang on

 

At some clubs it's clicking on that the very attraction to any 'demographic' is the atmosphere and the association that has with local pride. We are stuck on outdated ideas. There's been a little bit of progress on the social media side recently. 

[coolhandfox]

28 minutes ago, Stadt said:

The club have actually made strides with the sections, it was an absolute slog trying to get any organised prior to this season and the fact they refer to it as an ongoing trial is encouraging.

 

Every section there's ever been has been met with near-universal acclaim by the fans, players, management, social media & broadcasters. the whole club would benefit from a permanent section but the club are so reticent to move anybody out. The trade off is move a few hundred STHs for a demonstrably better atmosphere, yet it's seemingly sacrilegious to shift people 10 rows down or 35 seats left or right in our stadium with virtually identical views. 

 

Currently, it's piss off the thousands of fans that want a better atmosphere to avoid the relatively trivial amount of heat from displaced STHs.

 

I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that the club wants a shit, family friendly carnival atmosphere - it's more that there's lots of corporate staff with poor ideas, little understanding of fan culture and an unwillingness to listen about a lot of things. I doubt clappers and goal music are decided by the same people for instance. The worst thing is how they're not proactive about wanting to improve things and the FCC is useless.

 

100% this 

[mazarron fox]

According to my quick research on the net all 20 clubs have goal music and 3 clubs have the same this season so either you can’t hear it or ours is super loud. On a second note our very own post horn gallop rolled in at 17th worst in the run out stakes

Thoughts?