What do you make of England’s performance in the World Cup?

[foxfanazer]

Made hard work of the easier games and then had nothing about us against better opposition. Same old story

[Samilktray]

Second best team at the tournament, shot ourselves in the foot in the semis. 8/10 

[AKCJ]

15 minutes away from a World Cup final and you could argue that we'd have got there if Tuchel kept his nerve.

[Trav Le Bleu]

17 hours ago, Finnegan said:

You were a managerial brain fart away from being deserved finalists. You've done well but I imagine you're left hoping Tuchel learns from the mistake. Or even acknowledges he made one in the first place. 

 

 

Are you well? Would you like me to call a doctor?

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Are you well? Would you like me to call a doctor?

 

I think @Izzy will agree you were by far the best team in the tournament, should have won it by miles and really you just bottled it. 

 

[Samilktray]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

I think @Izzy will agree you were by far the best team in the tournament, should have won it by miles and really you just bottled it. 

 

Agreed

[Trav Le Bleu]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I think @Izzy will agree you were by far the best team in the tournament, should have won it by miles and really you just bottled it. 

 

NURSE!

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

NURSE!

 

I've always just been a very open minded, objective person with no real entrenched bias. It's why I'm the most reliable poster on this forum when it comes to judging England in all their sports. 

 

[AyewJoking]

As expected, had some enjoyable victories, made a meal of getting really close before bottling it.

 

FA will be delighted with a 3rd place finish but for tired England fans, it's same old.

 

I'm not ungrateful but with players earning millions you either win the tournament or fail

[Tommy G]

Team 8/10

Manager 5/10

[indierich06]

I do feel quite sorry the England players because, due to the fact the tournaments only come once every two years, expectation is so high. If a Premier League club had a run of getting to the semi-finals of the FA Cup or the finals or the quarter-finals a few seasons in a row, or were challenging for the league most seasons, I think most fans would be reasonably happy with that to be honest. But because we have to wait so long for each tournament and all the games are compressed into a very short space of time, the pressure is infinitely higher than in club football. A third-place finish is more than we could have dreamed of even ten years ago, probably even under the "golden generation" - but because we haven't won it, it's automatically put down as a failure. On the other hand I can see why fans are disappointed given the nature of Tuchel's tactics during the Argentina match - I think England fans will always support the team as long as they're seen to be giving 100% and playing football the "right" way. Throwing on defenders instead of going down swinging was probably the fatal error this time round. I think Tuchel is probably the wrong man for the job - he's been all too willing to seemingly throw players under the bus to cover for his own deficiencies in this tournament - the prime example of him refusing to accept that his defensive tactics were what led to the Argentina resurgence in the semi-final match, and instead blaming the English mentality.

 

The FA has invested so much money over the past few years in improving the standard of academies and young player development and coaching throughout the country but one thing I feel they don't invest enough in is the improvement of English coaches. I feel like we should have a pipeline of young English candidates ready to come through and manage the national team. Instead it feels that we're scrabbling around for options. The English managers that we have available to us don't seem to be that suited to the role (i.e. Gareth Southgate) and the international coaches we tend to go for are never that impressive. If you look at Tuchel and Southgate, you can't really say that either of these coaches have a winning mentality. It does seem like Pep Guardiola was the first choice ahead of Tuchel after Southgate left the role. If the FA are serious about challenging for trophies in the short term, I would really go all out to try and tempt Guardiola into the role again. In the long term, I would love to see a proper coaching programme designed at creating elite English managers - what that looks like, I don't know.

[Finnegan]

Mods I'm being bullied. This @Izzy is following me round the forum laughing at things that aren't funny 

[CosbehFox]

Incredibly weird 

 

No real hype or feeling around the team. Clearly Tuchel didn't think we performed at all. But throw in your best performance away from home potentially all time and some cracking highs alongside some utter shite. Hard to put your finger. 

[Chris_OGrady]

Before the tournament, I thought France and Spain were the best two teams and then we were in the next group behind with Argentina, Portugal (maybe Brazil), so coming 3rd was pretty good going. 

 

We never looked particularly great, but there were a few good performances- Croatia, Mexico and Congo. I think people gave us more credit than we deserved in the Argentina game. Yes we did okay in the first 55 minutes, but we hardly created anything. 

