Honesty.

[Captain...]

I've changed my mind, there was contact, Ogbonna puts his hand on Vardy and pulls him towards him. Vardy then tries to make the most of the contact, but there was contact. Not enough for a penalty, but not a dive and not a booking

[shen]

I've changed my mind, there was contact, Ogbonna puts his hand on Vardy and pulls him towards him. Vardy then tries to make the most of the contact, but there was contact. Not enough for a penalty, but not a dive and not a booking

 

Vardy seeks the contact. It is not Ogbonna's tug that forces him over, that would mean Vardy's upper body would have leaned in after it actually did. It was conscious by Vardy and he was trying to be clever, but this time it backfired.

[shen]

These views of two incidents seem to contradict themselves.

 

With the Vardy one they suggest it was correct because Vardy tried to con the ref by making more of it than it was. Yet in Reid one despite saying

 that Reid made the made the most of it that was ok, surely that is no different to the Vardy simulation. 

 

Agreed, it's biased to say one is and one isn't. They're both as bad as eachother. Difference is Morgan and Huth we're 'warned' prior to the pen. I don't know why they were though, as West Ham's players were just as guilty of holding, tugging and shoving.

[Fox 4 Life]

To be honest there was contact but Vardy's ridiculous swan dive is the reason he went. Your on a yellow why do it. The first one wasn't a booking but if he just goes down naturally it's probably a pen or goal kick with no second yellow

[Merging Cultures]

Vardy seeks the contact. It is not Ogbonna's tug that forces him over, that would mean Vardy's upper body would have leaned in after it actually did. It was conscious by Vardy and he was trying to be clever, but this time it backfired.

There was already contact. Ogbonna was impeding his run by having his hand on him. You can't do that. It was a foul and Ogbonna should have been penalised.

The reason why Vardy then moved closer to him can be debated. It was either a. Because he was being slowed down on that side, pulling him into Ogbonna's path, b. Because Vardy was looking to capitalise on the fact he was being fouled by Ogbonna, or c. A bit of both.

I'd say c. As we know, Ogbonna fouled him first by grabbing him, this would have slowed him down and pulled him into him, even if just a fraction, which would have caused the legs to clash. Vardy then just looked to capitalise on being fouled, as he should have done.

If our defender put a hand on a striker who just knocked the ball past him, and got away with it, we'd start a thread saying we are worried about them being sent off in CL football.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

These views of two incidents seem to contradict themselves.

 

With the Vardy one they suggest it was correct because Vardy tried to con the ref by making more of it than it was. Yet in Reid one despite saying

 that Reid made the made the most of it that was ok, surely that is no different to the Vardy simulation.

Key difference Davie G - Vardy dived before meaningful contact... Reid went over after Morgan had two arms around his waste.

[Great Boos Up]

How many players will be changing their PFA Player of the Year vote over this?

[Stevosevic]

How many players will be changing their PFA Player of the Year vote over this?

A lot. That goal, maybe getting on the score sheet again and us getting 3 points probably would have sealed it for him tbh.

[davieG]

Key difference Davie G - Vardy dived before meaningful contact... Reid went over after Morgan had two arms around his waste.

Sorry I don't see any significant difference, Reid was being pulled back, which happens all the while and Reid threw himself forward, Vardy was held there was a tangle of legs and Vardy threw himself forwards.

 

Any difference is minimal and not sufficient to make a difference to the outcome.

 

They are either both penalties through the initial contact or they are both simulation.

How many players will be changing their PFA Player of the Year vote over this?

Haven't they already voted?

[ajthefox]

I can see why people don't think it was a yellow, but there's no way in hell that we should've had a pen for the Vardy incident. Anyone who thinks its a pen has some very heavily blue tinted specs on.

[jammie82uk]

It's seems even former referees are as split as we are on here

Ref Watch: Dermot Gallagher says late Leicester penalty was incorrectly awarded

Referee Jon Moss was at the heart of several controversial moments in Leicester's thrilling 2-2 draw with West Ham on Super Sunday.

And former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher joined us on Sky Sports News HQ on Monday morning to review the incidents in his regular Ref Watch feature.

Should Jamie Vardy have been sent off? Should he receive an extended ban? And what about those late penalty shouts? Read on for the expert verdict...

