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Depression

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15 hours ago, TK95 said:

Saw the Alistair Campbell documentary about depression earlier.

 

There was one thing in particular that I'm sure many of us will relate to. He says the one place where he could completely switch off all the negative thoughts was when he went to Turf Moor to watch his team Burnley play. For that period, he will be fully focussed on the game.

 

I feel completely the same about Leicester City. During those 90 mins, I'm completely living the moment, nothing else enters my mind. It's hard to explain why, it's just a passion.

 

The frustrating thing is I guess not being able to channel those same feelings into other walks of life to help us cope better with our mental health.

Haven’t seen the documentary yet, though I’ll definitely get round to it. Stumbled on to this clip on twitter which I thought was very good:

 

He's right about football too. LCFC has brought me out of an extremely deep depression more than once!

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38 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Haven’t seen the documentary yet, though I’ll definitely get round to it. Stumbled on to this clip on twitter which I thought was very good:

 

He's right about football too. LCFC has brought me out of an extremely deep depression more than once!

 

 

 

Just be thankful you didn't witness the Pleat or McLintock eras.

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I had an interesting conversation with someone at work today about mental health and was pretty shocked at how frank he was with me about struggles a member of his family has had. 

 

I’m still struggling to make sense of what I was posting on here about a few weeks ago and treading on egg shells but probably not doing myself any favours in the meantime. 

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11 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And at last we now have an answer to the question: “Who ate all the pies?”

Indeed but, for all we know, that might be a result of his own mental health struggles he may well have himself? :unsure:

Edited by Wymeswold fox

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Heard some sad news today, a friend of my brother in-law killed himself last night. Only 25 you just never know how badly people suffer in silence. 

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Has anyone else struggled with denial in the context of depression?

 

I originally went to a doctor over 18 months ago and said to her that I didn't have depression.

 

I don't know if I did at the time and I think my issue is a temporary one caused in large part by circumstances and in small part by my brain (as opposed to the other way around) but I feel like the doctor accepted every word I said and didn't really ask anything that might've highlighted a deeper lying cause. Everyone is human and makes mistakes but I expect a professional to do this for me in the same way I would interrogate what my clients tell me they want, at least to some extent, anyway.

 

Long story short I thought I was ok because a doctor agreed that I was mostly just stressed (and I was really stressed at the time) but since then I have completed a goal I've held since I was 13/14 and I'm 28 now and I've hit a much lower low. Have I been in denial all this time because I was wrong about what I knew and who I am and in some parts my attitude and approach to life in general? 


I don't know the answer to that question, but I was signed off work for 4 weeks with depression straight off the bat and I am hopefully going to receive counselling courtesy of a charity who help architectural professionals struggling with their mental health. It feels like that's quite serious and the more I read and the more I listen the more I find myself identifying with people, a number of them with long-term clinical depression that they simply live with and learn to deal with. I don't want pills, I can't possibly bear any more numbness inside myself, but maybe they would help. Why didn't I realise this earlier? Where have I been going so wrong? How much of my life, if indeed at all, have I been living with a long term disease?


I can't help but think about how much wiser I could be and ultimately, how much of a better place I could be in and how much more I could've enjoyed my life if I hadn't told myself so many lies. I bottle so much shit up in my head and internalise so much bad shit it's no wonder my own mind made me think the way out was ending it all when it so obviously isn't for anyone with a clear mind.

 

Is this all just part and parcel of what depression does to you? I know no-one can make my decisions for me or evaluate what is happening to me as well as I can (at least from FT anyway) but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who can share in a relatable situation.

 

We are all the same and we are all different - is that the same for your mind as it is your personality? When it comes to people and emotions, I feel like my mind is broken.

Edited by ajthefox
Grammar and more venting.

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Very quick reply. Will try to revisit.

 

Yes to the vast majority.

 

My advice. Dont write off meds. They are my lifesaver. Doesnt work for all, but works wonders for me.

