Job Hunting

[leicsmac]

Didn't see a specific thread for this one, so I thought it might not be a bad idea to have a place where people can share their experiences and advice.

 

Been looking for a little while now, and quite frankly even with a Masters degree the only science-related opportunities in the Leicestershire area appear to be teaching work, which frankly I've had enough of (outside of very specific scientist posts looking for very specific qualifications and experience). Having never really had a professional job in the UK before (all my white-collar stuff has been abroad) makes this a rather new game for me too. Double figure applications sent out (and don't they take a while to do?), one interview so far.

 

I remember @Izzy saying that who you know is critical as well as what you know, but I abhor networking - always seemed too much like superficial banality and sometimes arse-kissing to me, but then I also understand it's importance and I really do need to get better at it.

 

Looking forward to hearing from other people about their own experiences and advice.

[Tommy G]

11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Didn't see a specific thread for this one, so I thought it might not be a bad idea to have a place where people can share their experiences and advice.

 

Been looking for a little while now, and quite frankly even with a Masters degree the only science-related opportunities in the Leicestershire area appear to be teaching work, which frankly I've had enough of (outside of very specific scientist posts looking for very specific qualifications and experience). Having never really had a professional job in the UK before (all my white-collar stuff has been abroad) makes this a rather new game for me too. Double figure applications sent out (and don't they take a while to do?), one interview so far.

 

I remember @Izzy saying that who you know is critical as well as what you know, but I abhor networking - always seemed too much like superficial banality and sometimes arse-kissing to me, but then I also understand it's importance and I really do need to get better at it.

 

Looking forward to hearing from other people about their own experiences and advice.

I'd agree with that - more so than qualifications in todays world. Depending on the sector, I think its crucial in 2023 to be aware and in touch with technology, AI in particular will be huge before the end of the decade - be a strong communicator - both with people in the lowest skill roles right up to board level and treat all with the same level of respect, you then will be respected. 

 

Good luck finding a new role - there are a lot of cr*p people out there, so I don't think you will have much of an issue, prep for interview well. Are you looking in the midlands area? I work in Aerospace so if that's something that interests you let me know, we employ 300 people locally and always after talented people.

[goose2010]

Linked In is pretty decent to get your name out there and a lot of recruiters seem to use it. 

[grobyfox1990]

Getting out to meet people is prob the main thing given you say you’re masters level and are an experienced hire. Everyone at your level is gonna be ‘good’ so the difference is prob gonna be personality and likeability. Also I forget how much business is done via alcohol in the western world. It’s vital to building relationships imo 

[RoboFox]

I've been with the same company for 12 years. I know I could earn much more if I played the career game, but the prospect of job hunting shits me up TBH. I'm fine with being comfortable in my job. 

 

I can barely remember what an interview is like as a candidate but I often interview people for roles in my team, and I get empathetic nerves. 

 

Keep your CV brief, and it might sound obvious but it's amazing how many people don't research the company / role / product before they attend an interview. One of my opening questions is always about recent output from our particular area of the business (I work in media), and 80% of people can't answer the question despite it being obvious and easily accessible.

 

It's an instant no, and then it's just 45 minutes of wasting everyone's time. 

[Happy Fox]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Didn't see a specific thread for this one, so I thought it might not be a bad idea to have a place where people can share their experiences and advice.

 

Been looking for a little while now, and quite frankly even with a Masters degree the only science-related opportunities in the Leicestershire area appear to be teaching work, which frankly I've had enough of (outside of very specific scientist posts looking for very specific qualifications and experience). Having never really had a professional job in the UK before (all my white-collar stuff has been abroad) makes this a rather new game for me too. Double figure applications sent out (and don't they take a while to do?), one interview so far.

 

I remember @Izzy saying that who you know is critical as well as what you know, but I abhor networking - always seemed too much like superficial banality and sometimes arse-kissing to me, but then I also understand it's importance and I really do need to get better at it.

 

Looking forward to hearing from other people about their own experiences and advice.

 

Is your background in Health research? if so Clinical Trials research could be an option, plenty of positions.

[Greg2607]

2 hours ago, goose2010 said:

Linked In is pretty decent to get your name out there and a lot of recruiters seem to use it. 

EVERY recruiter is on linkedin and you really need to have a strong profile.... 

