Daniel Amartey

[Pete Campbell]

Amartey wasn't the problem and I much prefer out lineup with him in it. It concerns me much more that Drinkwater is a shadow of last season and we miss Schmeichel when he is absent more than you realise watching first time through.

You have to remember about Amartey that he is still very young and there have been a lot of glimpses this season of the big potential that he has.

[Russell sprout]

8 hours ago, inckley fox said:

He wasn't dire, don't be hysterical.

 

Others were, on the other hand, very poor. He wasn't, he was just totally unspectacular. Regardless of what we 'know' they can produce, it's all irrelevant unless they actually do it. Amartey was better than Drinkwater today. He was better than both Drinkwater and King were in the last game. No, he's not pulled up trees, but if you think he's one of our biggest problems right now then you're never going to get close to the root of our problems.

 

Now the absence of Kante, that is a massive problem, but we can't imagine that (by far) our youngest starting player is going to single-handedly take on the mantle of one of the world's best defensive midfielders. Look at the manager who didn't replace Kante. Look at the others who have failed to turn up this season. Don't look at a young lad who's given his all, and actually out-performed a good few of them. That would be hugely unfair, and it wouldn't be very supportive.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree with regards to amartey

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

People who are trying to compare Amartey performance with Danny D yesterday completely miss the point. Currently Danny D is having to play as a holding and attacking midfielder as the lad with the former role is so limited. Previously teams would have employed two mids doing similar jobs (box to box). Current vogue is to have a dedicated holding man and one who can push on a little more ( Danny D). Amartey is not intuitive, he just reacts as he clearly can't read a game evolving in front of him. Danny knows this and is being pulled all over the place, which will naturally affect his performance.

 

Also - yes he gave the ball away on the half way line yesterday, but it didn't have to result in a goal, so let's not blame him entirely for the first. Deeney was in acres unmarked for the flick on.

[Fox92]

4 hours ago, Pete Campbell said:

Amartey wasn't the problem and I much prefer out lineup with him in it. It concerns me much more that Drinkwater is a shadow of last season and we miss Schmeichel when he is absent more than you realise watching first time through.

You have to remember about Amartey that he is still very young and there have been a lot of glimpses this season of the big potential that he has.

Drinkwater has been our best player this season... Despite the fact he's got to do more. He's currently playing a holding role and an attacking role... No wonder he makes mistakes. As I said, he needs a holding man next to him who will just win the ball back and give it.

 

Amartey being "very young" is a poor excuse... He's older than Dele Ali. 

[Fox92]

I'll also add, having just seen MOTD what is he doing for the first goal. Literally nowhere. Surely he's got to get infront of Deeney and head the ball clear.

[filbertway]

Still think he'd improve a lot more when he's actually played in his position. Pretty sure if we stuck Morgan or Huth in midfield they'd look equally lost and poor on the ball.

 

[AmarteyAndChill]

35 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Still think he'd improve a lot more when he's actually played in his position. Pretty sure if we stuck Morgan or Huth in midfield they'd look equally lost and poor on the ball.

 

He plays CB for Ghana well, but I thought he was a CM when we signed him.

[inckley fox]

8 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Can anyone tell me why three separate posters in this thread, when asked the direct question regarding 'what does Amartey contribute to the team' have all come back with indirect answers along the lines of either his age, scapegoating or how the other players haven't performed either'?

Three separate people failing, when asked directly, just to answer the bloody question.

It's classic FT.

Hold on, do you really think I didn't answer that question because it was unanswerable?

 

I pointed out that the question 'what does he add to the team?' was an irrelevant one. Firstly, because the rest of the team is as poor, at times markedly poorer, than Amartey. Secondly, because his presence in the side at the expense of Kante quite obviously detracts from the quality of the side, even though you could replace Kante with pretty much any other midfielder on the planet and it would detract from your side. And thirdly, because we also play poorly and lose games when we play King in the centre of midfield. So Amartey seems like a bit of an irrelevance if we're trying to figure out what the problem is.

 

But of course I'll answer the question directly if you need me to. I just didn't want to insult the intelligence of anyone who's seen the guy play: 

 

If we work on his ability to defend and attack set pieces then his height will be a useful weapon in a line-up which is occasionally on the short side. He wins pretty much all of his aerial 50-50s in the middle of the park. His pass completion rate is very good, and he is gradually showing greater willingness to play searching forward balls. He uses his strength well when involved in a tussle for the ball, and in spite of his size shows good pace in tracking back, which is handy because our back line isn't the quickest.

 

And I recognise his weaknesses too. That far too many of those balls still go backwards, meaning that his team-mates sometimes overlook him when they want to build an attack because he slows down the pace of our build-up play. He has a decent touch but he seldom takes the ball forward. He does still sometimes lose track of his man. He doesn't cover as much ground as Kante used to (although he does cover more ground than plenty of his team-mates), meaning that Drinkwater has to take on a greater share of the workload these days.

 

For this reason, both of them might benefit from having an extra body in midfield and - just as we excuse some of Danny's recent errors - maybe we should sympathise with Amartey's predicament too. Maybe his game is stretched too by how overrun we are in the middle of the park.