 

You are now doing all the right things, dont beat yourself up.

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4 hours ago, ajthefox said:

Has anyone else struggled with denial in the context of depression?

 

I originally went to a doctor over 18 months ago and said to her that I didn't have depression.

 

I don't know if I did at the time and I think my issue is a temporary one caused in large part by circumstances and in small part by my brain (as opposed to the other way around) but I feel like the doctor accepted every word I said and didn't really ask anything that might've highlighted a deeper lying cause. Everyone is human and makes mistakes but I expect a professional to do this for me in the same way I would interrogate what my clients tell me they want, at least to some extent, anyway.

 

Long story short I thought I was ok because a doctor agreed that I was mostly just stressed (and I was really stressed at the time) but since then I have completed a goal I've held since I was 13/14 and I'm 28 now and I've hit a much lower low. Have I been in denial all this time because I was wrong about what I knew and who I am and in some parts my attitude and approach to life in general? 


I don't know the answer to that question, but I was signed off work for 4 weeks with depression straight off the bat and I am hopefully going to receive counselling courtesy of a charity who help architectural professionals struggling with their mental health. It feels like that's quite serious and the more I read and the more I listen the more I find myself identifying with people, a number of them with long-term clinical depression that they simply live with and learn to deal with. I don't want pills, I can't possibly bear any more numbness inside myself, but maybe they would help. Why didn't I realise this earlier? Where have I been going so wrong? How much of my life, if indeed at all, have I been living with a long term disease?


I can't help but think about how much wiser I could be and ultimately, how much of a better place I could be in and how much more I could've enjoyed my life if I hadn't told myself so many lies. I bottle so much shit up in my head and internalise so much bad shit it's no wonder my own mind made me think the way out was ending it all when it so obviously isn't for anyone with a clear mind.

 

Is this all just part and parcel of what depression does to you? I know no-one can make my decisions for me or evaluate what is happening to me as well as I can (at least from FT anyway) but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who can share in a relatable situation.

 

We are all the same and we are all different - is that the same for your mind as it is your personality? When it comes to people and emotions, I feel like my mind is broken.

We're not always the best judges of our own conditions.  Depression is especially problematic in that it can cause illogical thinking - there's a little voice that says we can't do this, we're no good at that, life will never be good.  Basically all the things we'd never say to a friend who was struggling, that little voice has no problem at all putting us down.  But the voice is wrong, an unbiased person would put things into a more realistic context.

 

Depression is an illness and some of us appear more prone to it than others.  That doesn't mean to say that it's incurable - for most of us what is damaged as a result of illness can be fixed.  And if pills are the first step in beating the illness then it would be sensible to accept them.  After I was diagnosed with depression my first reaction was to tell the GP he was wrong, that I wasn't depressed, but he could see the signs.  He told me that depression caused physiological changes which prevented me feeling as I should, this would make me more depressed, and unless this vicious circle was broken I would not recover.  So I went onto pills for about a month, they didn't make me numb they made me better.  I felt much more able to cope and was certainly in a better mental state to address the root cause of my depression.  After doing that I didn't need to return for more pills, but if I had needed to I would have done so without hesitation.

 

It's valuable to sit back and analyse what could have contributed to your depression and take steps to address issues, counselling can assist that process but I think from your comments that you already have some idea where to start.  You have some time off work, great if work stress is a contributor to your condition but not so good if work is a big part of your life and you get a lot out of it.  The last thing you need is a load of time to sit listening to the little voice without hearing anything else.  You might like to consider doing something that will make you feel good, like completing some task that you've been putting off, or helping others which can raise your self-esteem.

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34 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Heads all over the place at the minute.

Feel free to DM me mate if you want. You might feel better if you just talk it through with someone. We're all here to help each other bud.

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5 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Heads all over the place at the minute.

Ditto. Anxiety’s going ****ing apeshit too. So exhausted from it but just can’t sleep. 