 

Here's some additional tips from stuff I wrote a while ago now, but alot of it will still apply. 

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-recruiting-job-search-during-covid-19-so-much-better-statham-/?trackingId=phKTpSlHS3Wo8PlN%2FKCeLQ%3D%3D

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/make-your-linkedin-profile-stand-out-from-crowd-greg-statham-/?trackingId=phKTpSlHS3Wo8PlN%2FKCeLQ%3D%3D

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/social-media-faux-pas-avoid-when-youre-searching-your-greg/?trackingId=phKTpSlHS3Wo8PlN%2FKCeLQ%3D%3D

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Tommy G said:

I'd agree with that - more so than qualifications in todays world. Depending on the sector, I think its crucial in 2023 to be aware and in touch with technology, AI in particular will be huge before the end of the decade - be a strong communicator - both with people in the lowest skill roles right up to board level and treat all with the same level of respect, you then will be respected. 

 

Good luck finding a new role - there are a lot of cr*p people out there, so I don't think you will have much of an issue, prep for interview well. Are you looking in the midlands area? I work in Aerospace so if that's something that interests you let me know, we employ 300 people locally and always after talented people.

Well, I like to think communication is an area I'm alright at.

 

Yeah, I'm in the midlands and my degrees are both physics/aerospace and communication related, so I'd be interested.

 

2 hours ago, goose2010 said:

Linked In is pretty decent to get your name out there and a lot of recruiters seem to use it. 

I'll have to get my old LI account out of mothballs then - not used it for a while.

 

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Getting out to meet people is prob the main thing given you say you’re masters level and are an experienced hire. Everyone at your level is gonna be ‘good’ so the difference is prob gonna be personality and likeability. Also I forget how much business is done via alcohol in the western world. It’s vital to building relationships imo 

That makes sense, even though I've gotta say the idea grates somewhat.

 

51 minutes ago, Happy Fox said:

 

Is your background in Health research? if so Clinical Trials research could be an option, plenty of positions.

Sadly not, health is the other area I've seen a lot of in this area but that's not my area of expertise.

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Didn't see a specific thread for this one, so I thought it might not be a bad idea to have a place where people can share their experiences and advice.

 

Been looking for a little while now, and quite frankly even with a Masters degree the only science-related opportunities in the Leicestershire area appear to be teaching work, which frankly I've had enough of (outside of very specific scientist posts looking for very specific qualifications and experience). Having never really had a professional job in the UK before (all my white-collar stuff has been abroad) makes this a rather new game for me too. Double figure applications sent out (and don't they take a while to do?), one interview so far.

 

I remember @Izzy saying that who you know is critical as well as what you know, but I abhor networking - always seemed too much like superficial banality and sometimes arse-kissing to me, but then I also understand it's importance and I really do need to get better at it.

 

Looking forward to hearing from other people about their own experiences and advice.

This very specific work you allude to, but take care not to mention...

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

This very specific work you allude to, but take care not to mention...

Ha, true.

 

It appears to be high-end lab work and engineering projects, neither of which I really have much of a chance of getting given lack of experience and requisite specific qualifications.

[Manini]

8 hours ago, Greg2607 said:

EVERY recruiter is on linkedin and you really need to have a strong profile.... 

 

Here's some additional tips from stuff I wrote a while ago now, but alot of it will still apply. 

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-recruiting-job-search-during-covid-19-so-much-better-statham-/?trackingId=phKTpSlHS3Wo8PlN%2FKCeLQ%3D%3D

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/make-your-linkedin-profile-stand-out-from-crowd-greg-statham-/?trackingId=phKTpSlHS3Wo8PlN%2FKCeLQ%3D%3D

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/social-media-faux-pas-avoid-when-youre-searching-your-greg/?trackingId=phKTpSlHS3Wo8PlN%2FKCeLQ%3D%3D

Some good stuff here Greg 👍🏻

[SystonFox]

recruitment is hard at the moment. it's hard to find good people who want to see it out. i genuinely think covid has had a negative impact as people have got too used to sitting on their arse being furlowed. 

 

too many peopl are coming into my business, not enjoying it after a week and then fookin off. hard work to recruit good honest working people

[RobHawk]

6 hours ago, SystonFox said:

recruitment is hard at the moment. it's hard to find good people who want to see it out. i genuinely think covid has had a negative impact as people have got too used to sitting on their arse being furlowed. 