 

It's a definite improvement on 2 years ago (no good performances despite getting to the final). I still think we're a few players short. A top quality winger, holding midfielder, and centre back. 

[brookfox]

So near yet so far.

[st albans fox]

We finished where we should 

missed opportunity though, given the side of the draw we were on and Argentina aren’t the team they were four years ago 

 

 

[Nalis]

An obvious what might have been in the semis but I think you lot should look back at it as largely positive to finish 3rd and get some pride back against France even if had a friendly feel. You were 3rd or 4th favourites and probably would have been beaten by Spain in the final anyway.

 

You have to remember there are so many major countries who fell way below their own expectations like Germany, Brazil, Portugal and the Netherlands. 

 

The counterpoint is the feeling you need a trophy to show for all the decent tournament progress you've had in the past 8 years.

[Dames]

I personally don’t think the team hit the highs it could have done bar the Croatia game. 
 

That being said it was a good tournament for us and even at our floor we finished 3rd. 

 

I also think there has been a HUGE overreaction to the manager in the wake of the Argentina game, football fans are famously emotional rather than rational but even this has gone too far. Firstly the starting 11 picked matched Argentina and took the lead and were overall probably the better side slightly. A plus for the manager. I dont see how it is the managers fault that the minute England took the lead the players forgot how to pass the ball or control it. The age old English mentality of being scared to lose settled in and once it settled in it was terminal. Tuchel was right about retaining possession ‘not being in our DNA’. If anyone has played at any level during their youth they’ll remember that mistakes are frowned upon and are punished by managers. Fully grown men screaming at kids to clear the ball, ‘get it out’ and ‘dont piss about with it’. Those earliest lessons stick with you the longest and it was completely on show against Argentina where the English players completely fearful of losing or making a mistake just resorted to hitting the ball anywhere away from the box. 
 

What does the manager do in this situation? If he brings on an attacking player they are going to get crippled by this same fear? Chasing long hopeless balls into the middle of nowhere for 5 minutes before dropping back into the low block themselves. He gave them until the hydration break, tried to talk some sense into them and it didnt work so instead of banging his head against the wall he decided to help the players out and shore up the defence. It worked against Mexico and the only way forward we had was leaning into that backs against the wall mentality because does anyone really think that Kobbie Mainoo would have come on and instantly calmed 10 other players down and taken complete control of the game? Be serious. In hindsight going so defensive was probably a bad decision but the options were severely limited. The players had completely regressed and there was no helping it, not even Pep could have fixed that and those calling for Tuchels head are ridiculous. 
 

Again in hindsight the only mistake Tuchel made was not bringing wingers on but until the France game had any of Saka, Rashford or Madueke shown any consistency or ability to completely change the momentum of a game? Not really. On the other hand Dan Burn, Konsa etc had shown resilience and the ability to close games out. Tuchel isnt without fault but this reaction is blown out of proportion and fans are reluctant to blame players because or their prior ‘heroics’ in the tournament and likely a little racism comes into play too. 
 

When the pressure was off against France you could see the vision Tuchel had all tournament its just a shame that English players can only perform when they dont have that crippling fear of failure hanging over them and until thats changed and theres a real overhaul at youth and grassroots level, we will have the same issues we’ve had for 60 years. 

[Dames]

One other thing we have to account for in the Argentina game is that the ref was a huge Messi fanboy, its not an overall excuse but the modern game needs to adjust to these new cults that form around players rather than teams. In old terms the referee for that match would have essentially been a Leicester fan refereeing a Leicester game in an FA Cup semi final. You’d like to think a professional would remain professional but those unconscious biases are going to creep in especially when you’re sharing the pitch with your hero. This was evident when the Argentinians got away with foul after foul and had absolutely 0 VAR interventions against them all tournament. When you’re playing against that level of bias it affects you and again, what can the manager do in that situation? 
 

As an aside once everyone is clear and away from America UEFA need to have a strong response. 

