Tactics Under Maresca

[st albans fox]

if teams feel they have the personnel to play that way then despite the result, i expect opposition coaches to look at what blackburn did yesterday as a blue print to play against us from now on.   its up to enzo to have a plan for it. i think switches in play out wide with long balls are a possible the answer to make the pitch big and drag them out of their narrow shape. 

[An Away Move]

3 hours ago, MGLCFC said:

I wonder if the talk of getting out of 2nd gear is going to take longer than anticipated. Undoubtedly there has been a huge improvement since game 1, but I sometimes think that Maresca can only take this system so far with the quality of players at his disposal at present. To take it to 3rd or even 4th gear may have to wait until we can purchase more technically gifted players. I'm not saying that our squad is poor, in fact by Championship standards it's outstanding and it is far superior than most other Championship squads, but there is still a gulf in quality compared to what will be required at the next level. I'm really keen to see how far Maresca can take the team as it evolves and develops.

I’m hoping the current members of the squad will just become better players under Maresca like the Leeds players that went up under Bielsa. Add some more quality where needed and we’ll be in a good position should we be promoted. That said, I am enjoying us being in The Championship. Feels like a refreshing change from the Premier League, which I have been falling out of love with. 

[StriderHiryu]

Q: Why have we "not got out of second gear?"

A: Because it takes time. Lots of it. LOTS!

 

Coaching a new style of play is extremely difficult. Doing it with tons of new signings even harder. Below is a comparison of Brendan Rodgers versus Jurgen Klopp after 85 games. That's almost 2 whole seasons. It looked like his style wouldn't work in the league, but slowly but surely it clicked.

 

People are massively underestimating the work Enzo Maresca has done. We got relegated last season because we conceded 68 goals. This season, we have conceded just 6. Look at how many goals Southampton and Leeds have conceded by comparison. He's fixed one huge problem with the team. We are even scoring a decent amount of goals too. The complete team performance will come, but it will take time. Honestly, we might not see it at all this season based on what we saw with Klopp, so that's a warning for you.

 

Personally, as someone who has spent hours coaching real players at all different levels, I find the level of play from our team in such a short space of time breathtaking. Southampton are a great example of where if players aren't standing in the right positions at the right times, it goes wrong spectacularly. And if the improvements in Vestergaard, Ndidi and McAteer don't impress you, then nothing will!

 

 

 

Edited 2 October 2023 by StriderHiryu

[Les-TA-Jon]

5 hours ago, Larry_LCFC said:

There's not many things you can fault him on. Not afraid to make early subs when it's not working. He has got to get a grip of this suicidal passing out from the GK. We've got away with it by the skin of teeth loads already this season and conceded a couple. 

Struggling to remember chances that have come from it, let alone goals - other than Blackburn's? 

[Lambert09]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

Q: Why have we "not got out of second gear?"

A: Because it takes time. Lots of it. LOTS!

 

Coaching a new style of play is extremely difficult. Doing it with tons of new signings even harder. Below is a comparison of Brendan Rodgers versus Jurgen Klopp after 85 games. That's almost 2 whole seasons. It looked like his style wouldn't work in the league, but slowly but surely it clicked.

 

People are massively underestimating the work Enzo Maresca has done. We got relegated last season because we conceded 68 goals. This season we have conceded just 6. Look at how many goals Southampton and Leeds have conceded by comparison. He's fixed one huge problem with the team. We are even scoring a decent amount of goals too. The complete performance and team will come, but it will take time. Honestly, we might not see it at all this season based on what we saw with Klopp, so that's a warning for you.

 

Personally, as someone who has spent hours coaching real players at all different levels, I find the level of play from our team in such a short space of time breathtaking. If the improvements in Vestergaard, Ndidi and McAteer don't impress you, then nothing will!

 

Not just those 3, Faes is looking so much more composed. KDH shows a true understanding of his role. Wanya clearly went on leaps and bounds and its a real shame that this contract situation is damaging his opportunity. But the biggest one and it might sound daft... but Vardy is back.  To motivate a 37 year old to get back to his best is something truly amazing from a coach. This isnt just a case of weaker opposition. Most of the bottom half of the prem are equally as bad as what weve faced... this is someone who understands the role and has been able to roll back the years. 

 

He will never be peak again at this age, but southampton and yesterday show that he is back doing what he loves. 

[StriderHiryu]

5 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Struggling to remember chances that have come from it, let alone goals - other than Blackburn's? 

That's the first one so far, which in my opinion is extremely impressive given that statistically any team that plays out from the back will concede some goals like that. It happens to Man City, Barcelona, Liverpool, etc.

 

My prediction was that we would concede 10 goals this season due to passing out from the back. So right now the "SUICIDAL PASS COUNTER TM" is at 1/10.

 

This will be a common complaint, maybe more next season than this. This season, we will get away with it. As the Liverpool game showed, mistakes get punished brutally in the top flight, so I could see this being more contentious then. But in the meanwhile, there are many examples of us creating chances because we played out from the back. Here's a clip from the very first time we saw "The Enzo Way":

 

 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

Exactly! I'm not sure the claim stands up to any sort of actual data/analysis. Think it says more about the nervous disposition of fans in the stands than our actual play. 