 

too many peopl are coming into my business, not enjoying it after a week and then fookin off. hard work to recruit good honest working people

I'm in the same boat, trying to recruit is nightmare. I've got up to 3 positions available so I called 12 candidates yesterday, only 4 answered, one spent more time telling me about all his health issues and why this job wouldn't be suitable, the other 3 I'll interview on Monday. That was from an original pool of about 50 applications. 

 

I left messages where possible with the other 8 but no return calls so far. 

 

 

[Nalis]

One important thing that often gets overlooked is the value to the company you are apply for as opposed to how great or smart you might be.

 

LinkedIn is great as mentioned. If dont want to post anything, start linking with people or groups in industry and hit like on some of the posts. Put your LinkedIn status as looking for jobs which you can do without the in your face 'Open for Work' thing on your profile pic.

 

Take recruitment consultants with a pinch of salt, there are some good ones and then there are bullshitters.

 

Annoying as it sounds tailor your CV. Maybe have a longer master CV and then take out what isnt as important for that job. As someone else said, try to limit it to 2 pages.

 

Finally, avoid US advice on job hunting if you are looking for jobs in the UK. Very different approaches.

[Alf Bentley]

This is a timely thread, as I've recently been job hunting for the first time in 25 years. I'm at a different career stage from most posters, as I'm now 61 (to quote my Dad, "I'm a man with a great future behind me" ).

 

I'd been a self-employed translator, working from home since 1999 - and last hunted for jobs in 1997-98, when the Internet was a new invention. Despite working solo as a translator for so long, I never enjoyed the social isolation. But circumstances conspired to make it the obvious choice: I wanted to work with languages but failed to get a career job using languages; my now ex-partner needed post-accident home care for months; then it allowed me to play a more active parenting role while my daughter was growing up........but none of those reasons now apply and workflow had been dwindling. Rather than look for new translation clients, I've opted to seek outside employment through to pension age.

 

So, for a few months, I'm now a Parking Attendant for a major retail chain. With travel, the hours are long and I'd get sick of it eventually, but so far I've quite enjoyed going out to work, working outside and having some social contact (even if a lot of the contact is telling people they're parked in the wrong place! ).

 

I hope to move to Devon early next year so will look for something slightly better down there - possibly agency office work but I'm wondering about seeking a languages-based Teaching Assistant post. Anyone any experience of TA work? I never fancied being a teacher but TA work could be a means of using my languages, doing something a bit useful/stimulating and having long holidays, without having to do lots of lesson prep, marking or unwinding like a teacher does...

 

A couple of insights so far on job seeking after a 25-year gap:

- The Garbage In, Garbage Out principle still applies to a more technology-driven HR

- To get work via agencies, it's still worth going to their offices in person, despite most applications now being online

 

I applied for about 15-20 jobs online, direct and via agencies, but didn't get a single reply - apart from an automated message from a supermarket banning from applying for 6 months as I'd got a question wrong in an employment quiz. 

So, I went into the agency office to get job application advice and to see if the face-to-face approach still worked, as it did 25 years ago. They pretty much offered me the Parking Attendant job there and then.

 

The agency bod also said that most employers now select candidates for interview purely by automated checking of the use of "key words" in applications. So, if the job description requires a "dynamic team worker" who has "customer service experience", you'll get an interview if you use those words in your application - even if you're a crap candidate. Whereas, if you're a good candidate but don't use the key words, you won't even get an interview. Absolute madness, if true.

 

I don't envy you having to complete applications for career jobs, @leicsmac. I remember having to do that back in 97-98, writing mini-essays describing occasions on which I'd shown leadership, initiative, teamwork, flexibility, innovation or whatever. On average, it took half a day to complete an application - and most of them yielded no response whatsoever, not even a rejection letter. After months of that and having failed the few interviews I got, I resorted to agency work, then self-employment. I wish you better fortune!

 

 

[Greg2607]

The bit about keyword matching for interviews absolutely isn't correct..... That doesn't happen.  HOWEVER you'd be surprised how many people apply to jobs.... 

 

I'd say on average, per vacancy, I've got between 100-200 applicants. 

 

This year alone at work, we've had 180'000 applicants to our open vacancies. 