INCIDENT: Jamie Vardy receives a yellow card in the 28th minute for a lunge on Cheikhou Kouyate, despite not appearing to make contact with the West Ham player.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: The ref has penalised him for persistent misconduct.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "In isolation, it's not a yellow card, but what's happened is he has spoken to him just before. Vardy had committed two fouls just prior and if you watch the tape, the referee goes to Vardy privately and says to him 'I'm going to have to book you if you continue'. For the next tackle, he takes action against him.

"The mistake the referee has made is that he has spoken to him in private, but if you're looking to yellow card a player for persistent misconduct on the next tackle, he really needs to make it public to everybody so the whole 30,000 crowd knew. His problem was he didn't. If you look at the tackle in isolation, you'd say it's not a yellow card, but in the bigger scheme of things, it is. The referee's mistake was that he didn't sell it to everybody. Vardy didn't touch him with the challenge, but caught him with the follow-through and at that point, he has decided to yellow card him."

INCIDENT: Vardy receives a second yellow card for simulation and is sent off, after tumbling in the penalty area under a challenge from Angelo Ogbonna.

Vardy was given a second yellow card for simulation

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It's definitely a dive for me. The law says 'acting to try and deceive the referee' and there's no doubt in my mind he's trying to win a penalty there. I don't think he is fouled. He initiates the contact and goes into the player, then bounces off him. Somebody said to me he had been given a pull, but if you're pulled back, you don't go flying through the air. I think that sold it to the referee.

"The referee has to make a choice: has he tried to deceive me to win a penalty? We look back now and it's not really about that decision. It's about the first yellow card, because that has impacted so heavily on the second one."

INCIDENT: Vardy reacts angrily to his red card, but could he face an extended ban for pointing his finger and shouting at the referee?

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: It depends what was said.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It depends on what Jamie has said to the referee and if it was offensive, insulting or abusive. As such, he could be facing down the barrel of a further charge. It happened quickly and he was angry, but we don't know what was said. Only Jon Moss knows that, and that's what will follow through. Is it offensive? Is it insulting? Is it abusive? It all hinges on that."

INCIDENT: West Ham are awarded a penalty in the 84th minute when Wes Morgan is penalised for holding onto Winston Reid.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "I think he has got to give it and the reason is because he has made such a big point just beforehand with both Morgan and Huth, saying 'I'm watching you'.

"It's quite perverse to be sat here today. One of the things we've talked about over and over again is everybody wanting referees to be more proactive and to give more penalties - but when suddenly a referee gives a penalty, we don't like it. It's a double jeopardy."

INCIDENT: In the 90th minute, Robert Huth goes down in the penalty area after being held by Ogbonna. It looks similar to West Ham's penalty, but the referee doesn't award a spot kick.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It's what he sees. I think he sees Huth foul as well. When the ball comes in, Ulloa had his arm on somebody and there's so much going on in the game, it was unbelievable. Both penalty areas were littered with people pushing and shoving and I think there comes a point where the referee has got to step in. When he stepped in, he pulled out Huth and Morgan and said 'I have got to do you for the next one'.

"I can 100% see the frustration of the fans, but I can also understand why it's so difficult for the referee because he's got to pick the right one."

INCIDENT: Five minutes into injury time, Jeff Schlupp goes down under slight contact from Andy Carroll and this time, Jon Moss does point to the spot to give Leicester the chance to snatch a late draw.

Watch the moment Leicester were awarded an injury-time penalty and make up your own mind

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Wrong decision.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It's not a penalty. One thing I am is consistent. I sat here last week and watched Damien Delaney go into Matt Jarvis and I said it wasn't a penalty - and this one is nowhere near. Carroll has been strong, his arm is by his side and Schlupp has seen him coming and knows there's going to be contact. It's what I'd call 'a coming-together' and the minute he has touched him, he has gone down."

[Guest ttfn]

It's seems even former referees are as split as we are on here

Ref Watch: Dermot Gallagher says late Leicester penalty was incorrectly awarded

Referee Jon Moss was at the heart of several controversial moments in Leicester's thrilling 2-2 draw with West Ham on Super Sunday.

And former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher joined us on Sky Sports News HQ on Monday morning to review the incidents in his regular Ref Watch feature.