 

Personally I think we may be able to do better than him in January but, equally, I don't believe he's doing any worse than anyone else right now. I'm at risk of repeating myself, but it's much harder for Amartey to learn to be Kante than it is for, say, Morgan to remember how to be Morgan. I honestly think now is the time to start focusing our concerns on people we know can produce a lot more, rather than a guy - a young guy (no Fox92, he's not younger than Alli, but he is three years younger than Drinkwater was when he became a PL player, four years younger than Neil Lennon and three years younger than Kante... not everyone comes good at age 19) who is doing just about all he can to plug a leak.

[VLC86]

 How do you end up in a situation as Premier League Champions that a 21 year old full back with no experience is the only person to partner Drinky? 

 

Amartey really isnt isn't close to being a prem CM, Would he get in Newcastles team?

[inckley fox]

5 hours ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said:

People who are trying to compare Amartey performance with Danny D yesterday completely miss the point. Currently Danny D is having to play as a holding and attacking midfielder as the lad with the former role is so limited. Previously teams would have employed two mids doing similar jobs (box to box). Current vogue is to have a dedicated holding man and one who can push on a little more ( Danny D). Amartey is not intuitive, he just reacts as he clearly can't read a game evolving in front of him. Danny knows this and is being pulled all over the place, which will naturally affect his performance.

 

Also - yes he gave the ball away on the half way line yesterday, but it didn't have to result in a goal, so let's not blame him entirely for the first. Deeney was in acres unmarked for the flick on.

I think there's a lot of truth here but Drinkwater was also poor against West Brom, with King in midfield. Those two have played together many times in the past, including in the PL, and have often done much better than that. Amartey isn't the common denominator when it comes to our sub-par performances, just think of the Hull and Brom games. Obviously the absence of Kante is, but we can't expect to be able to lay that burden squarely on Amartey's, or King's, or Mendy's shoulders.

 

The worst we can say of him is this that he, like all our other options apart from - sometimes - Drinkwater, looks incapable of asserting himself on the game. Too much comes through our midfield two when he's in it, just as it does when he's not. I'd agree with those who are surprised that Ranieri is yet to try the 'Plan B' that he's long been talking up, and which might presumably offer a little more manpower in the centre of the park.

 

The obvious conclusion is that Kante made the 4-4-2 viable and we've not responded to his departure by either replacing him or switching the system. But even if we do replace him (and yes, drop Amartey) or switch the system, we'll still lose games if Drinkwater loses concentration as he has in the past couple of matches, or if Morgan, Fuchs and Huth can't keep up with their men, or if Mahrez keeps running into trouble when there's a perfectly good alternative available, or if Vardy fails to press or take his chances, and so on.

[dominicmsb]

Think in a 3 as a CDM he would be very useful but he doesn't have the range of passing needed to play CM in a 2 in the Premier League. Would love to see him as a CB one day just to see what he's like.

[splinterdream]

7 hours ago, Pete Campbell said:

Amartey wasn't the problem and I much prefer out lineup with him in it. It concerns me much more that Drinkwater is a shadow of last season and we miss Schmeichel when he is absent more than you realise watching first time through.

You have to remember about Amartey that he is still very young and there have been a lot of glimpses this season of the big potential that he has.

Maybe Kante took the pressure off Drinkwater allowing him more time on the ball and able to play a different game to the role he's having to play now. All our players are seemingly having to adapt to a different style and they're not doing it very well

[Guest CityFan 06]

11 minutes ago, dominicmsb said:

Think in a 3 as a CDM he would be very useful but he doesn't have the range of passing needed to play CM in a 2 in the Premier League. Would love to see him as a CB one day just to see what he's like.

Although different players, I feel the same about King and how he could be more useful in a midfield three. I feel we could see the best from King if he returned to the CAM role, a more attacking minded position. He's played in that sort of role before (2011 - 2012 ish?), he can certainly finish and I'd just like us to utilise him as I feel he has potential. In this midfield three we could then have Drinkwater and Amartey for instance, behind him holding in CM. Or Mendy integrated into it somewhere when he's back.

 

Coming to Amartey, I've seen a few glimpses & footage of him playing CB for Copenhagen I believe, looks solid enough to me. I still think he can succeed in CDM in the future, we will have to wait and see. 

[TJB-fox]

On 16 October 2016 at 13:52, Col city fan said:

I've told what I expect of a midfielder playing box to box. I expect both defensive solidity and attacking flair. I expect the odd goal or two, the odd defense splitting pass or two and an aerial threat on set pieces when the bloke is a big lump.

What I don't expect is a bloke who, in your own words, is 'found out against the top sides', especially not to the tune of 13 goals in four games (I'm quite surprised people are taking that so lightly...13 in 4).

I expect the Champions of England to be fielding a pair of central mids who are clearly quality players. Not one of them who is having to do the work of two (actually of four yesterday). That's not expecting too much.

Amartey might improve. I dunno how many times I have to say this....it's NOW that matters. Football is a results business and our results away from home are embarrassing for a Championship winning side. The fault of course is not all Amartey's. It's a team thing. But he ain't helping either going forward or getting back.

