Honesty.

[Spudulike]

Don't know how you can get that from footage that doesn't have any view of their legs when the whole argument is Vardy moves his legs to force the contact. Still looks like they've bumped into each other and got tangled up in that rather than a foul though.

 

 

So you didn't notice the arm on his shoulder pulling him back ?? The foul was committed before Vardy hit the deck.

[The Doctor]

yeah think so. no reason was given (obviously) but it was whilst we were discussing the huth/simpson handballs vs southampton and then all my comments and all those agreeing we might've got away with one got deleted and all yours stayed . good times. 

 

 Spectacular. Fair enough the accidental vs deliberate argument had gone on for about half the thread but that's impressive.

[The Doctor]

So you didn't notice the arm on his shoulder pulling him back ?? The foul was committed before Vardy hit the deck.

 

There's an arm on his shoulder granted, but that's not enough to make someone fall like that; not to mention that if you pull someone backwards by the shoulder, they'll fall backwards not forwards. The argument over whether it's a dive is basically whether the contact is enough to make him go down, and the contact that sends him down is the legs tangling.

[ScouseFox]

chat sensible opinion get banned that's ft's motto

[elvisfmcfly]

Definate try for a penalty and it was not a penalty,he was on a yellow,warrented or not,letter of the law says red,refs dont always go for letter of the law but this one did.Hopefully vards thinks twice before doing this again.

[Merging Cultures]

There's an arm on his shoulder granted, but that's not enough to make someone fall like that; not to mention that if you pull someone backwards by the shoulder, they'll fall backwards not forwards. The argument over whether it's a dive is basically whether the contact is enough to make him go down, and the contact that sends him down is the legs tangling.

The hand on the shoulder is impeding his run. It's a foul. No one is claiming being pulled back makes him fall over.

Unless you consider being pulled back then brings him into the path of the defender where the legs tangle. Which IMO is the second foul. Vardy can't run straight as he was tugged back, the legs then clash and he falls. Certainly was enough contact there. Which I do think he made sure happened. But it wouldn't have happened if the first foul, pulling him back, hadn't happened.

You simply can't pull a player back like that.

[Spudulike]

There's an arm on his shoulder granted, but that's not enough to make someone fall like that; not to mention that if you pull someone backwards by the shoulder, they'll fall backwards not forwards. The argument over whether it's a dive is basically whether the contact is enough to make him go down, and the contact that sends him down is the legs tangling.

 

So are you saying that the hand on his shoulder pulling him back is not a foul ?? It's totally irrelevant what happens afterwards. A foul is a foul.

[The Doctor]

The hand on the shoulder is impeding his run. It's a foul. No one is claiming being pulled back makes him fall over.

Unless you consider being pulled back then brings him into the path of the defender where the legs tangle. Which IMO is the second foul. Vardy can't run straight as he was tugged back, the legs then clash and he falls. Certainly was enough contact there. Which I do think he made sure happened. But it wouldn't have happened if the first foul, pulling him back, hadn't happened.

You simply can't pull a player back like that.

 

The arm across Knockaert in that watford game was similar, Knockaert still dived (exaggerated the contact) and that was the softest penalty we've ever been awarded. A slight tug is technically a foul but it's practically nothing.

[Corky]

Both Vardy and Reid exaggerated the contact they received. I'd say Vardy's was more of a penalty than Schlupp's though.

[bovril]

A slight tug is practically nothing.

 

How many times have I tried to explain this to my girlfriend.

[theessexfox]

There can be contact and it still be a dive, if Reid is standing still and Vardy runs up to him, smashed into his leg and flops to the floor it's still a dive, contact or not. 

[The Blur]

It is beyond belief how people can't see it was a dive. How do you explain Vardy's wooden fall- when people go down, they normally look loose and natural but Vardy was all stiff when he went down which is different at how he normally fall all of the season. I think Vardy looked like a corpse falling out of a vertical coffin more than a normal human being!  

