hackneyfox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 12 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said: Theres a reason he hasnt played that many games.. If Daniel Amartey starts over you then theres something seriously wrong. A defender that cant defend or win a header even though hes 6ft 7. Denmark are hardly blessed with CBs for him to be an international so its not exactly a display of his quality There was a reason why Soyuncu hardly played as well. Not sure that it was because he wasn’t good enough, perhaps the same applies with Vestergard? You claimed that using eyes was why people didn’t like him yet failed to back that up when I pointed out that he’s hardly been played. He’s not great but since coming back into the team he’s looked better than I expected and has made some good passes that have taken out a number of the opposition in one go. Just asking for a bit of balance when discussing our players and throwing around ‘hate’ is as far from balanced as you can get. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bordersfox Posted 25 August 2023 Popular Post Share Posted 25 August 2023 3 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: Vestergaard over Souttar will never make sense, on any level. Properly baffling decision. I'm afraid I'll have to prefer Maresca's opinion to yours on that one. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey123 Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 46 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said: Feel sorry for him, a bloke whos just bought a house in the area and wants to kick on at his new club but being let go because our manager prefers a 31 year old donkey with a year left on his contract. Souttar would of been a very good player at this level, massive shame Gutted about his house, how on earth will his minimum £30k a week cover it??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackneyfox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 21 minutes ago, Weller Wing said: I don't yet see what Vestergaard has done that Souttar couldn't do. He does little 5 yard passes that anyone could do. He hasn't played that well and any decent striker would have had him for breakfast in the games so far. I do trust Maresca though ,so I'll have to support his decision Well I’ve seen a couple of passes that have moved the ball forward some distance and taken out of the game a number of opposition players. Not sure how you missed them. 14 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said: Think its going to take a striker to run rings around him and put 2/3 past for Enzo to realise the error of his ways So manager fails to drop a player you don’t like and he’s the one making the error? Couldn’t be that you’re in the wrong and the manger actually knows best as to which player suits his style of play? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelmofox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 3 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said: Think its going to take a striker to run rings around him and put 2/3 past for Enzo to realise the error of his ways Enzo we be far more resolute than that in the Championship. As long as Vesty allows him to build the system / framework for him, he will bank the the shortcomings won't be exposed often enough to cause major issues. I do think at some point we are going to get an Everton/Brighton style drubbing when a team goes direct at us and are clinical, but im sure Enzo won't panic. Also, Vesty will likely be backup for Coady and i think we will see rotation between Coady/Fees/Vesty. No chance would Vesty be playing this system in the Premier League. We would have been absolutely murdered by now. I am sure Enzo is more than aware of that and Vesty is useful for the time being and a change would be needed if we get promoted. As for Harry, I do feel for him. I can only presume that Enzo has determined he can't play this system for whatever reason. I trust him on that, as much as it pains me as I like Harry. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pliskin Posted 25 August 2023 Popular Post Share Posted 25 August 2023 There’s obviously a reason as to why he’s been picking Vesty over Souttar. I don’t agree with it myself, but I can understand it from a footballing point of view, because no matter how much we don’t like Vesty, he does possess the ability to break through the press with a pass, which Souttar does not. If you take the goalkeeping situation as an example, Iversen would be good enough to play at this level and be one of the better goalkeepers, but because he can’t play the game with the ball at his feet, he isn’t playing. Vesty obviously has an area of his game that Enzo prefers over Souttar. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALC Fox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 7 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: Vestergaard over Souttar will never make sense, on any level. Properly baffling decision. There probably isn't a great deal between them ability-wise and Souttar is the more valuable asset, so in theory would give us more money in the coffers to spend on other players. Vestergaard can do a passable job at this level so if we can't get rid of both, then sell the more valuable player and use the funds strengthen. On ability alone, I would say Souttar is slightly better on the visible evidence. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viva Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 I’ve got no problem at all in letting players go that the manager doesn’t like. Much rather he did that and bring his own players in, rather than stick with someone not suited to the way he wants to play. I certainly haven’t built a great attachment to a player that has only played a handful of games for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_lcfc Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 12 minutes ago, Bordersfox said: I'm afraid I'll have to prefer Maresca's opinion to yours on that one. You are allowed to question a manager’s decision you know. Vestergaard is awful, regardless of whether or not your new messiah plays him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelmofox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 5 minutes ago, Pliskin said: There’s obviously a reason as to why he’s been picking Vesty over Souttar. I don’t agree with it myself, but I can understand it from a footballing point of view, because no matter how much we don’t like Vesty, he does possess the ability to break through the press with a pass, which Souttar does not. If you take the goalkeeping situation as an example, Iversen would be good enough to play at this level and be one of the better goalkeepers, but because he can’t play the game with the ball at his feet, he isn’t playing. Vesty obviously has an area of his game that Enzo prefers over Souttar. I jokingly said Vesty had about 30% possesion in the 1st half against Cardiff. He does it very calmly, no panicking and has an eye for a very good pass (not all the time - that would be impossible). Can only presume Souttar wont be able to do this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankMarvin Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 15 minutes ago, hackneyfox said: Well I’ve seen a couple of passes that have moved the ball forward some distance and taken out of the game a number of opposition players. Not sure how you missed them. So manager fails to drop a player you don’t like and he’s the one making the error? Couldn’t be that you’re in the wrong and the manger actually knows best as to which player suits his style of play? For now, we have been very fortunate defensively due to poor finishing of the opposition. Sooner or later his lack of pace will be costly 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordersfox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: You are allowed to question a manager’s decision you