Also In The News - part 3

[fox_favourite]

4 hours ago, Bryn said:

I think the Tory vote is going to collapse whatever happens. I really hope this election is characterised by people actually looking at the policies and voting for who they actually want.

That's a pipe dream. People seem to vote with feelings rather than head on the masses. Not everyone, but a vast majority. 

 

But whichever way people vote, I agree that I think the Tory vote will collapse.

[Sly]

1 hour ago, fox_favourite said:

That's a pipe dream. People seem to vote with feelings rather than head on the masses. Not everyone, but a vast majority. 

 

But whichever way people vote, I agree that I think the Tory vote will collapse.

I’d always voted Conservative. 
 

Until Boris. 
 

They were a mess then, they are a mess now. 

I’d actually say Cameron, May and Sunak are the more likeable ones out of the merry go round we’ve had since they came into power. Truss and Johnson are ego maniacs, I can’t understand why anyone would vote to let a fox run the hen house.
 

Yes they are charismatic, however some of the great warlords and dictators of history were and  look what they did. 

[Zear0]

23 minutes ago, Sly said:

I’d always voted Conservative. 
 

Until Boris. 
 

They were a mess then, they are a mess now. 

I’d actually say Cameron, May and Sunak are the more likeable ones out of the merry go round we’ve had since they came into power. Truss and Johnson are ego maniacs, I can’t understand why anyone would vote to let a fox run the hen house.
 

Yes they are charismatic, however some of the great warlords and dictators of history were and  look what they did. 

Never thought I'd see Truss described as a fox... 

[Sly]

1 minute ago, Zear0 said:

Never thought I'd see Truss described as a fox... 

[Robo61]

10 hours ago, Bryn said:

I think the Tory vote is going to collapse whatever happens. I really hope this election is characterised by people actually looking at the policies and voting for who they actually want.

I broadly agree,  but for those of us who would not, given a proper choice, vote for a minority party,  my vote woud be wasted under our achaic system.  We supposadly invented democracy and helped to spread it around the world yet we are just about the only ones who continue to use FPTP.

[Mark_w]

3 hours ago, Zear0 said:

Never thought I'd see Truss described as a fox... 

Charismatic is a pretty interesting assessment of her to.

[Sampson]

Cameron sold the country out for a minor in-party dispute because he’d got cocky after the Scotland and AV referendums.
 

Watch the Cameron Years documentary on BBC - Clegg and Osborne both tried to talk him out of it but Cameron stubbornly went along with it anyway. It was his choice and he caused the country’s biggest self-inflicted geo-political shitshow since at least the Suez Crisis if not before.

 

No way he should be considered one of the “better” PMs of this generation of Tory rule. He absolutely belongs alongside Liz Truss, Anthony Eden and Neville Chamberlain as history’s worst ever PMs.

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, Zear0 said:

Never thought I'd see Truss described as a fox... 

She's more the 2022-23 Foxes. Batshit crazy finances leading to an unprecedented plummet.

[urban.spaceman]

13 hours ago, Daggers said:

He has taken one of Sunak’s biggest small boats policy supporters, the one who features in every cliff top press briefing, and removed that chess piece from the game. Moreover, she’s pissing on Sunak on the way out. It’s not so much she’s joined Labour as left the Tories - I doubt we’ll hear a single word from her for the rest of the Parliament. 
 

Strategically, it’s a bit of a masterstroke. Outside of the Twitterati, I don’t think it has any impact on voting intention - and most will continue to hold their noses as she won’t be standing at the GE. 
 

Tories are now in full crisis mode - being told to stay in their constituencies so they don’t plot - they’re going to freak if anymore ebb away. One more could trigger a motion of no confidence and bring down the whole stinking mess. 

I think people have been making the basic mistake of underestimating Starmer.

[urban.spaceman]

During the meanwhilst:

 

 

 

[Dunge]

1 hour ago, Mark_w said:

Charismatic is a pretty interesting assessment of her to.

Yeah, she had literally nothing going for her, which made her election at the hands of the Conservative Party members all the more baffling.

[Daggers]

1 minute ago, Dunge said:

Yeah, she had literally nothing going for her, which made her election at the hands of the Conservative Party members all the more baffling.

She was the right colour. 

[EnderbyFox]

Blimey, another defector. Labour on a roll now

 

 

 



 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunge]

1 minute ago, Daggers said:

She was the right colour. 

Unfortunately I think there’s an element of truth in that. It was certainly the moment beyond everything where I completely fell out with the party.

[Tommy G]

13 hours ago, Bryn said:

I think the Tory vote is going to collapse whatever happens. I really hope this election is characterised by people actually looking at the policies and voting for who they actually want.

You are referring to the great British public here who voted in favour of Brexit. 

[Bryn]

18 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

You are referring to the great British public here who voted in favour of Brexit. 

By a narrow margin of people who voted in a vote in which the Leave camp were allowed to lie freely. I should probably acknowledge that for my desire to work as I would want voter turnout would need to be much higher.

[RoboFox]

14 hours ago, Bryn said:

I think the Tory vote is going to collapse whatever happens. I really hope this election is characterised by people actually looking at the policies and voting for who they actually want.

 

It will, but I doubt at the level that some are predicting.