[Strokes]

I don't think it's a dive, I think he has moved across to put his body between player and ball to command control, felt contact and gone down. Whether it's a penalty is a different question, 50/50 IMO.

[Trav Le Bleu]

People come together at speed and they fall over. The whole "if it's not a penalty, then he must have dived" thing (which I realise isn't what Finners is saying) does my head in.

The only person who knows for certain if Jamie Vardy dived is Jamie Vardy.

[Corky]

To book Vardy for that and not book Payet for a totally comical dive 20 minutes later was outrageous.

 

I agree, Payet threw himself over but for some reason we played on.

 

The problem with the Vardy incident is that a penalty is deemed such a huge event. If that happened 10 yards inside their half I think he either gives a free-kick or waves play-on with no foul and deem it a collision. You'll see plenty of players make a similar action or movement and the ref has no hesitation in awarding a foul. With the crowd screaming for a penalty and a possible red card if he gives it for the defender he has to be seen to make a decision so it's either a penalty or dive where it's debatable as to which it is.

[Carl the Llama]

In short:  Vardy was a bit silly but John Moss is a willy puller.

[The Guvnor]

Honesty works both way's, are you seriously telling me Winston Reid didn't dive, he throws himself to the floor!  now that dive really was taking the p*ss.

[Vardinio'sCat]

Definite dive, it's different if Vardy cuts across the defender and the defenders clumsily bundles into him, but Vardy simply kicks his leg out into Ogbonna's path and chucks himself onto the ground, it can't be a penalty because Ogbonna has simply been running with Vardy, and so it has to be a dive because he's tried to con the ref into giving a penalty. There is zero foul play from Ogbonna and it was a fairly embarrassing dive for me. Payet should've gone if Moss was being consistent, however. 

 

Zero foul play... What about the hand on the shoulder?

[theessexfox]

Zero foul play... What about the hand on the shoulder?

What about the hand on the shoulder? If that's a pen then there are dozens of pens again, it's not enough to seriously impede him. 

[UPinCarolina]

In short:  Vardy was a bit silly but John Moss is a willy puller.

Ahh yes, the willy puller strikes again. 

[LestaFox92]

As much as you could say he was looking for contact you could also make a case for him planting his leading foot with the intent to shoot no matter which way you cut the cake he shouldn't of bin sent off absolute farce if that was neymar or messi even someone like sanchez do you reckon he's getting a yellow for that fvck off is he fvcking PC bridage

[shailen]

It wasn't a penalty but it wasn't a dive. He ran into the defender. At that pace anyone is going to fall over but I'm not going to say that I don't understand why people think otherwise. The thing is the first was not a yellow. As for the penalties that were given, both soft as anything and they're more dives than the Vardy one for me. One of the worst refereeing performances I've seen for both sides rather than one. Also Vardys first yellow wasnt even an incident. 

[shen]

It's Vardy's theatrical fall that does it. For some reason he wraps his back leg around and makes a roll. The contact doesn't warrant this at all, whichs confirms it's a dive. I can see why he tried it, and Ogbonna had been going to the limit and beyond all game, so he might've felt frustrated but also thought the ref wouldn't let Ogbonna get away with any more.

[aussie-fox]

although there was slight contact i think that vardy still dived. I consider "making the most of it" still diving. I hate it when players go down too easy, i just wish the only time you fell over was when you physically cant stay on your feet after a challenge, the game would be so much better for it. It appears that players bodys somehow have different physics as soon as they enter the penalty area! Schlupps was also a dive in my book. are you telling me that in any other walk of life that if jeff was bumped accidentally with the same force somewhere like the supermarket he would topple over? its crap.  

[Vardinio'sCat]

What about the hand on the shoulder? If that's a pen then there are dozens of pens again, it's not enough to seriously impede him. 

 

A clear hand on the shoulder, which you then admit is not enough of a foul to deserve a penalty, is not the same as 'zero foul play', in my book.