know. Vestergaard is awful, regardless of whether or not your new messiah plays him. He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty Italian. Neh sorry, he's new in and he's making assessments about players on the basis of, basically, a professional lifetime of experience and a clear vision of what he wants for the team. Yeah, it's fine to question that down the line and depending on how things go. You get paid big bucks you expect scrutiny when you make poor decisions. I was an early critic of Rodgers, so I'm no lickspittle sonny. But right now I'm going to trust Maresca over FT and possibly over my own instincts regarding Vesty. Edited 25 August 2023 by Bordersfox 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCFCJohn Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 7 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: You are allowed to question a manager’s decision you know. Vestergaard is awful, regardless of whether or not your new messiah plays him. It’s baffling how he’s suddenly the best thing going for seemingly no basis other than Enzo is picking him He’s gash. His performances this season have been honking as they have always been. He’s not even looked any better playing at a lower level. We are damn well fortunate not to have conceded more due to his defending already this season! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_lcfc Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 16 minutes ago, Bordersfox said: He's not the Messiah he's a very naughty Italian. Neh sorry, he's new in and he's making assessments about players on the basis of, basically, a professional lifetime of experience and a clear vision of what he wants for the team. Yeah, it's fine to question that down the line and depending on how things go. You get paid big bucks you expect scrutiny when you make poor decisions. I was an early critic of Rodgers, so I'm no lickspittle sonny. But right now I'm going to trust Maresca over FT and possibly over my own instincts regarding Vesty. I should pre-face this with - I like Maresca and am encouraged by his start. But lifetime of experience? This is his second managerial job sonny. The first of which lasted 14 games before he was turfed out. Im afraid a lickspittle is exactly what you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splinterdream Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 43 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: Vestergaard over Souttar will never make sense, on any level. Properly baffling decision. Have to agree, enzo could have at least given Harry a game or 2 to show what he can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxinNotts Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 47 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: Vestergaard over Souttar will never make sense, on any level. Properly baffling decision. Spot on. I guarantee, as soon as we lose a game, and Vestergaard has played in that loss, he will have been the biggest contributory factor in that loss. It baffles me what any manager or coach sees in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 I fully support the manager's decision as I have been nothing but 100% impressed with him so far. I admire his single mindedness and how he makes his own decisions on what he feels is right. Souttar can feel harshly treated though, he's done pretty well when he has played and I remember going on the Stoke forum when we bought him and the consensus was that he was one of the best five players in the Championship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 51 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: Vestergaard over Souttar will never make sense, on any level. Properly baffling decision. it could just be that Souttar has said he has no intention of dropping down to the championship again and that Maresca wants to play people who are committed to the Cause? I could be wrong but i think it might be a similar situation with Daka? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelmofox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, splinterdream said: Have to agree, enzo could have at least given Harry a game or 2 to show what he can do. He will be basing his decision on what he sees in training. team meetings and conversations with the player, and if he doesn't think Souttar is up to it then he won't be picked. 3 league games in Enzo is not going to be playing tinkerman management. He will be using those who can implement his system, even if they are doing it out of their natural positions (aka Ndidi). Its telling that Enzo said we are like 10-20% ready with his solution. I imagine that until that number gets to about 50/60%, he won't tinker (i made the threshold up). Once the system is embedded and 2nd nature to the team, i imagine you will see him willing to drop players in who can't be the executing leaders of the system. Of course, by then, Souttar will probably be playing for Rangers. He going to be one dogged Italian. Its something we are going to have to get used to. Edited 25 August 2023 by Chelmofox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_lcfc Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 1 minute ago, MPH said: it could just be that Souttar has said he has no intention of dropping down to the championship again and that Maresca wants to play people who are committed to the Cause? I could be wrong but i think it might be a similar situation with Daka? Could be I suppose. I’m sure he was back early for pre-season as he was keen to get going this year. I could have mis-remembered that though! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 1 minute ago, James_lcfc said: Could be I suppose. I’m sure he was back early for pre-season as he was keen to get going this year. I could have mis-remembered that though! Feels a bit like when Sol Campbell turned out for Notts County and then to just decide " bugger this, i'm off" after a couple of games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordersfox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 15 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: I should pre-face this with - I like Maresca and am encouraged by his start. But lifetime of experience? This is his second managerial job sonny. The first of which lasted 14 games before he was turfed out. Im afraid a lickspittle is exactly what you are. A lifetime of experience in the game, clearly. Which makes him vastly more qualified than you when judging which players suit his system, sweet-cheeks. You have looked at the situation he walked into at Parma haven't you? And yes he was probably naïve to walk into it. But, hey, we all make mistakes don't we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimJams Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 The thing is Souttar is not and was not an established Premier league defender. He came in for half a season and ended up being relegated. Not sure he could/would have the brass to be demanding a move back to the top division. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolhandfox Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 57 minutes ago, James_lcfc said: You are allowed to question a manager’s decision you know. Vestergaard is awful, regardless of whether or not your new messiah plays him. Sometimes it about the sum of the parts rather then the value of the individual parts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxinNotts Posted 25 August 2023 Share Posted 25 August 2023 15 minutes ago, JimJams said: The thing is Souttar is not and was not an established Premier league defender. He came in for half a season and ended up being relegated. Not sure he could/would have the brass to be demanding a move back to the top division. True, but I don’t want him in the Pemier league, I want him playing for us, in the Championship ahead of Vestergaard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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