If you see it any different to this, then I can't?

Must be said I find it very odd that over the years King has slowly lost his eye for goal, maybe only grabbing one a season when he used to be one of our main threats between 2010-13 ish. 

Amartey I just find bizzarre. He looks scared to do absolutely anything other than play a 3 yard pass back to the person who's just given him the ball. Maybe he feels more comfortable playing centre half? I don't know. We need to change things up though because 442 clearly isn't working. As others have said I think it would do us the world of good and Amartey the world of good to revert to a midfield 3 where he won't get ripped apart so easily! There's a player in there somewhere.

 

oops quoted the wrong post

Edited 21 November 2016 by TJB-fox

[HankMarvin]

 

Just to add some more overall stats for the people that say he regularly outshines his teammates

[Guest Col city fan]

6 hours ago, TJB-fox said:

Must be said I find it very odd that over the years King has slowly lost his eye for goal, maybe only grabbing one a season when he used to be one of our main threats between 2010-13 ish. 

Amartey I just find bizzarre. He looks scared to do absolutely anything other than play a 3 yard pass back to the person who's just given him the ball. Maybe he feels more comfortable playing centre half? I don't know. We need to change things up though because 442 clearly isn't working. As others have said I think it would do us the world of good and Amartey the world of good to revert to a midfield 3 where he won't get ripped apart so easily! There's a player in there somewhere.

 

oops quoted the wrong post

No, I posted that one over a month ago. It all still stands of course,

[desertfox2]

3 hours ago, Col city fan said:

No, I posted that one over a month ago. It all still stands of course,

His eye for goal has dropped as he's moved up the leagues that's all. 

[Guest Col city fan]

9 minutes ago, desertfox2 said:

His eye for goal has dropped as he's moved up the leagues that's all. 

I'm not sure it has mate to be fair. He's played differently really. King's positional sense I think is exceptional but he's not told to get forward that much anymore. He's become more of a defensively minded midfielder, told to sit more and give the ball to Drinkwater (or to Cambiasso under Pearson). When he does get forward, he can still score and without a doubt is the biggest goal threat of any of our central midfielders now.

One of the biggest problems is if we don't score from our attacking players, we don't score at all. When Cambiasso played he scored goals. Neither Drinkwater and especially Amartey show no sign of scoring goals from the central midfield area. In a 442, the expectation IS that the central mids at least pose some sort of attacking threat. Currently, only King gives you any of this.

[EnglishOxide]

People realise that Amartey is trying to do the same as Drinkwater right?

 

They are both overworked in midfield because 442 doesn't work in the modern game unless you have a spectacular midfielder (Kante) or amazing players (Atletico? And even they are being worked out now).

 

The only other teams who get away with 442 are your Burnleys who often have to ride their luck for a result.

 

Drinkwater suffers from an overloaded work rate, but Amartey suffers from the same thing. It's not his fault that at 21 he isn't as good as Kante or Drinkwater playing in an outdated system. I'm satisfied he's doing his best.

 

By persisting with our formation at this current stage it's the manager who is failing to make the most of our midfielders' qualities and the buck stops there IMO.

 

I dare say even with Mendy fit instead we would still be struggling because he is not Kante either and we are quite predictable to lineup against. We're not as dynamic as we were during the great escape and the first half of last season.

[WardyisPukka]

Nowhere near commanding enough - havent seen him put in one decent tackle all season either.

 

For me he wouldn't even be in the squad at the moment! 

 

Time to switch formation if we persist with Amartey! 4-3-3 or 5-3-2 

Edited 21 November 2016 by WardyisPukka

[Wymsey]

Seems all legs and running, that's all.

[Jimmy]

On 21/11/2016 at 00:27, TJB-fox said:

Must be said I find it very odd that over the years King has slowly lost his eye for goal, maybe only grabbing one a season when he used to be one of our main threats between 2010-13 ish. 

Amartey I just find bizzarre. He looks scared to do absolutely anything other than play a 3 yard pass back to the person who's just given him the ball. Maybe he feels more comfortable playing centre half? I don't know. We need to change things up though because 442 clearly isn't working. As others have said I think it would do us the world of good and Amartey the world of good to revert to a midfield 3 where he won't get ripped apart so easily! There's a player in there somewhere.

 

oops quoted the wrong post

he hasn't lost his eye for goal he's been played in more defensive positions in a 442 since Pearson came back and its continued under Ranieri, under Sousa and Sven his job in the 3 was to get forward and score

[AmarteyAndChill]

I want to see this Amartey more often. Yaya Toure esc runs setting up counter attacks. 

[frany104]

Amartey was excellent when he came on tonight. Full of energy, pressing high and lots of tackles plus confident burst forward too. He did more in 15  minutes than king did all game.

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, frany104 said:

Amartey was excellent when he came on tonight. Full of energy, pressing high and lots of tackles plus confident burst forward too. He did more in 15  minutes than king did all game.

If he could find the consistency to put that performance in most weeks, we'd hardly hear Kante's name again and we'd be pushing for the top half of the table.