General News

[Parafox]

On 08/02/2025 at 16:40, ajthefox said:

I think they're pretty elegant really. 

 That gentle swish, swish and the thought of "how big is that ****ing dynamo"?

 

I also wonder what the wing tip speed is.

Edited 9 February by Parafox

[leicsmac]

Good to see that the current government are taking rapid action on their members of parliament being arses on social media, but that being said, would the Heil really make as much of a big deal of someone being called "a thick posh lazy oaf" if it was a Tory or Reform MP saying it?

 

Compared to what Gwynne posted which was pretty beyond the pale, this seems pretty mild.

[ramboacdc]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Good to see that the current government are taking rapid action on their members of parliament being arses on social media, but that being said, would the Heil really make as much of a big deal of someone being called "a thick posh lazy oaf" if it was a Tory or Reform MP saying it?

 

Compared to what Gwynne posted which was pretty beyond the pale, this seems pretty mild.

They wouldn't, but you can bet that The Mirror and Guardian would jump all over it. 

 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, ramboacdc said:

They wouldn't, but you can bet that The Mirror and Guardian would jump all over it. 

 

Yeah, that's likely.

 

It would be equally vacuous if they used it as front page fodder in the same way.

[leicsmac]

Gazans "wouldn't have the right to return" to their homeland if the US were to take control of it.

 

Well, thank you for saying the (sort of) quiet part about the ethnic cleansing out loud.

[Tommy G]

MPs pay going up above inflation  by 2.8% to £94k p.a.

 

Unpopular opinion but I don't think that salary is enough - you'll need to pay better than that to attract a better standard of MP - I know everyone will say most don't do it for the money, its a calling in life etc etc but it's not very well remunerated vs the demands of the job - even if you fleece the expense system and have a hot dinner at the heavily subsidised canteen.

[Torquay Gunner]

16 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

MPs pay going up above inflation  by 2.8% to £94k p.a.

 

Unpopular opinion but I don't think that salary is enough - you'll need to pay better than that to attract a better standard of MP - I know everyone will say most don't do it for the money, its a calling in life etc etc but it's not very well remunerated vs the demands of the job - even if you fleece the expense system and have a hot dinner at the heavily subsidised canteen.

Biggest laugh I am likely to have today.   Cheers for that. 

[Tommy G]

Just now, Torquay Gunner said:

Biggest laugh I am likely to have today.   Cheers for that. 

Why? Whatever side of the political spectrum you sit the job of an effective MP is long times spent away from your family, and long hours of slog. It's not clocking in at 8am, 30 mins lunch then clock off at 5pm. 

 

My point is for the hours you put in, what you get back is average - which is why we have a load of average people in politics. 

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

MPs pay going up above inflation  by 2.8% to £94k p.a.

 

Unpopular opinion but I don't think that salary is enough - you'll need to pay better than that to attract a better standard of MP - I know everyone will say most don't do it for the money, its a calling in life etc etc but it's not very well remunerated vs the demands of the job - even if you fleece the expense system and have a hot dinner at the heavily subsidised canteen.

By comparison to high level private industry, it really isn't that much, yes, while having influence and responsibility reasonably commensurate with those high level industry positions.

 

That will result in those most talented for the job either looking elsewhere or finding...other revenue streams, it's true. And no one wants a corrupt political process.

[kenny]

6 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Why? Whatever side of the political spectrum you sit the job of an effective MP is long times spent away from your family, and long hours of slog. It's not clocking in at 8am, 30 mins lunch then clock off at 5pm. 

 

My point is for the hours you put in, what you get back is average - which is why we have a load of average people in politics. 

And having campaigned alongside your current job for years, you get sacked because people no longer like your boss.

 

While at work, no matter how well you do, you will be liable for volleys of abuse and long hours.

 

Not for me.

 

Its always worth noting that Headteachers earn up to £138k per year and the secretary of state for education earns £159k. Would the best Headteacher in the country give up their position for a £12k after tax salary increase, that swiftly becomes a £49k pay cut at the next cabinet re-shuffle?

[Torquay Gunner]

36 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Why? Whatever side of the political spectrum you sit the job of an effective MP is long times spent away from your family, and long hours of slog. It's not clocking in at 8am, 30 mins lunch then clock off at 5pm. 

 

My point is for the hours you put in, what you get back is average - which is why we have a load of average people in politics. 

So you think MPs deserve to earn twice as much as teachers, who by the way tend to work long days too?   I would imagine a fair few  of these MPs work as consultants and if you factor in their expenses it’s not a bad living.  I would suppose Peter Bottomley might disagree though, as he found living on  £82,000 quite ‘grim’ a few years ago. 

Edited 10 February by Torquay Gunner

[Tommy G]

10 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

So you think MPs deserve to earn twice as much as teachers, who by the way tend to work long days too?   I would imagine a fair few  of these MPs work as consultants and if you factor in their expenses it’s not a bad living.  I would suppose Peter Bottomley might disagree though, as he found living on  £82,000 quite ‘grim’ a few years ago. 