Should Jamie Vardy have been sent off? Should he receive an extended ban? And what about those late penalty shouts? Read on for the expert verdict...

INCIDENT: Jamie Vardy receives a yellow card in the 28th minute for a lunge on Cheikhou Kouyate, despite not appearing to make contact with the West Ham player.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: The ref has penalised him for persistent misconduct.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "In isolation, it's not a yellow card, but what's happened is he has spoken to him just before. Vardy had committed two fouls just prior and if you watch the tape, the referee goes to Vardy privately and says to him 'I'm going to have to book you if you continue'. For the next tackle, he takes action against him.

"The mistake the referee has made is that he has spoken to him in private, but if you're looking to yellow card a player for persistent misconduct on the next tackle, he really needs to make it public to everybody so the whole 30,000 crowd knew. His problem was he didn't. If you look at the tackle in isolation, you'd say it's not a yellow card, but in the bigger scheme of things, it is. The referee's mistake was that he didn't sell it to everybody. Vardy didn't touch him with the challenge, but caught him with the follow-through and at that point, he has decided to yellow card him."

INCIDENT: Vardy receives a second yellow card for simulation and is sent off, after tumbling in the penalty area under a challenge from Angelo Ogbonna.

Vardy was given a second yellow card for simulation

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It's definitely a dive for me. The law says 'acting to try and deceive the referee' and there's no doubt in my mind he's trying to win a penalty there. I don't think he is fouled. He initiates the contact and goes into the player, then bounces off him. Somebody said to me he had been given a pull, but if you're pulled back, you don't go flying through the air. I think that sold it to the referee.

"The referee has to make a choice: has he tried to deceive me to win a penalty? We look back now and it's not really about that decision. It's about the first yellow card, because that has impacted so heavily on the second one."

INCIDENT: Vardy reacts angrily to his red card, but could he face an extended ban for pointing his finger and shouting at the referee?

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: It depends what was said.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It depends on what Jamie has said to the referee and if it was offensive, insulting or abusive. As such, he could be facing down the barrel of a further charge. It happened quickly and he was angry, but we don't know what was said. Only Jon Moss knows that, and that's what will follow through. Is it offensive? Is it insulting? Is it abusive? It all hinges on that."

INCIDENT: West Ham are awarded a penalty in the 84th minute when Wes Morgan is penalised for holding onto Winston Reid.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "I think he has got to give it and the reason is because he has made such a big point just beforehand with both Morgan and Huth, saying 'I'm watching you'.

"It's quite perverse to be sat here today. One of the things we've talked about over and over again is everybody wanting referees to be more proactive and to give more penalties - but when suddenly a referee gives a penalty, we don't like it. It's a double jeopardy."

INCIDENT: In the 90th minute, Robert Huth goes down in the penalty area after being held by Ogbonna. It looks similar to West Ham's penalty, but the referee doesn't award a spot kick.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It's what he sees. I think he sees Huth foul as well. When the ball comes in, Ulloa had his arm on somebody and there's so much going on in the game, it was unbelievable. Both penalty areas were littered with people pushing and shoving and I think there comes a point where the referee has got to step in. When he stepped in, he pulled out Huth and Morgan and said 'I have got to do you for the next one'.

"I can 100% see the frustration of the fans, but I can also understand why it's so difficult for the referee because he's got to pick the right one."

INCIDENT: Five minutes into injury time, Jeff Schlupp goes down under slight contact from Andy Carroll and this time, Jon Moss does point to the spot to give Leicester the chance to snatch a late draw.

Watch the moment Leicester were awarded an injury-time penalty and make up your own mind

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Wrong decision.

GALLAGHER SAYS: "It's not a penalty. One thing I am is consistent. I sat here last week and watched Damien Delaney go into Matt Jarvis and I said it wasn't a penalty - and this one is nowhere near. Carroll has been strong, his arm is by his side and Schlupp has seen him coming and knows there's going to be contact. It's what I'd call 'a coming-together' and the minute he has touched him, he has gone down."

Insanity.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Gallegher has nailed it in my mind.

