ealingfox Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 Are we in a crisis with our core sports in England? The Brazil debacle last year and now this. Havent won the 6 Nations for a while and there's a solid chance we'll be dismissed at the group stage in the Rugby WC too.
Guest Col city fan Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 Are we in a crisis with our core sports in England? The Brazil debacle last year and now this. Havent won the 6 Nations for a while and there's a solid chance we'll be dismissed at the group stage in the Rugby WC too. In a nutshell..yes we areDon't let people dismiss it with yet more excuses. This nation is losing its sporting 'fighting spirit'. This was incredibly apparent after the Brazil world cup where so many were so quick to paper it over with 'we weren't expected to do well anyway'. Shameful attitude.
RonnieTodger Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 Genuinely the most embarrassing World Cup in English sporting history. Ireland must be pissing themselves at Morgan.
Mike Oxlong Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 At least we have the county season to look forward to .......
Captain... Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 Morgan replacing Cook was such an odd decision, you stick with Cook despite him clearly not being a one day batsman let alone captain, he is a test player through and through he should have been given the winter off instead of being messed around. Morgan to replace him despite not even being able to get into the a one day side struggling for runs. He's been poor for a while now, the only thinking behind it could be if it works, great if it fails he will never play again and someone like Root won't have to bear the scars of failure. Overhaul needed, in attitude rather than personnel we approach them like they are short test matches rather than ODIs we have test bowlers who don't have the variations and test batters who think a run a ball 50 is the pinnacle of batting. Just frustrating, but at least it is over now and we can start to rebuild.
Mark 'expert' Lawrenson Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 Too much emphasis on not losing wickets, 1 day cricket has moved on, years ago 270ish would of been a decent score in 50 over cricket, it's as if we are stuck in a time warp, now it's 350 + and yet we still plod along thinking 5 runs an over is good going, far too many dot balls when we are batting and whatever happened to bowling swinging Yorkers instead of the short pitched rubbish we dish up to the opposition batters. I worry that County Cricket will yet again be blamed for the failure of the England team, the old too many counties argument will rear its ugly head again, yet the Irish team prosper and they ply their trade in the County game.
GaelicFox Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 Ireland officially a better cricketing one day nation than England ha ha ha .....KP has to come back , Broad can go take a shower !!!
Aus Fox Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 A complete make over and now. Starting right at the top and filtering down. We need 3 seperate teams, one for tests, one for one Dayers and one for twenty20. None of this bollocks he's a good test player, let's play him in every form of the game....Cook,Ballance,etc. Get real specialists in the squads. A change in coaching and attitude, be flexible with the batting order, a captain/ coach who knows when to attack. Come on we need to be better than this, but the ECB just like the FA needs overhauling first to many people in English Sport at the highest level still living 20 years ago.
Hirsty The Blue 94 Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 We just play one day cricket the wrong way. No point in scoring at 8 an over for the first and last 10 overs if you only go at 4 an over in the middle 30. If everyone can see it then how the hell can't the management?
fuchsntf Posted 9 March 2015 Posted 9 March 2015 We are over coached if anything, look at Finn over the last 18 months he was nearly coached out of cricket entirely. There's also too much emphasis on stats, probably brought in by Fletcher and Flower. They can all play, pick the best ODI players and let them play, it's really not rocket science. top post,this has been Englands problem for years, Anderson, Finn top examples. Plus English team players in all sports, just dont have the nous, imagination, or even balls, to try to be different. This cricket team are our best players,we have some great young potential, but playing without fear as been coached out of them.Plus like city, and english rugbyteam keep making exactly the same mistakes, leads to one word..S.t.u.p.i.d. Though lets be honest, even before, during and after the botham, Willis era, our players have continuously shown total lack of individual thought or imagination, across the whole spectrum of team sport.Talent is there its the rest they are lacking. In 50 years the moranic coaching is draconian.
