The "do they mean us?" thread pt 4

[SkidsFox]

Good man Sharpey..

 

[Spudulike]

'Marescalator'? He's knicked that off Henry Winter. 

[ChrisFilter]

“Finally Leicester looked bloody brilliant. Their style of play was awesome, truly baiting Liverpool's press, and usually managing to get through it (which is no mean feat with this energized Liverpool team). If they'd have had half of this positivity last season, they'd have stayed up by a country mile. Lets hope they get promoted this season, as they'll be a massive positive to the Premier League playing like this.”

comment from a Liverpool fan on the Guardian. 

[Ric Flair]

4 minutes ago, ChrisFilter said:

“Finally Leicester looked bloody brilliant. Their style of play was awesome, truly baiting Liverpool's press, and usually managing to get through it (which is no mean feat with this energized Liverpool team). If they'd have had half of this positivity last season, they'd have stayed up by a country mile. Lets hope they get promoted this season, as they'll be a massive positive to the Premier League playing like this.”

comment from a Liverpool fan on the Guardian. 

What struck me more than anything last night is, there was not an ounce of negativity or fear from us. The difference between having a philosophy like this vs a manager who proclaimed to play attacking football (and did at times) but seemed to inject doubt and a sense of containment in his teams play.

 

I know this could all change and who knows what happens week in, week out if we get back up next season but I see an identity here that the players 100% support and there's no environment to go in to your shell.

[ARTY_FOX]

24 minutes ago, ChrisFilter said:

“Finally Leicester looked bloody brilliant. Their style of play was awesome, truly baiting Liverpool's press, and usually managing to get through it (which is no mean feat with this energized Liverpool team). If they'd have had half of this positivity last season, they'd have stayed up by a country mile. Lets hope they get promoted this season, as they'll be a massive positive to the Premier League playing like this.”

comment from a Liverpool fan on the Guardian. 

Yet we have fans who basically want us to pump it to a big man still like Liverpool wouldn't have ran out 5-0 winners in that situation. 

[Stuntman_Mike]

12 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Yet we have fans who basically want us to pump it to a big man still like Liverpool wouldn't have ran out 5-0 winners in that situation. 

You can't say we didn't over play it at times though. I loved seeing us that confident on the ball but the amount of times we lost it in a dangerous position was unreal.

 

We had a good spell around 75th minute where we had a couple of free kicks and corners, Justin was fouled and their player should have been booked (but of course he wasn't) and that all stemmed from going long and mixing it up. 

 

I know we won't play a team like Liverpool all the time, so I guess Enzo saw it as a good opportunity to test it at that level.

[Scotch]

37 minutes ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Yet we have fans who basically want us to pump it to a big man still like Liverpool wouldn't have ran out 5-0 winners in that situation. 

I think we would benefit MASSIVELY from having a big man as our main striker. 

 

That's not to say that I want us to "pump it up" to him but if you watch us play, we play it up to a wide position and quite often put crosses in. We have definitely increased how many crosses we put into the box this year. Having a target man would certainly help that. 

 

Also, the way we play Nacho, we have him come deep and try hold the ball and link play, again something a Target man is traditionally used for. 

[coolhandfox]

32 minutes ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

You can't say we didn't over play it at times though. I loved seeing us that confident on the ball but the amount of times we lost it in a dangerous position was unreal.

 

We had a good spell around 75th minute where we had a couple of free kicks and corners, Justin was fouled and their player should have been booked (but of course he wasn't) and that all stemmed from going long and mixing it up. 

 

I know we won't play a team like Liverpool all the time, so I guess Enzo saw it as a good opportunity to test it at that level.

Hardly surprisingly, we made more mistakes at the start of the season as players bedded into the new system and way of playing. It took the average starting 11, 5 or 6 games to get to grips with it and it is still a work in progress.

 

Last night you had Soutter and Coady making their first starts, in a back 3 alongside Justin who only played 410 minutes after a long-term injury, so a back 3 who never played together.

 

The likes of Akgun, Casadei, Hamza haven't featured much either, expecting the team last night to be fluid and not make mistakes is unrealistic  

 

Last night for me was more of a chance to get minutes into those players to boost fitness and an understanding of the style and system of play.  

 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

21 minutes ago, Scotch said:

I think we would benefit MASSIVELY from having a big man as our main striker. 

 

That's not to say that I want us to "pump it up" to him but if you watch us play, we play it up to a wide position and quite often put crosses in. We have definitely increased how many crosses we put into the box this year. Having a target man would certainly help that. 

 

Also, the way we play Nacho, we have him come deep and try hold the ball and link play, again something a Target man is traditionally used for. 

An Ivan Toney or Mitrovic-type player would be prefect. 

 

 

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Hardly surprisingly, we made more mistakes at the start of the season as players bedded into the new system and way of playing. It took the average starting 11, 5 or 6 games to get to grips with it and it is still a work in progress.

 

Last night you had Soutter and Coady making their first starts, in a back 3 alongside Justin who only played 410 minutes after a long-term injury, so a back 3 who never played together.