 

And it's well worth the tradeoff, given we've become a great 'back to front' team, where a lot of our good moves/attacks start from Hermansen or Vestergaard

[fuchsntf]

6 hours ago, Babylon said:

You can't argue with the results and Maresca has done a grand job. But, I've still not been that overly impressed with how we've played (granted I've not seen all the games), a bit like under Rodgers, where by we were winning many games thanks to the quality of the players. We've putting together just enough to win the games, and you see the comments about us not being out of 2nd or 3rd gear from our own fans and opposition fans. It certainly feels like there is far more we're capable of, but I'm just not sure why we don't see it yet. 

 

Is it just a case of us still learning the system, is it because that's just our style, do we even have it in us to get into a perceived higher gear... because often comments like that suggest we're just doing what we need to do and not pushing ourselves that extra yard, which I'm not sure is the case. 

Like you I wonder about higher gear...wouldn't the ,L'pool game have pushed/moved us up & down those gears gears...NOT to a win,but a more competitive performance..??

 

[Aleksz]

6 hours ago, Babylon said:

You can't argue with the results and Maresca has done a grand job. But, I've still not been that overly impressed with how we've played (granted I've not seen all the games), a bit like under Rodgers, where by we were winning many games thanks to the quality of the players. We've putting together just enough to win the games, and you see the comments about us not being out of 2nd or 3rd gear from our own fans and opposition fans. It certainly feels like there is far more we're capable of, but I'm just not sure why we don't see it yet. 

 

Is it just a case of us still learning the system, is it because that's just our style, do we even have it in us to get into a perceived higher gear... because often comments like that suggest we're just doing what we need to do and not pushing ourselves that extra yard, which I'm not sure is the case. 

It’s learning the new system because that doesn’t happen over night. Look at the problems Southampton are having learning this kind of football despite the quality in their ranks.

 

Were nowhere near the finished article in this style and system yet. It’s testament to Enzo that we’re as good as we are compared to how other teams have struggled to adapt to this kind of football previously.

[Rhysm]

3 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Struggling to remember chances that have come from it, let alone goals - other than Blackburn's? 

Sure there was one v Bristol city or Norwich where they passed it straight to their striker who hit the post. 

 

For the sake of balance although I would carry on fwiw 

[Ashley]

11 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

I could, but I'm sure you could also find the passing maps

Best place to find these please 🙂

[ARM1968]

I’m going to have to say, that on the evidence so far, I’m happy with the Enzoball we are playing. Gradual improvements game by game. Rode our luck early on. I’ll take it. 

[StriderHiryu]

12 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Best place to find these please 🙂

 

This twitter account auto produces them, but it hasn't done the Leicester game so I don't know. Maybe contribute to the thread by finding a good source and posting it here?

[Claridge]

We are winning games because our players are better and the subs are miles above most teams. Some of the football has been great, some bloody awful though.can see us getting a few really big wins as we improve in the championship. Play against a decent prem team in the fa cup and I think we would ship a few goals

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, Rhysm said:

Sure there was one v Bristol city or Norwich where they passed it straight to their striker who hit the post. 

 

For the sake of balance although I would carry on fwiw 

Norwich, Hermansen passed it straight out to McLean for them who hit the bar.

 

Tend to agree with carry on though, just be less predictable in terms of passing out to the same person as we were in the second half yesterday and mix it up with clipping it out to the wings as well.

[sbfox]

This thread makes me despair sometimes. Bossing the league, so far, conceding only a handful of goals and all we can talk about is not getting out of second gear, or needing a different plan? 

 

I'll take top of the league and second gear thanks. 

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, Claridge said:

We are winning games because our players are better and the subs are miles above most teams. Some of the football has been great, some bloody awful though.can see us getting a few really big wins as we improve in the championship. Play against a decent prem team in the fa cup and I think we would ship a few goals

That’s unfair. 
 

Yes our squad is head and shoulders above the rest, but so were Newcastles, and West Ham’s when they came down, and probably Fulham’s more recently, and we’ve started better than most of those teams did. 
 

But, what is impressive is that Enzo has immediately got the entire club singing from his hymn sheet. It’s a million miles away from where it needs to be, and we’re still winning games of football, and scoring plenty of goals. 
 

Enzo’s vision is exactly what this club needed, if this season so far is anything to go by, imagine what kind of team he could put together with a bigger budget and better market to work in. 

Edited 2 October 2023 by Pliskin

[SecretPro]

3 hours ago, Ashley said:

Best place to find these please 🙂

You ain't going to find Passing Maps for free I'm afraid! 

[Fightforever]

Maresca’s system relies on players that have a good first touch and have a good weak foot because you need to be able to receive the ball in a tight space, not get dispossessed then pass it to someone else nearby. 

 

You don’t need to be able to split a defence open like Tielemans at all. You just need to be able to pass it quickly and get it out to one of the wingers who will cause most of the trouble in this system they have free licence to just cause havoc and they don’t really have to be part of the build up.  