You are always going to find professions where people are paid less and work long hours. My point is (alongside the long hours) is that we are talking about a group of people that heavily influence the running of the country - whether its education, health, social care, the economy etc and in my opinion we would see a better quality of person if the pay was better for the comparable responsibility in the private sector. You don't have to agree, but I think there is a discussion there. 

 

Admittedly It is a gateway to better earning power post office especially if you are a minister or an ex PM - just look at the amount of money Bozza and Tony Blair have made since. 

[davieG]

2 hours ago, Tommy G said:

You are always going to find professions where people are paid less and work long hours. My point is (alongside the long hours) is that we are talking about a group of people that heavily influence the running of the country - whether its education, health, social care, the economy etc and in my opinion we would see a better quality of person if the pay was better for the comparable responsibility in the private sector. You don't have to agree, but I think there is a discussion there. 

 

Admittedly It is a gateway to better earning power post office especially if you are a minister or an ex PM - just look at the amount of money Bozza and Tony Blair have made since. 

Shush don't mention the post office.

[the fox]

Also on the Palestine/israel news, the former israel defence minister admitted to issuing the hannibal directive (IDF killing its own civilians) on October 7th.

 

Another conspiracy theory turning out to be true I guess 

 

Edited 10 February by the fox

[FoxyPV]

14 minutes ago, the fox said:

Also on the Palestine/israel news, the former israel defence minister admitted to issuing the hannibal directive (IDF killing its own civilians) on October 7th.

 

Another conspiracy theory turning out to be true I guess 

 

Everything Israel accuses Palestine of, they have done.

 

Proven over and over and over again

[st albans fox]

27 minutes ago, the fox said:

Also on the Palestine/israel news, the former israel defence minister admitted to issuing the hannibal directive (IDF killing its own civilians) on October 7th.

 

Another conspiracy theory turning out to be true I guess 

 

 

12 minutes ago, FoxyPV said:

Everything Israel accuses Palestine of, they have done.

 

Proven over and over and over again

i don’t really think this should be debated on here because no one knows what happened.   When there is eventually a full enquiry in Israel all the facts will come out. (I guess probs not till post netenyahu) . The IDF have previously confirmed  killing around a dozen civilians in kibbutz be’eri when shelling a building holding terrorist infiltrators who were holding  captives. It’s not clear whether this was as a result of Hannibal or just poor coms in a stressful environment.  

 

Gallant confirmed in an interview last week that the directive had been issued in some instances on that day.  He didn’t say where and he didn’t say when.  Everything else is pure conjecture.   Gallant also has an agenda which may explain his actions. 

as mentioned so many times over the past 18 months, whilst a war is ongoing, there’s pretty much no information out of the middle east that’s trustworthy, irrespective of where it comes from. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Israel and Palestine are pretty much as bad as each other.

 

No one comes out smelling of rose.

 

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Israel and Palestine are pretty much as bad as each other.

 

No one comes out smelling of rose.

 

yeah alright Lineker 

[the fox]

49 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

i don’t really think this should be debated on here because no one knows what happened.   When there is eventually a full enquiry in Israel all the facts will come out. (I guess probs not till post netenyahu) . The IDF have previously confirmed  killing around a dozen civilians in kibbutz be’eri when shelling a building holding terrorist infiltrators who were holding  captives. It’s not clear whether this was as a result of Hannibal or just poor coms in a stressful environment.  

 

Gallant confirmed in an interview last week that the directive had been issued in some instances on that day.  He didn’t say where and he didn’t say when.  Everything else is pure conjecture.   Gallant also has an agenda which may explain his actions. 

as mentioned so many times over the past 18 months, whilst a war is ongoing, there’s pretty much no information out of the middle east that’s trustworthy, irrespective of where it comes from. 

There are pictures, eyewitness testimonies, and the former secretary of defence's himself admitting to it but it's still not enough perhaps?

 

A sane person finds himself a little skeptical when you have the government of israel trying to buy sympathy by saying Hamas use human shields, when they are documented as using human shields, they cry rape when they are the ones raping and have people protesting for the release of rapists, they cry over "babies in ovens" when they are the ones who burned Palestinian babies in ovens and the list goes on and on. 

 

It's all a big conspiracy against israel porhaps, I remember having a back and forth (the posts are now deleted) back when israel started attacking and I posted a video of the hospital getting hit by a rocket and a few posters insisted on it being hit by a misfired hamas rocket from a graveyard right next to the hospital despite the fact that you can hear a rocket flying for the better part of 10 seconds before impact on the video. and my point is, despite all that's came out, the same posters still find a way to excuse Israel's genocide to this day so it probably has gone past playing the devil's advocate by now.

 

I will leave it at this because this discussion won't bear fruit.

Edited 10 February by the fox

[Clogger_]

5 hours ago, Tommy G said:

MPs pay going up above inflation  by 2.8% to £94k p.a.