Donut Posted 10 March 2015 Posted 10 March 2015 No big players. No power hitting batsmen who can clear the rope and dominate early ala McCullum, Gayle when he is on song with Buttler coming way down the order. No genuine spin option, just part time tick over bowlers. No strike bowlers who can bowl with flat out pace and make things happen with variations. A weak bowling attack when not in swing conditions. Scoring at slow strike rates.
Crinklyfox Posted 10 March 2015 Posted 10 March 2015 I love Test cricket and the county game is its roots so I wouldn't want to see it totally dismantled. However worldwide the 20/20 and one-day games attract the most interest from the public. Cricket is in the business of providing entertainment so either England embraces this and moves forward or we remain in the second division of cricketing nations. Countries like India and Australia have times in their season dedicated to the shorter formats of the game, there is great national public interest and teams are comprised of the cream of the world's talent. The participants in these tournaments become competent and expert in their execution, including the coaching and management. There is a perceptible difference in attitude from the players. If we are not to suffer further disappointment I feel that we must overhaul the county season and potentially the structure of the teams in order to provide a similar format in the UK; getting some talent in from other countries whose cricketing season does not clash with ours would also not come amiss.
Aus Fox Posted 10 March 2015 Posted 10 March 2015 First thing I got told when I rocked up for work this morning "Don't worry you're still the second best cricket side in Europe"
surrifox Posted 10 March 2015 Posted 10 March 2015 The one good thing to come out of this debacle is that Piers Morgan is most upset. another f*****g Morgan!
leicsmac Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 Interesting debate on the BBC website around the makeup of a theoretical British and Irish Lions-style ODI cricket team. How many out the Scotland and Ireland team would you include in there based on performances here? Coetzer, O'Brien and Joyce have to be decent shouts, as is Balbirnie and possibly Dockrell for an additional spin option. Bowling would probably be mostly English but there are several batsmen who seem in better nick than their English counterparts.
leicsmac Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 Malingas bowling continues to annoy me. It's not a legitimate cricket delivery, simple as, yet the powers that be saw fit to bend the rules so that it was.
CKB Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 Malingas bowling continues to annoy me. It's not a legitimate cricket delivery, simple as, yet the powers that be saw fit to bend the rules so that it was. He's a chucker & always will be one in my eyes
Guest MattP Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 Too much emphasis on not losing wickets, 1 day cricket has moved on, years ago 270ish would of been a decent score in 50 over cricket, it's as if we are stuck in a time warp, now it's 350 + and yet we still plod along thinking 5 runs an over is good going, far too many dot balls when we are batting and whatever happened to bowling swinging Yorkers instead of the short pitched rubbish we dish up to the opposition batters. I worry that County Cricket will yet again be blamed for the failure of the England team, the old too many counties argument will rear its ugly head again, yet the Irish team prosper and they ply their trade in the County game. Great post, we're hearing a lot of myths at theminute about county cricket, not being aggressive enough, too nice etc etc - fact it boils down to is we have the wrong players with the wrong managers playing the wrong style of cricket to win ODI's in this day and age. Interesting debate on the BBC website around the makeup of a theoretical British and Irish Lions-style ODI cricket team. How many out the Scotland and Ireland team would you include in there based on performances here? Coetzer, O'Brien and Joyce have to be decent shouts, as is Balbirnie and possibly Dockrell for an additional spin option. Bowling would probably be mostly English but there are several batsmen who seem in better nick than their English counterparts. In all reality, none of them would. Most of the Irish side don't get in their county sides every week - Joyce was given his chance years ago and wasn't good enough. Kevin O' Brien can play the odd decent knock but wasn't wanted by an county side last season. Dockrell at a push might give Tredwell a run for being the spin option. Morgan was the only one really good enough hence why he plays for us. It does show how woeful our players are being coached and performing that we would even consider the idea of county reserves in the England team on the basis of what we have seen over the last few weeks. Ireland have done well but let's not go OTT on them, they've beaten half a Windies team, scrambled to last over victories over the UAE and Zimbabwe and will be going home at the same time as us. Here's my new dynamic England ODI team. Roy Vince Taylor Root © Stokes Buttler Billings Woakes Broad Tredwell Finn The bowling looks pretty poor mind. We don't have much coming through and Broad will probably retire from ODI's.