We currently have too many players who are decent players all things considered but are either one footed or have a bad first touch. Iheanacho who has been one of the most underperforming players this year has both of these as his main weaknesses. Likewise with KDH and Daka and all the other players that haven’t really featured. 
 

Meanwhile players who looked terrible under Rodgers like Vestergaard and Ndidi who have a decent weak foot and a decent first touch are excelling in this system. 

I think I know why we look like why are in second gear.

 

If you think about it our defensive midfielder (Winks) and inverted fullback (Ricardo) dominate possession like they are supposed to and our defence has only conceded 6 this year (we have been a bit lucky here though tbh).
 

The reason why we have looked as if we are in second gear is because our attacking mids and strikers just aren’t that great at controlling the ball and quickly passing it so as a result they have to take an extra few touches and slow the game down so that they don’t get dispossessed. As a result the speed of our game slows down and it looks like we are in second gear.

[KFS]

6 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Maresca’s system relies on players that have a good first touch and have a good weak foot because you need to be able to receive the ball in a tight space, not get dispossessed then pass it to someone else nearby. 

 

You don’t need to be able to split a defence open like Tielemans at all. You just need to be able to pass it quickly and get it out to one of the wingers who will cause most of the trouble in this system they have free licence to just cause havoc and they don’t really have to be part of the build up.  

We currently have too many players who are decent players all things considered but are either one footed or have a bad first touch. Iheanacho who has been one of the most underperforming players this year has both of these as his main weaknesses. Likewise with KDH and Daka and all the other players that haven’t really featured. 
 

Meanwhile players who looked terrible under Rodgers like Vestergaard and Ndidi who have a decent weak foot and a decent first touch are excelling in this system. 

I think I know why we look like why are in second gear.

 

If you think about it our defensive midfielder (Winks) and inverted fullback (Ricardo) dominate possession like they are supposed to and our defence has only conceded 6 this year (we have been a bit lucky here though tbh).
 

The reason why we have looked as if we are in second gear is because our attacking mids and strikers just aren’t that great at controlling the ball and quickly passing it so as a result they have to take an extra few touches and slow the game down so that they don’t get dispossessed. As a result the speed of our game slows down and it looks like we are in second gear.

I’m hoping for Villa in the FA cup so we can make Tielemans run around for 90 minutes  

[Tom12345]

https://foxesofleicester.com/2023/09/07/leicester-city-negotiate-deal-asap/

[Pliskin]

6 hours ago, Fightforever said:

Maresca’s system relies on players that have a good first touch and have a good weak foot because you need to be able to receive the ball in a tight space, not get dispossessed then pass it to someone else nearby. 

 

You don’t need to be able to split a defence open like Tielemans at all. You just need to be able to pass it quickly and get it out to one of the wingers who will cause most of the trouble in this system they have free licence to just cause havoc and they don’t really have to be part of the build up.  

We currently have too many players who are decent players all things considered but are either one footed or have a bad first touch. Iheanacho who has been one of the most underperforming players this year has both of these as his main weaknesses. Likewise with KDH and Daka and all the other players that haven’t really featured. 
 

Meanwhile players who looked terrible under Rodgers like Vestergaard and Ndidi who have a decent weak foot and a decent first touch are excelling in this system. 

I think I know why we look like why are in second gear.

 

If you think about it our defensive midfielder (Winks) and inverted fullback (Ricardo) dominate possession like they are supposed to and our defence has only conceded 6 this year (we have been a bit lucky here though tbh).
 

The reason why we have looked as if we are in second gear is because our attacking mids and strikers just aren’t that great at controlling the ball and quickly passing it so as a result they have to take an extra few touches and slow the game down so that they don’t get dispossessed. As a result the speed of our game slows down and it looks like we are in second gear.

Tomorrow is our 10th league match of the season. 
 

That’s why it looks like we’ve not got out of second gear. 
 

There’s no point over analysing anything, Maresca is picking a team that’s capable of winning games whilst developing a style of football. 
 

To be honest, at the moment I couldn’t care less how we play, the score is more important. 

[Ashley]

8 hours ago, SecretPro said:

You ain't going to find Passing Maps for free I'm afraid! 

I'll happily contribute to a subscription/get it myself for posting in here if someone points me in the right direction. Looked on Google and I can't see anything that stands out.

[SecretPro]

7 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I'll happily contribute to a subscription/get it myself for posting in here if someone points me in the right direction. Looked on Google and I can't see anything that stands out.

Yeah I think the pros keep them to themselves. You could sign up to one of the agencies that provide such things to clubs but your looking at hundreds! (If not more).

Edited 3 October 2023 by SecretPro

[Bourbon Fox]

15 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Like you I wonder about higher gear...wouldn't the ,L'pool game have pushed/moved us up & down those gears gears...NOT to a win,but a more competitive performance..??

 

Maybe, if Enzo hadn't chosen to make a high number of changes.

 

He treated the Liverpool game as a chance to give players who have featured less frequently some game time, ready to be called upon in the league.