 

You have to find a way to stand out or only apply for roles that are really suitable. 

[Sampson]

28 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

The bit about keyword matching for interviews absolutely isn't correct..... That doesn't happen.  HOWEVER you'd be surprised how many people apply to jobs.... 

 

I'd say on average, per vacancy, I've got between 100-200 applicants. 

 

This year alone at work, we've had 180'000 applicants to our open vacancies. 

 

You have to find a way to stand out or only apply for roles that are really suitable. 

I think it depends on the business. Bigger businesses and bigger recruiter chains definitely do use AI/algorithims to pre-screen CVs before the recruiter/employer even seens them though. You also get sent a lot of those pattern recognition tests and tests which take 30 minutes of multiple choice questions these days. The main point of these isn't really to see how good you are at solving problems but just to weed out candidates who can't be bothered to go through aa half hour test (which is probably the great majority) in order to cut the numbers of job assessments down to a more manageable size.

[Greg2607]

I can only talk about the business I work for I guess, which turns over £2bn a year... We don't use AI.  

 

Most recruitment software isn't sophisticated enough to do that and it definitely doesn't hide cv's from recruiters. 

 

I'm sure lots of people will tell themselves that's why they haven't got an interview... "It's the algorithm"... But the simple truth is that there were people who looked a better fit on paper. 

 

If I've got 20 live jobs that I'm managing and I've got even 50 applicants per job, it's not practical to speak to 1000 people.  

 

I might speak to the 200 Cv's that are the closest fit for those jobs, and I might then shortlist 5 people to interview for each job... 

 

But it's rarely an algorithm making those decisions up front. 

 

I'm happy to be corrected if others that work in recruitment are doing things differently, but I suspect the vast majority aren't. 

[leicsmac]

About two dozen applications, one interview so far. Just heard this morning that one was unsuccessful.

 

It's not easy, this job finding lark, is it?

[grobyfox1990]

31 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

About two dozen applications, one interview so far. Just heard this morning that one was unsuccessful.

 

It's not easy, this job finding lark, is it?

No idea what industry, experience level or background you are in, but do you have uni contacts? Industry, ex-colleagues, general alumni who you can ask for jobs? Maybe I am way off the mark and so entrenched in my own industry but it's hard to imagine people reading applications forms these days. 

[CosbehFox]

One piece of advice I was given by a colleague recently about meeting people. When you have that first chat, try to remember one thing about them. When you meet again, refer to that thing ie ‘how was your holiday in?’ 
 

Goes a long way. 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

No idea what industry, experience level or background you are in, but do you have uni contacts? Industry, ex-colleagues, general alumni who you can ask for jobs? Maybe I am way off the mark and so entrenched in my own industry but it's hard to imagine people reading applications forms these days. 

Having been out of the country for the longest time and my own attitude towards networking means I'm starting on the ground floor there, I'm afraid.

 

But I know it's the key to getting ahead now so I've got to grit my teeth and get on with it, I guess.

 

NB. Science and tech communication, but my background is mostly education.

[Daggers]

6 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

One piece of advice I was given by a colleague recently about meeting people. When you have that first chat, try to remember one thing about them. When you meet again, refer to that thing ie ‘how was your holiday in?’ 
 

Goes a long way. 

Hi, how was your Holiday Inn?

[grobyfox1990]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Having been out of the country for the longest time and my own attitude towards networking means I'm starting on the ground floor there, I'm afraid.

 

But I know it's the key to getting ahead now so I've got to grit my teeth and get on with it, I guess.

 

NB. Science and tech communication, but my background is mostly education.

Haha yes now you've quoted me I see your username, sorry for the repetition. I always think you come across really well, I cannot imagine you'd find it difficult creating a network and some quality job opportunities. Does not have to be forced, all of my 'business development' is talking about football, holidays, yoga and beer. If the person is not interested in said hobbies, I move on. 

Edited 17 November 2023 by grobyfox1990
typo

[Tommy G]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Haha yes now you've quoted me I see your username, sorry for the repetition. I always think you come across really well, I cannot imagine you'd find it difficult creating a network and some quality job opportunities. Does not have to be forced, all of my 'business development' is talking about football, holidays, yoga and beer. If the person is not interested in said hobbies, I move on. 

What a combo. Hold my beer while I do the downward dog.