 

Well and truly fed up!

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5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Ditto. Anxiety’s going ****ing apeshit too. So exhausted from it but just can’t sleep. 

 

Well and truly fed up!

Insomnia will only make things worse, you need to sleep.  Zopiclone works for me, not the most restful sleep but at least it gives you some recovery from the previous day which insomnia won't.  Shouldn't be too much trouble getting a GP to prescribe it unless it interferes with any other meds you may be on in which case there are alternatives.

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Some amazing people on here

 

I've been reading for a long time & to anyone suffering, my thoughts go out to you.

 

I've suffered periods of depression for many years, but for whatever reason it appears to have gone to another level.  Up until recently, I may have seen the doctor, I may not have but it always seemed to subside eventually (enough for it not to be a problem).

 

In short.  I had a job I loved.  The money wasn't great but I've never really been motivated by money.  I'm a gardener & even though it was extremely physical work, I got a kick out of it, I was fit as a butchers dog, a decent sun tan, working with some great blokes out & about in the fresh air.......then boom.  Lost my job (through no fault of my own, I might add).  I had always thought about being self-employed but never felt confident enough to take the plunge.  I spent thousands buying a vehicle & equipment.  It went really well & I was working flat out within a few months.  It soon became clear though, that I'm probably not cut out for self-employment.  The problem I have is that I will do anything to help anyone.  I had a price structure, but I couldn't stick to it.  I'm a sucker for a little old lady & I was doing too many favours.  I was working all hours, jobs going around in my head 24/7 & I seemed to be getting little reward.  I never had time to relax & slowly but surely it was killing me.

 

I put up with it for 10 years until my missus was recently diagnosed with MS.  As bad as that sounds, it didn't affect either of us too badly.  The symptoms weren't too bad at that moment & it's not like she'd been given 6 months to live. But it did help me reassess my work/life relationship.  I decided that I would have to be more responsible for her well-being eventually & so I decided to quit self-employment as I knew of a job that was going supervising a grounds maintenance department at parish council for a small town.  It's a 4 day week & I get to spend quality time with the missus.  It seemed perfect. 

 

It's an absolute basket-case.  I know parish councils are sleepy but this is dead.  I've only been there a month, but I'm already looking elsewhere. 

 

And here I am now.   There's other stuff going on that's adding to it & it does feel like there's been a succession of kicks to the bollocks recently.....but this job has tipped me over the edge.  Within a couple of days of starting something changed in me.  I just went plain fvcking mardy.  I was horrible to be around & snappy.

 

Then a week ago it went up a fair new notches.  Since then I've been an emotional wreck.  I've broken down a few times in front of the missus.  My confidence is on it's arse.  I often get this weird sensation like the blood is rushing to the head & chest, I find it difficult to talk, I get emotional & I struggle to breathe properly.  My heads all over the place at a 100mph & I can't finish sentences as I nearly always lose my train of thought.  I'm guessing it's an anxiety attack?  My appetite has disappeared completely & I've lost over a stone in a month.  I do make the effort to eat more now, but it is an effort.  I'm not a big drinker & only at the weekend, but I've knocked that on the head.  The missus' MS is getting progressively worse & there seems little to no support from the health service.  She feels abandoned.  She's in a lot of pain, she's had a few falls & hurt herself.   She's scared & I'm scared for her.  There's the guilt of not supporting her & claiming all the attention.  She has been absolutely brilliant in supporting me.

 

I've been doctors & he diagnosed the lot - panic attack/anxiety/depression.  He's put me on Sertraline so will see.  I've taken Citalopram before - not keen at all.  As low or as anxious as I have got, suicide has never crossed my mind & I do believe it will get better.  My biggest fear is that it appears to be out of my control.  I can see myself all the time & I see how I'm behaving, but I can't do anything about it.  I don't know if I should be on the sick or at work, as I seem to be at my most normal at work & focused on something.  I want to do what's for the best, but I don't trust my own decision making at the moment.