[oohaahmustafa]

Some people's spectacles are tinted that blue I'm surprised they can see where their going

[Dickov22]

I love Vardy, but he cheated

[Tom17LCFC]

What on earth is Gallagher on about 'you have to give the right one'. You either give them or you don't. You can't pick and choose which fouls you give. I can just about accept vardy's second yellow, but the inconsistency in every other aspect of yesterday's game is what's riled so many.

[purpleronnie]

Some people's spectacles are tinted that blue I'm surprised they can see where their going

True, he dived get over it. 

 

Our pen was soft so was theirs. 

 

Vardys booking wasn't right but he got away with an earlier challenge. 

 

Anyone would think we were terribly hard done by. 

 

Let's not play the victim.  If another clubs fans were reacting like some on here we'd be mocking them.

[Mark_w]

INCIDENT: West Ham are awarded a penalty in the 84th minute when Wes Morgan is penalised for holding onto Winston Reid.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision.

INCIDENT: In the 90th minute, Robert Huth goes down in the penalty area after being held by Ogbonna. It looks similar to West Ham's penalty, but the referee doesn't award a spot kick.

GALLAGHER'S VIEW: Correct decision

 

[Merging Cultures]

I think I have slipped into some parallel universe where only a few people can see hands and arms, because I definitely saw Ogbonna reach out and grab Vardy once he'd got past him. Which is initiating contact.

[thybluefox]

These views of two incidents seem to contradict themselves.

 

With the Vardy one they suggest it was correct because Vardy tried to con the ref by making more of it than it was. Yet in Reid one despite saying

 that Reid made the made the most of it that was ok, surely that is no different to the Vardy simulation. 

 

Where's that shite from Dave?

 

Gallegher has nailed it in my mind.

 

Then I worry for your mind. You really think Reid wasn't a dive, and the challenge on Huth wasn't a penalty?

 

Reid knows what's going on and he knows if he goes over there's a good change he'll win a penalty. He's faked it and its no different to what Vardy tried to do. 

[purpleronnie]

I think I have slipped into some parallel universe where only a few people can see hands and arms, because I definitely saw Ogbonna reach out and grab Vardy once he'd got past him. Which is initiating contact.

It's not a non contact sport, that didn't contribute to Vardys swan dive.

[Dan]

It's the inconsistency I can't handle. I don't get how so little is made of inconsistency. It throws everything in the air for everybody.

 

Moss was a disgrace yesterday. Worst refereeing display in a Leicester game since Gavin Ward.

[Spudulike]

The incident happened BEFORE the debated simulation. If a defender puts his hand on an opponent in an attempt to stop him from getting away then IT IS A FOUL. What happened afterwards is just bluster.

[shen]

There was already contact. Ogbonna was impeding his run by having his hand on him. You can't do that. It was a foul and Ogbonna should have been penalised.

The reason why Vardy then moved closer to him can be debated. It was either a. Because he was being slowed down on that side, pulling him into Ogbonna's path, b. Because Vardy was looking to capitalise on the fact he was being fouled by Ogbonna, or c. A bit of both.

I'd say c. As we know, Ogbonna fouled him first by grabbing him, this would have slowed him down and pulled him into him, even if just a fraction, which would have caused the legs to clash. Vardy then just looked to capitalise on being fouled, as he should have done.

If our defender put a hand on a striker who just knocked the ball past him, and got away with it, we'd start a thread saying we are worried about them being sent off in CL football.

 

I've said my tuppence on the matter. For me he made a meal of it and effectively dived. One another day, Ogbonna might've gotten a yellow or red and we would have a peno. The pundits would've said Ogbonna cannot do that (put his hand on Vardy's shoulder) and no-one would think it was particularly controversial. Vardy has been questioned before (arguably rightly so) and this time he was punished instead of rewarded.

The damning thing is that Vardy does not otherwise go down easily. When he barges into defenders to take the ball off them, he's remarkably adept at staying on his feet and keeping balance despite his light-ish frame. As soon as he goes into the penalty area and a defender is near, that all changes. He's a clever player and he knows how to put defenders at a disadvantage, which he sometimes exploits a bit too much. Like yesterday.

[purpleronnie]

It's the inconsistency I can't handle. I don't get how so little is made of inconsistency. It throws everything in the air for everybody.

 

Moss was a disgrace yesterday. Worst refereeing display in a Leicester game since Gavin Ward.

TBF he was consistant, just consistantly bad.