 

The likes of Akgun, Casadei, Hamza haven't featured much either, expecting the team last night to be fluid and not make mistakes is unrealistic  

 

Last night for me was more of a chance to get minutes into those players to boost fitness and an understanding of the style and system of play.  

 

 

 

 

All of this is correct but it's also overlooking it was against fvcking Liverpool. 

 

Not only are they levels above us, they've always been Pep's kryptonite. 

 

In the rock, paper, scissors game of professional football they're definitely the rock to our scissors. 

[Stuntman_Mike]

4 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Hardly surprisingly, we made more mistakes at the start of the season as players bedded into the new system and way of playing. It took the average starting 11, 5 or 6 games to get to grips with it and it is still a work in progress.

 

Last night you had Soutter and Coady making their first starts, in a back 3 alongside Justin who only played 410 minutes after a long-term injury, so a back 3 who never played together.

 

The likes of Akgun, Casadei, Hamza haven't featured much either, expecting the team last night to be fluid and not make mistakes is unrealistic  

 

Last night for me was more of a chance to get minutes into those players to boost fitness and an understanding of the style and system of play.  

 

 

 

It's not that I wasn't expecting a much changed side to be completely fluid at Anfield, it's more that I wanted us to stop playing ourselves into trouble that often. There were plenty of positives still.

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

It's not that I wasn't expecting a much changed side to be completely fluid at Anfield, it's more that I wanted us to stop playing ourselves into trouble that often. There were plenty of positives still.

Maresca wants us to play out from the back. Last night was an opportunity for the likes of Coady, Souttar and Justin to practice doing just that. If they'd have responded to Liverpool's press by hitting it longer (which would have been understandable in a league game), they'd have missed an opportunity to practice their passing against tough opponents. I suspect Maresca regarded the exercise as more important than the result, and personally I'm with him. 

[ChrisFilter]

13 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Maresca wants us to play out from the back. Last night was an opportunity for the likes of Coady, Souttar and Justin to practice doing just that. If they'd have responded to Liverpool's press by hitting it longer (which would have been understandable in a league game), they'd have missed an opportunity to practice their passing against tough opponents. I suspect Maresca regarded the exercise as more important than the result, and personally I'm with him. 

Yes, exactly this. A proper acid test of the approach against the world's best team at nullifying our approach.

[Stuntman_Mike]

33 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Maresca wants us to play out from the back. Last night was an opportunity for the likes of Coady, Souttar and Justin to practice doing just that. If they'd have responded to Liverpool's press by hitting it longer (which would have been understandable in a league game), they'd have missed an opportunity to practice their passing against tough opponents. I suspect Maresca regarded the exercise as more important than the result, and personally I'm with him. 

Completely fair. I suppose I just struggle to see a competitive game against a team I can't stand as a training exercise

But of course it would've been difficult however we approached it. I trust the "process" and @coolhandfox was spot on about the change of back 3, they did very well considering.

[ARTY_FOX]

2 hours ago, Scotch said:

I think we would benefit MASSIVELY from having a big man as our main striker. 

 

That's not to say that I want us to "pump it up" to him but if you watch us play, we play it up to a wide position and quite often put crosses in. We have definitely increased how many crosses we put into the box this year. Having a target man would certainly help that. 

 

Also, the way we play Nacho, we have him come deep and try hold the ball and link play, again something a Target man is traditionally used for. 

Maybe, but they're required to be good at football rather than just hold the ball up if you get what I mean. People need to get used to the fact we are going to play the way we are regardless. 

 

I'd agree we've needed a target man for years. 

[ARTY_FOX]

2 hours ago, Stuntman_Mike said:

You can't say we didn't over play it at times though. I loved seeing us that confident on the ball but the amount of times we lost it in a dangerous position was unreal.

 

We had a good spell around 75th minute where we had a couple of free kicks and corners, Justin was fouled and their player should have been booked (but of course he wasn't) and that all stemmed from going long and mixing it up. 

 

I know we won't play a team like Liverpool all the time, so I guess Enzo saw it as a good opportunity to test it at that level.

Thing is, liverpool are the best team in the world at countering the style of play that we want to implement aswell as just one of the best teams in the world full stop. Playing our way with our player in a one off cup game we aren't really interested in is more important than changing a style the players are just getting used to and tbh I think they did us all really proud 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Scotch said:

I think we would benefit MASSIVELY from having a big man as our main striker. 

Bayo could be convinced to come out of retirement?

 

 

[Spudulike]

2 hours ago, Scotch said:

I think we would benefit MASSIVELY from having a big man as our main striker. 

 

That's not to say that I want us to "pump it up" to him but if you watch us play, we play it up to a wide position and quite often put crosses in. We have definitely increased how many crosses we put into the box this year. Having a target man would certainly help that. 

 

Also, the way we play Nacho, we have him come deep and try hold the ball and link play, again something a Target man is traditionally used for. 

Some of those crosses would need to improve as they mostly seem to be the chipped, floated in variety, often doing a disservice to the impressive build up previously. That said, KDH should've scored from one last Saturday. 

[ALC Fox]

2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Hardly surprisingly, we made more mistakes at the start of the season as players bedded into the new system and way of playing. It took the average starting 11, 5 or 6 games to get to grips with it and it is still a work in progress.