 

1. People have very short memories.

2. The vast majority of voters won't have a clue about policy, and will make their decision based on the front page of the Sun

3. They treat it like a sport where you have to stick with your team

4. The electorate are idiots

 

[EnderbyFox]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, Bryn said:

By a narrow margin of people who voted in a vote in which the Leave camp were allowed to lie freely. I should probably acknowledge that for my desire to work as I would want voter turnout would need to be much higher.

Every government or political party is allowed to lie, by the way. The reason Brexit happened is because people believed ''foreigners were stealing our jobs'', not because the leave camp lied. 

[HighPeakFox]

8 hours ago, Sly said:

I’d always voted Conservative. 
 

Until Boris. 
 

They were a mess then, they are a mess now. 

I’d actually say Cameron, May and Sunak are the more likeable ones out of the merry go round we’ve had since they came into power. Truss and Johnson are ego maniacs, I can’t understand why anyone would vote to let a fox run the hen house.
 

Yes they are charismatic, however some of the great warlords and dictators of history were and  look what they did. 

I put it to you that they've been a corrupt, venal mess for longer than you might care to imagine. Absolutely not judging you at all, but none of us likes conceding on such things. 

[Bryn]

16 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Every government or political party is allowed to lie, by the way. The reason Brexit happened is because people believed ''foreigners were stealing our jobs'', not because the leave camp lied. 

I mean it’s both isn’t it. All populations have varying degrees of education and awareness of such issues. That’s why we have representative democracy instead of direct democracy. The social contract is that our representatives should provide honest information to the electorate to allow for informed consent. Now I appreciate it’s naive to expect the government to be 100% transparent on every issue with every person in society for all sorts of reasons, but in a binary plebiscite we should be entitled to crystal clear and accurate information and evidence-based opinion (and the difference between fact and opinion should be clear). The Leave campaign patently lied and deceived.

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Bryn said:

I mean it’s both isn’t it. All populations have varying degrees of education and awareness of such issues. That’s why we have representative democracy instead of direct democracy. The social contract is that our representatives should provide honest information to the electorate to allow for informed consent. Now I appreciate it’s naive to expect the government to be 100% transparent on every issue with every person in society for all sorts of reasons, but in a binary plebiscite we should be entitled to crystal clear and accurate information and evidence-based opinion (and the difference between fact and opinion should be clear). The Leave campaign patently lied and deceived.

More than the government or the Leave campaign it was the press and their constant denigratory stories about Eastern Europeans and the social & economic situation in European countries. The elected government in 2016 actually presented a pretty clear analysis of what Brexit would mean, even if it was half-hearted. 

 

Compared to other countries I've lived in I actually think our politics is slightly more honest and transparent but much of our media is deranged (see the Express and the never-ending Brexit benefits) and our population is relatively clueless when it comes to the cause-effect of government policy. Obviously you can't totally disentangle that from politics.

[RoboFox]

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Edited 9 May 2024 by RoboFox

[Mickyblueeyes]

22 hours ago, Daggers said:

He has taken one of Sunak’s biggest small boats policy supporters, the one who features in every cliff top press briefing, and removed that chess piece from the game. Moreover, she’s pissing on Sunak on the way out. It’s not so much she’s joined Labour as left the Tories - I doubt we’ll hear a single word from her for the rest of the Parliament. 
 

Strategically, it’s a bit of a masterstroke. Outside of the Twitterati, I don’t think it has any impact on voting intention - and most will continue to hold their noses as she won’t be standing at the GE. 
 

Tories are now in full crisis mode - being told to stay in their constituencies so they don’t plot - they’re going to freak if anymore ebb away. One more could trigger a motion of no confidence and bring down the whole stinking mess. 

Yes, all perfectly reasonable points. 
 

However, the Tories are in self-destruct mode with a leader who is anything but a leader. They are damaging themselves and Labour, for once, don’t need to assist. 
 

Starmer and Labour also have a significant lead in the polls BUT we have just gone through a local election where, despite a number of gains, the margins in some seats were very close. This was very much due to protest votes. 
 

This moronic imbecile they’ve acquired as a Labour Party MP offers nothing of value. Her joining further alienates the left of the party and potentially, (using a broad term, which I hate) ethnic voters, who, in the locals chose the protest vote. 
 

Independents creating deep fake videos and Galloway will potentially cause havoc. 
 

This Tory party needs destroying. They are a stain on the country and not only do we need them with a tiny weeny minority, we also need to avoid Reform gaining even one seat (which I think is unlikely). 
 

I know Labour advisors are working hard on regaining “traditional” voters who went elsewhere or may be incline to go elsewhere. This is with Starmer who (whether rightly or wrongly) does not have the appeal or charisma of a Blair - not my point of view but it’s there. And while I agree I don’t think this person who may have magically found some principles will offer anything of value for the GE, I think it’s the wrong tactic for the wrong battle. 
 

Hope I’m wrong but my hatred for this CURRENT Tory lot, I want them beaten and beaten well. 

[Lionator]

Based on Cameron's "nothing will stop arm shipments to Israel" quotes today. How far do you think that would go?

 

If Israel nuked Rafah tomorrow like some of the hardliners have called for, would we still be sending them bombs?