[Lionator]

To be fair Spain would’ve probably taken us apart in that final if we’d have got there but it would’ve been nice to have the chance. Italy 2021 really was the one wasn’t it  

[foxfanazer]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

One other thing we have to account for in the Argentina game is that the ref was a huge Messi fanboy, its not an overall excuse but the modern game needs to adjust to these new cults that form around players rather than teams. In old terms the referee for that match would have essentially been a Leicester fan refereeing a Leicester game in an FA Cup semi final. You’d like to think a professional would remain professional but those unconscious biases are going to creep in especially when you’re sharing the pitch with your hero. This was evident when the Argentinians got away with foul after foul and had absolutely 0 VAR interventions against them all tournament. When you’re playing against that level of bias it affects you and again, what can the manager do in that situation? 
 

As an aside once everyone is clear and away from America UEFA need to have a strong response. 

It's always somebody else's fault when it comes to England's failures

[Dames]

43 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

It's always somebody else's fault when it comes to England's failures

If you read my post before it, it definitely does not blame anyone else but English football.

 

However lets not turn a blind eye to the blatant favouritism the Argentinians have got throughout the tournament against every opponent because of FIFAs devotion to Lionel Messi.  

[ramboacdc]

You have to make a major **** up to get tagged as a bad England manager. Not qualify, out at group stage, lose to a team named after a supermarket etc etc. 

Tuchel's football looked good in bursts and people will hold on to that and forget such shite as:

0-0 against a team with Jordan Ayew up top

Taking 65 mins to break a team down Panama. 

Being 15 minutes away from Congo taking us out after some bad defending and Goalkeeping

Man marking Haaland out the game, only to allow that other one to score. More poor Goalkeeping imo.
Argentina. Enough said there. 


When we are talking of highlights being in bursts such as 2nd half against Croatia or 2nd quarter against Mexico it shows that you have to really cock up to be punted out.  

 

Southgate I will always stand by wasn't a good manager. He was a defensive manager who didn't dare attack and had a very fortunate couple of runs in tournaments and when it came to decent opposition, he choked it. Tuchel came in and said we were always too afraid to go out and he would fix that, then had 6 defenders on at 70 mins and let Messi run the right wing. 

 

If it isn't clear, I don't rate Pickford and think his England time needs to be over. There is a reason he is at Everton and the bigger clubs aren't ever interested and he ain't staying out of loyalty. People mistake passion for talent sometimes. He likes to pull funny faces and shout and make a godly save from time to time, but he isn't that good. 

This isn't a golden generation like the 06 lot were, but this felt the best time you are going to get Kane and Bellingham working together. Rashford seemed to be trying to put himself in the shop window more than play as a team sometimes. A few times he could have been a better team mate but instead went for it and lost it. Saka people are saying should have played against Argentina as he then scored 3 against France, but he was part of the problem in the wings too before that. 

 

 

Southgate was lucky in his runs to get teams on their way dowwn the rankings or low ranked teams. Tuchel got lucky and had Kane and Bellingham bail him out much like Messi did Argentina. He will lead us into the Euro's unless he finds a way to put us in danger of not winning our qualifying group for Euro 2028 or having to rely on the UEFA safety net to get us in. 
 

[MC Prussian]

On the whole, very good.

 

Obviously, Tuchel's tactics against Argentina will forever be studied and examined.

Creates a whole "what if" scenario. I think England would've given Spain a better game than Argentina. I guess, every other side would have.

 

England played some great football, entertained everybody with the match for 3rd place.

 

Euro 2028 is just around the corner. I'd put England as a favourite to win it.

But the team needs more leaders, more personalities.

[OntarioFox]

I enjoyed it a lot in truth. I also think the dogpile on Tuchel is incredibly knee-jerk - he was getting high praise days before for getting us through the Mexico and Norway games with good managerial decisions, especially in the latter where he said himself that individual levels were below standard. He screwed up, no getting away from it, but to call for his head is madness to me - when we got going that was the most enjoyable England have been to watch in my lifetime - Croatia and Mexico both brilliant performances.

 

Proud of the team, the fact they're starting to win admirers from outside these shores shouldn't be understated - yes it's masked somewhat by everyone on the planet hating Argentina, but I don't know a time in my life where the consensus on England was anything but a bunch of underacheiving primadonnas supported by violent lobster-red pissheads. It's quite a nice feeling, especially with the English identity within our country under siege from exactly that group of insufferable bellends right now. 

Pretty proud of 'em and of my country right now, hope it continues.