 

Unpopular opinion but I don't think that salary is enough - you'll need to pay better than that to attract a better standard of MP - I know everyone will say most don't do it for the money, its a calling in life etc etc but it's not very well remunerated vs the demands of the job - even if you fleece the expense system and have a hot dinner at the heavily subsidised canteen.

Demands? Not in all cases. Don't romanticise the idea of hard working constituency MPs. Many are utterly workshy and essentially redundant. Take the Reform mob, Truss or by all local accounts Badenoch as recent examples. (I'm sure not all waste of space MPs are from the right, just more seem to come to straight to mind)

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, the fox said:

There are pictures, eyewitness testimonies, and the former secretary of defence's himself admitting to it but it's still not enough perhaps?

 

A sane person finds himself a little skeptical when you have the government of israel trying to buy sympathy by saying Hamas use human shields, when they are documented as using human shields, they cry rape when they are the ones raping and have people protesting for the release of rapists, they cry over "babies in ovens" when they are the ones who burned Palestinian babies in ovens and the list goes on and on. 

 

It's all a big conspiracy against israel porhaps, I remember having a back and forth (the posts are now deleted) back when israel started attacking and I posted a video of the hospital getting hit by a rocket and a few posters insisted on it being hit by a misfired hamas rocket from a graveyard right next to the hospital despite the fact that you can hear a rocket flying for the better part of 10 seconds before impact on the video. and my point is, despite all that's came out, the same posters still find a way to excuse Israel's genocide to this day so it probably has gone past playing the devil's advocate by now.

 

I will leave it at this because this discussion won't bear fruit.

You proved my point 

that hospital where 500 were killed by an Israeli strike was actually struck by a PIJ misfire and less than 20 were killed.  Seriously - there’s nothing that comes out from both sides that can be a trusted - photos and videos are manipulated and staged 

 

The former defence secretary  (who was sacked and now has designs on one day fighting for election as PM) was deliberately vague. He said actually nothing in detail about Hannibal on that day.  What was way more notable were his comments on the hostage deal and that it should have been done last may.  
 

 

 

[the fox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

as mentioned so many times over the past 18 months, whilst a war is ongoing, there’s pretty much no information out of the middle east that’s trustworthy, irrespective of where it comes from. 

 

18 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

You proved my point 

that hospital where 500 were killed by an Israeli strike was actually struck by a PIJ misfire and less than 20 were killed. 

 

18 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Seriously - there’s nothing that comes out from both sides that can be a trusted - photos and videos are manipulated 

 

 

28 minutes ago, the fox said:

 

I will leave it at this because this discussion won't bear fruit.

 

 

[jgtuk]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 

i don’t really think this should be debated on here because no one knows what happened.   When there is eventually a full enquiry in Israel all the facts will come out. (I guess probs not till post netenyahu) . The IDF have previously confirmed  killing around a dozen civilians in kibbutz be’eri when shelling a building holding terrorist infiltrators who were holding  captives. It’s not clear whether this was as a result of Hannibal or just poor coms in a stressful environment.  

 

Gallant confirmed in an interview last week that the directive had been issued in some instances on that day.  He didn’t say where and he didn’t say when.  Everything else is pure conjecture.   Gallant also has an agenda which may explain his actions. 

as mentioned so many times over the past 18 months, whilst a war is ongoing, there’s pretty much no information out of the middle east that’s trustworthy, irrespective of where it comes from. 

There’s plenty of trustworthy information coming from Palestine, I suggest first you might want to look for the accounts of foreign medics, Doctors, Surgeons, and the Aid Workers working in a humanitarian capacity in the very hospitals being bombed, snipers shooting patients and staff through windows. Children being treated for bullet wounds, losing limbs and undergoing surgery in the most inhumane conditions.
Listen to the account of Tom Fletcher talking on the R4 Today program last Friday. 
 

“Between 2007 and 2011, Fletcher was the foreign policy and Northern Ireland adviser to Prime Ministers Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron.^[1] In his memoirs, Gordon Brown called him "indispensable and indefatigable."^[8] In his book For the Record, David Cameron wrote: "There was one man who would prove essential: Tom Fletcher. Tom became my support, sounding board and source of information about virtually every country on Earth".^[9]”

 

^{As I’ve previously mentioned, I have family and friends working in Gaza who have told me exactly these stories and many more, too horrific to mention here.} 
 

Edited 10 February by jgtuk

[FoxyPV]

2 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Israel and Palestine are pretty much as bad as each other.

 

No one comes out smelling of rose.

 

Of all the terrible takes, this is the worst.

 

This is genocide apology

[Daggers]

Fvck Israel.

 

Fvck Israel up the arse.

 

You can whine about the atrocities committed by a group - that doesn't mitigate the genocide committed by the nation vying to obliterate a nation or the thousands of tons of bombs landed on women and children.

 

"Oh but something about the non recognition of the Israeli state"

 

No. Go back. Sit down. Shut the fvck up.

 

Let's try again to see if you get it from first principles...

 

Fvck Israel.

 

Fvck Israel up the arse.