 

I am looking into counselling, but it looks like private is the only option really from what I've seen on here & heard elsewhere.  The cost is a factor though.  What sort of costs are involved & how often are the appointments?  I suppose everyone is different, but looking to get an idea.

 

Thank you for listening & good luck

 

Edited by pSinatra
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1 hour ago, pSinatra said:

Some amazing people on here

 

I've been reading for a long time & to anyone suffering, my thoughts go out to you.

 

I've suffered periods of depression for many years, but for whatever reason it appears to have gone to another level.  Up until recently, I may have seen the doctor, I may not have but it always seemed to subside eventually (enough for it not to be a problem).

 

In short.  I had a job I loved.  The money wasn't great but I've never really been motivated by money.  I'm a gardener & even though it was extremely physical work, I got a kick out of it, I was fit as a butchers dog, a decent sun tan, working with some great blokes out & about in the fresh air.......then boom.  Lost my job (through no fault of my own, I might add).  I had always thought about being self-employed but never felt confident enough to take the plunge.  I spent thousands buying a vehicle & equipment.  It went really well & I was working flat out within a few months.  It soon became clear though, that I'm probably not cut out for self-employment.  The problem I have is that I will do anything to help anyone.  I had a price structure, but I couldn't stick to it.  I'm a sucker for a little old lady & I was doing too many favours.  I was working all hours, jobs going around in my head 24/7 & I seemed to be getting little reward.  I never had time to relax & slowly but surely it was killing me.

 

I put up with it for 10 years until my missus was recently diagnosed with MS.  As bad as that sounds, it didn't affect either of us too badly.  The symptoms weren't too bad at that moment & it's not like she'd been given 6 months to live. But it did help me reassess my work/life relationship.  I decided that I would have to be more responsible for her well-being eventually & so I decided to quit self-employment as I knew of a job that was going supervising a grounds maintenance department at parish council for a small town.  It's a 4 day week & I get to spend quality time with the missus.  It seemed perfect. 

 

It's an absolute basket-case.  I know parish councils are sleepy but this is dead.  I've only been there a month, but I'm already looking elsewhere. 

 

And here I am now.   There's other stuff going on that's adding to it & it does feel like there's been a succession of kicks to the bollocks recently.....but this job has tipped me over the edge.  Within a couple of days of starting something changed in me.  I just went plain fvcking mardy.  I was horrible to be around & snappy.

 

Then a week ago it went up a fair new notches.  Since then I've been an emotional wreck.  I've broken down a few times in front of the missus.  My confidence is on it's arse.  I often get this weird sensation like the blood is rushing to the head & chest, I find it difficult to talk, I get emotional & I struggle to breathe properly.  My heads all over the place at a 100mph & I can't finish sentences as I nearly always lose my train of thought.  I'm guessing it's an anxiety attack?  My appetite has disappeared completely & I've lost over a stone in a month.  I do make the effort to eat more now, but it is an effort.  I'm not a big drinker & only at the weekend, but I've knocked that on the head.  The missus' MS is getting progressively worse & there seems little to no support from the health service.  She feels abandoned.  She's in a lot of pain, she's had a few falls & hurt herself.   She's scared & I'm scared for her.  There's the guilt of not supporting her & claiming all the attention.  She has been absolutely brilliant in supporting me.

 

I've been doctors & he diagnosed the lot - panic attack/anxiety/depression.  He's put me on Sertraline so will see.  I've taken Citalopram before - not keen at all.  As low or as anxious as I have got, suicide has never crossed my mind & I do believe it will get better.  My biggest fear is that it appears to be out of my control.  I can see myself all the time & I see how I'm behaving, but I can't do anything about it.  I don't know if I should be on the sick or at work, as I seem to be at my most normal at work & focused on something.  I want to do what's for the best, but I don't trust my own decision making at the moment.