leicsmac Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 In all reality, none of them would. Most of the Irish side don't get in their county sides every week - Joyce was given his chance years ago and wasn't good enough. Kevin O' Brien can play the odd decent knock but wasn't wanted by an county side last season. Dockrell at a push might give Tredwell a run for being the spin option. Morgan was the only one really good enough hence why he plays for us. It does show how woeful our players are being coached and performing that we would even consider the idea of county reserves in the England team on the basis of what we have seen over the last few weeks. Ireland have done well but let's not go OTT on them, they've beaten half a Windies team, scrambled to last over victories over the UAE and Zimbabwe and will be going home at the same time as us. Here's my new dynamic England ODI team. Roy Vince Taylor Root © Stokes Buttler Billings Woakes Broad Tredwell Finn The bowling looks pretty poor mind. We don't have much coming through and Broad will probably retire from ODI's. I can see your point but based on current form you'd have none of the Irish or Scottish batsmen over their English counterparts? Really?
Guest MattP Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 I can see your point but based on current form you'd have none of the Irish or Scottish batsmen over their English counterparts? Really? Not at all no, form is temporary. None of their players are good enough to play for England, as I say - the vast majority aren't good enough for county cricket. Put Peter Moores in charge of Ireland and Simmons in charge of England and I think we'd see the difference in quality. You can't seriously campaign for Kyle Coetzer as being good enough to play for England surely?
leicsmac Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 Not at all no, form is temporary. None of their players are good enough to play for England, as I say - the vast majority aren't good enough for county cricket. Put Peter Moores in charge of Ireland and Simmons in charge of England and I think we'd see the difference in quality. You can't seriously campaign for Kyle Coetzer as being good enough to play for England surely? Surely current evidence is to the contrary that they're not good enough for county cricket considering in this ODI tournament setting O'Brien, Coetzer et al have outperformed most English batsmen? Though I do agree that form is temporary and consistent good form against good teams from such players would need to be proven. It's perfectly possible that this is just a blip in form on the part of our own batsmen, though given that we've played nothing but ODI's for the last few months - even switched round the Ashes - in order to prepare for this and our players still haven't delivered there is something we're getting seriously wrong and they have done right. You also have a point regarding the coaching.
marko Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 Malingas bowling continues to annoy me. It's not a legitimate cricket delivery, simple as, yet the powers that be saw fit to bend the rules so that it was. I'm afraid you're incorrect. The laws of cricket prevent a bowler from bending his elbow more than 15 degrees during his delivery and there are no restrictions on shoulder/arm position. It's horrible to look at, but his action is completely legal and, when analysed, has one of the smallest degrees of elbow bend.
Guest MattP Posted 11 March 2015 Posted 11 March 2015 Surely current evidence is to the contrary that they're not good enough for county cricket considering in this ODI tournament setting O'Brien, Coetzer et al have outperformed most English batsmen? Though I do agree that form is temporary and consistent good form against good teams from such players would need to be proven. It's perfectly possible that this is just a blip in form on the part of our own batsmen, though given that we've played nothing but ODI's for the last few months - even switched round the Ashes - in order to prepare for this and our players still haven't delivered there is something we're getting seriously wrong and they have done right. You also have a point regarding the coaching. It's 5 games, you can't judge people on five games. This World Cup Coetzer scored a brilliant 156 against Bangladesh, a decent 70 odd v England and then 25 V Afghanistan, 0 v Sri Lanka and 1 v New Zealand. He's decent championship player but there are ten players I'd have ahead of him in the peaking order. KOB has made 0,1, 24, 48 and 50 and averages less than 30 in County Cricket. Our players our nothing special but they are still clearly better than the affiliate nations best batsmen.
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