 

Last night you had Soutter and Coady making their first starts, in a back 3 alongside Justin who only played 410 minutes after a long-term injury, so a back 3 who never played together.

 

The likes of Akgun, Casadei, Hamza haven't featured much either, expecting the team last night to be fluid and not make mistakes is unrealistic  

 

Last night for me was more of a chance to get minutes into those players to boost fitness and an understanding of the style and system of play.  

 

 

 

Absolutely. The benefits of games like that will be felt further down the line.

[Spudulike]

10 hours ago, ChrisFilter said:

“Finally Leicester looked bloody brilliant. Their style of play was awesome, truly baiting Liverpool's press, and usually managing to get through it (which is no mean feat with this energized Liverpool team). If they'd have had half of this positivity last season, they'd have stayed up by a country mile. Lets hope they get promoted this season, as they'll be a massive positive to the Premier League playing like this.”

comment from a Liverpool fan on the Guardian. 

Patronising twat. Liverpool fans love to dish out fake praise after winning. It's always been the way and the media lap it up. 

[ChrisFilter]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

Patronising twat. Liverpool fans love to dish out fake praise after winning. It's always been the way and the media lap it up. 

It didn’t read as patronising to me at all. We are where we are. 

[LCFCJohn]

11 hours ago, ARTY_FOX said:

Yet we have fans who basically want us to pump it to a big man still like Liverpool wouldn't have ran out 5-0 winners in that situation. 

I literally see this nowhere. It feels more like it’s a notion created by some to be dramatic.

 

Let me ask you, what do you think to balls like the long cross field one played by Doyle to McAteer for the winner at Rotherham? Or the ball by Hermansen to McAteer to put him in on goal at Norwich?

[st albans fox]

48 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

I literally see this nowhere. It feels more like it’s a notion created by some to be dramatic.

 

Let me ask you, what do you think to balls like the long cross field one played by Doyle to McAteer for the winner at Rotherham? Or the ball by Hermansen to McAteer to put him in on goal at Norwich?

Rotherham : keep ball moved them around and eventually allowed mcateer to be unmarked at the back of the box.  You don’t get the chance to play the long cross field pass to the free man unless you do the other stuff.

 

norwich: they pressed high and we continually played out. Every now and again you get the chance  to launch a long ball because their high press leaves some one on ones higher up the pitch and the defender only needs to switch off for a second to allow the attacker to get a run on him. Unless you’ve played out continually to draw the high press, you won’t get those one on one opportunity higher up.  Those long passes only becomes profitable options because you’ve done all the risky stuff. otherwise they are generally going to be 50/50 at best. 
 

whilst enzo is our coach, this is how we will play.  That doesn’t mean we won’t play long passes but unless we are under pressure they’ll be made when the player is either free or at worst one on one 

[LCFCJohn]

13 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Rotherham : keep ball moved them around and eventually allowed mcateer to be unmarked at the back of the box.  You don’t get the chance to play the long cross field pass to the free man unless you do the other stuff.

 

norwich: they pressed high and we continually played out. Every now and again you get the chance  to launch a long ball because their high press leaves some one on ones higher up the pitch and the defender only needs to switch off for a second to allow the attacker to get a run on him. Unless you’ve played out continually to draw the high press, you won’t get those one on one opportunity higher up.  Those long passes only becomes profitable options because you’ve done all the risky stuff. otherwise they are generally going to be 50/50 at best. 
 

whilst enzo is our coach, this is how we will play.  That doesn’t mean we won’t play long passes but unless we are under pressure they’ll be made when the player is either free or at worst one on one 

I’m not saying anything bad about how we are playing. I am enjoying it.

 

What I am saying is there is not this large group of people that seems to be imagined that want us to ‘lump it up to the big man’. There is a huge difference between lumping it up and as you say, 50/50 balls at best, and direct but precise balls when the opportunity presents. The latter is what we have been doing to good effect with some of the examples I highlighted. This is good and creates variety to our play. 
 

When people refer to direct, I believe this is what they are referring to. There may be the odd person who that isn’t the case for but I would imagine this is what the majority mean. It just annoys me when some people bang on about ‘hoofball’ and ‘lump it to the big man’ as that’s literally not what anyone is saying…

Edited 28 September 2023 by LCFCJohn

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

I’m not saying anything bad about how we are playing. I am enjoying it.

 

What I am saying is there is not this large group of people that seems to be imagined that want us to ‘lump it up to the big man’. There is a huge difference between lumping it up and as you say, 50/50 balls at best, and direct but precise balls when the opportunity presents. The latter is what we have been doing to good effect with some of the examples I highlighted. This is good and creates variety to our play. 
 

When people refer to direct, I believe this is what they are referring to. There may be the odd person who that isn’t the case for but I would imagine this is what the majority mean. It just annoys me when some people bang on about ‘hoofball’ and ‘lump it to the big man’ as that’s literally not what anyone is saying…

I hear you but I also know for sure that there is a significant number of our fans that simply don’t understand what we’re doing or don’t want to understand what we’re doing or can’t cope with what we’re doing due to it’s high risk nature