 

I am looking into counselling, but it looks like private is the only option really from what I've seen on here & heard elsewhere.  The cost is a factor though.  What sort of costs are involved & how often are the appointments?  I suppose everyone is different, but looking to get an idea.

 

Thank you for listening & good luck

 

I'm not really sure I can offer any advice but I just wanted to say well done for sharing mate and I'm sorry to hear you and your wife are both going through a tough time.

 

Sharing it all is the first step and it sounds like you and your wife are working really well together to support each other where you can.

 

Have you looked at support groups at all? There are some available for mental health issues and MS. I imagine these might be helpful for you and your wife for both the MS issues and your mental health too. This could help take some stress off the pair of you and help you deal with your anxiety without having to add any additional strain on your relationship.

 

As Izzy said you can get counselling for about £40 an hour and frequency varies. 

 

Well done for sharing mate and best wishes. Keep us posted.

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5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

I'm sorry to hear you're struggling mate. You've always been one of my favorite posters on FT and I feel I can relate to you as we're of a similar age and have similar interests I think.

 

It sounds like there's a lot going on for you right now and it's difficult to trust your own decision making when your mood is low - I get that. I do admire how you've put your wife and her illness first and I'd like to think I'd have done the same. And I'm sure your wife also wants what's best for you and for you to be happy too. 

 

I also get the whole job and self employment thing. I'm too soft to work for myself really and I do miss the craic and camaraderie of working with others. You mentioned how in your previous job you worked with some great blokes and I wonder if you're also missing that daily friendship and connection in your work?

 

Hopefully the Sertraline will help stabilize your mood and notice how you do believe you'l get better - that's a good sign. Your behavior, feelings and emotions are a result of your thinking and I imagine your thoughts are all over the place at the moment. This is where the counselling can help.

 

Speaking from my own experience, private sessions were about £40 per hour but I know you can pay more than that. I had a session every month but each situation is different and you'll be guided by your therapist.

 

Despite everything you've got going on, you do seem to be taking control of the situation which shows great strength. Coming on here and talking, going to your Doctors and looking at counselling suggests you know yourself well and want to do something to get better.

 

Massive respect and admiration to you mate. You're one of the good guys and I really hope you sort things out.

 

Best of luck and please keep posting on here. Look after yourself.

 

 

Cheers.  I was going to give you a shout out for all your sterling work, but figured it was unfair to single anyone out when there's so many people doing good on here.  

 

It's been simmering away for many years.  I've thought about counselling so many times, but never got round to it or I didn't think it would be for me.  If I had a boil on my arse, I'd be straight down the doctors, but when my brain stops functioning properly, I keep my fingers crossed & hope for the best.  It's something I should have dealt with sooner, but I'm dealing with it now.

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3 hours ago, Izzy said:

 

I'm sorry to hear you're struggling mate. You've always been one of my favorite posters on FT and I feel I can relate to you as we're of a similar age and have similar interests I think.

 

It sounds like there's a lot going on for you right now and it's difficult to trust your own decision making when your mood is low - I get that. I do admire how you've put your wife and her illness first and I'd like to think I'd have done the same. And I'm sure your wife also wants what's best for you and for you to be happy too. 

 

I also get the whole job and self employment thing. I'm too soft to work for myself really and I do miss the craic and camaraderie of working with others. You mentioned how in your previous job you worked with some great blokes and I wonder if you're also missing that daily friendship and connection in your work?

 

Hopefully the Sertraline will help stabilize your mood and notice how you do believe you'l get better - that's a good sign. Your behavior, feelings and emotions are a result of your thinking and I imagine your thoughts are all over the place at the moment. This is where the counselling can help.

 

Speaking from my own experience, private sessions were about £40 per hour but I know you can pay more than that. I had a session every month but each situation is different and you'll be guided by your therapist.

 

Despite everything you've got going on, you do seem to be taking control of the situation which shows great strength. Coming on here and talking, going to your Doctors and looking at counselling suggests you know yourself well and want to do something to get better.

 

Massive respect and admiration to you mate. You're one of the good guys and I really hope you sort things out.

 

Best of luck and please keep posting on here. Look after yourself.

 

Sorry to hear about your circumstances.

 

Izzy has nailed it with counselling advice requested but ive always got on well with the free ones via the gp and you sound in control enough to wait if necessary. Sometimes private is not even an option. £££

 

I am an accountant who also suffers from depression and had similar problems to you with regard to going self employed.

 

My first thoughts on reading your post - Have you thought about giving it another go? Now you have the work life balance choice forced upon you to make hard choices, if you can fix the pricing issue, you can literally work when you want. (within reason obviously)

 

I now use a professional pricing tool and simply do not waver from that.

 

Good time to advertise and quote?, while dipping your toe in the water. Pick and choose when to jack it all in when you manage to get the right job for better money than you believed you could get.

 

Have a look at the link below and see how it fits with what you used to price.

 

I found it on a quick google with this excerpt "Design For Me is a web-based service that helps you get in touch with designers and architects. They suggest a price of around £100 per square metre for a landscaped garden, excluding design/architect fees. Theprice drops to £30 per square metre if you only want planting services and no hard landscaping."

 

 https://job-prices.co.uk/landscape-gardening/

 

Chances are it is far more than you previously charged, but you really can learn the behaviours to get the right price.

 

Dont undervalue yourself, which goes hand in hand with cbt for depression.

 

It wouldnt be too hard to set that into a spreadsheet and test it against past work.

 

Failing that, some people just aren't cut out for a job that's too quiet.

Maybe its just a different job in the same industry. I have a client who is doing well in that industry and growing and i could have a word to see if there are any openings, options. No promises but might be worth a try.

 

Something else to mull over.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

Sorry to hear about your circumstances.

 

Izzy has nailed it with counselling advice requested but ive always got on well with the free ones via the gp and you sound in control enough to wait if necessary. Sometimes private is not even an option. £££

 

I am an accountant who also suffers from depression and had similar problems to you with regard to going self employed.

 

My first thoughts on reading your post - Have you thought about giving it another go? Now you have the work life balance choice forced upon you to make hard choices, if you can fix the pricing issue, you can literally work when you want. (within reason obviously)

 

I now use a professional pricing tool and simply do not waver from that.

 

Good time to advertise and quote?, while dipping your toe in the water. Pick and choose when to jack it all in when you manage to get the right job for better money than you believed you could get.

 

Have a look at the link below and see how it fits with what you used to price.

 

I found it on a quick google with this excerpt "Design For Me is a web-based service that helps you get in touch with designers and architects. They suggest a price of around £100 per square metre for a landscaped garden, excluding design/architect fees. Theprice drops to £30 per square metre if you only want planting services and no hard landscaping."

 

 https://job-prices.co.uk/landscape-gardening/

 

Chances are it is far more than you previously charged, but you really can learn the behaviours to get the right price.

 

Dont undervalue yourself, which goes hand in hand with cbt for depression.

 

It wouldnt be too hard to set that into a spreadsheet and test it against past work.

 

Failing that, some people just aren't cut out for a job that's too quiet.

Maybe its just a different job in the same industry. I have a client who is doing well in that industry and growing and i could have a word to see if there are any openings, options. No promises but might be worth a try.

 

Something else to mull over.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the info.  I'm considering all options at the moment & I'm not counting out anything.  Going back to self-employment is an option.  I learnt a lot the first time.  It started on unsteady footings & I never really had it fully under control.  I felt like I needed stop what I was doing, take a few weeks off, sort my shit out & go again.  Was never going to happen.  Nearly all my work was word of mouth, so once I deviated from the pricing structure, I was screwed.

 

I'm fortunate really, that I work in an industry that is usually crying out for qualified people in a sea of unqualified people. But thank you for all the information.  You are right in everything you say.

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