Trouble in Madrid

[Ashley]

You could see the Spanish police were gagging for it on the Tuesday and the Wednesday. 

 

Constantly coming out and forming lines infront of Leicester fans, in all honesty what was the need? A more relaxed approached would have been suitable, stay out the way.

 

Indeed we had a few mindless idiots there(one singing Gibraltar is ours on that video and it goes nation wide)

 

Funny how we had no trouble in Belgium, Denmark or Portugal yet the only incidents have been with Spanish Police? Oh and the fact Atletico fans were letting off fire works, and pyro before the game yet Spanish police don't bat an eyelid at it.

[purpleronnie]

Can we just stop insulting each other over what happened, some of our fans acted like idiots, some didn't, some police acted like thugs.

 

Let's move on and come together to look forward to one of the greatest matches in our history.

[Ashley]

Just now, purpleronnie said:

Can we just stop insulting each other over what happened, some of our fans acted like idiots, some didn't, some police acted like thugs.

 

Let's move on and come together to look forward to one of the greatest matches in our history.

Can you stop taking sense please? 

[purpleronnie]

Just now, Ashley said:

Can you stop taking sense please? 

First time for everything Ashley.

[midland_red]

Here's my take then..big caveat, wasn't there so relying on what eye witnesses have said plus videos.

 

1) getting drunk, singing offensive songs and behaving like trash in the central square of the capital of Spain is unacceptable. End of. Such scum diminish LCFC, the City of Leicester, and England in general. I hope, based on video evidence, that the club identify those who are responsible and ban then from the KP for bringing the club into disrepute.

2) not interested in the fact that fans in say Russia or Turkey are more organised and violent. Interested in what our own 'fans' do in our name and what people abroad think of us all as a result

3) Police forces abroad know - from their corporate memory - what the English are like at football matches. In Spain some may have direct experience of Brits on the Costa. I can assure you that in such places the British are not admired

4) Most people know that the Spanish police are perfectly Ok in the normal course of events but get very rough indeed if you get on the wrong side of them. Their culture when dealing with crowds was formed years ago under the fascist dictatorship of General Franco and has not changed one bit

5) so I can't understand why honest fans hung around a group of bonehead troublemakers, which seems to have been around 70 people. Surely they cant have thought their behaviour acceptable? and in view of point 4) above, not moving somewhere else seems most unwise.

6) Absolutely no question that innocent people - including women and children - got hurt and sometimes badly. Can't be justified at all. But it can be understood - that's what the riot police are like.They don't just focus on the troublemakers

7) It would not be much different BTW if the police in London thought a political demonstration was getting out of hand

8) there seems to have been some intelligence failure though. Were these city 'fans' known troublemakers? If so I don't understand why they weren't stopped at airports or pre-emptively detained before they could cause trouble.Were Leicester police working closely with the Madrid police?

9) deeply pissed off that the narrative in the press and TV is about a tiny section of our supporters who we would be better off without than the penalty which wasn't

 

 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

Incredible how many of those who support the police's conduct weren't there either because they weren't in Madrid and have just read stories in the press (with a very intentional angle) or they were in Madrid but not in the square because they "had the sense to leave" or drank elsewhere because they knew what was going to happen.

 

Same problem exists in both instances:

they weren't there to see first-hand and in-full what unfolded.

[midland_red]

4 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Incredible how many of those who support the police's conduct weren't there either because they weren't in Madrid and have just read stories in the press (with a very intentional angle) or they were in Madrid but not in the square because they "had the sense to leave" or drank elsewhere because they knew what was going to happen.

 

Same problem exists in both instances:

they weren't there to see first-hand and in-full what unfolded.

I didn't support the police's conduct. I said it couldn't be justified - but that it could be explained.

None of it would have happened were it not for the behaviour of a small subset of so-called fans. (And again, caveat - I wasn't there and I've based my comments on videos and on reports on FT)

Edited 14 April 2017 by midland_red

[HighPeakFox]

I think those with the time and mind to do it could learn something from reading 'All Played Out', by Pete Davies.

 

Sadly, it would be wasted on those it probably most applies to, but it carefully avoids apportioning blame whilst trying to understand how the English behave, and indeed how other countries respond/react to us.

[CockneyFox]

20 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Incredible how many of those who support the police's conduct weren't there either because they weren't in Madrid and have just read stories in the press (with a very intentional angle) or they were in Madrid but not in the square because they "had the sense to leave" or drank elsewhere because they knew what was going to happen.

 

Same problem exists in both instances:

they weren't there to see first-hand and in-full what unfolded.

I witnessed most of Wednesday's events first hand - the minority of "fans" were asking for trouble and quite frankly they got it. Would agree that the police response could've been a lot more diplomatic, but it's their country and they can police it how they see fit. Nobody was forced to be in Spain; we were all visitors and therefore we respect our hosts. Throwing beer and chanting about Gibraltar was anything but.

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying I "support" the police conduct but I do err on their side rather than the animals that brought shame on our great club.

Edited 14 April 2017 by CockneyFox

[Harry - LCFC]

1 minute ago, CockneyFox said:

I witnessed most of Wednesday's events first hand - the minority of "fans" were asking for trouble and quite frankly they got it. Would agree that the police response could've been a lot more diplomatic, but it's their country and they can police it how they see fit. Nobody was forced to be in Spain; we were all visitors and therefore we respect our hosts.

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying I "support" the police conduct but I do err on their side rather than the animals that brought shame on our great club.

Asking people to respect another country's laws isn't too bad as a general principle, but when you're extending it to include indiscriminate clubbings as something we should 'just accept' then you've taken it a too far. Innocent people have a right to be free from violence, regardless of what country they're in.

[CockneyFox]

2 minutes ago, Harry - LCFC said:

Asking people to respect another country's laws isn't too bad as a general principle, but when you're extending it to include indiscriminate clubbings as something we should 'just accept' then you've taken it a too far. Innocent people have a right to be free from violence, regardless of what country they're in.

I don't think anybody is condoning that.

[Strokes]

Just now, CockneyFox said:

I don't think anybody is condoning that.

I think some people are revelling in it.

[midland_red]

5 minutes ago, Harry - LCFC said:

Asking people to respect another country's laws isn't too bad as a general principle, but when you're extending it to include indiscriminate clubbings as something we should 'just accept' then you've taken it a too far. Innocent people have a right to be free from violence, regardless of what country they're in.

no-one is saying what the Madrid police did was right, of course not. But none of it would have happened were is not for a subset of our 'fans' - see longer explanation of how I see it a few posts up.

[Harry - LCFC]

2 minutes ago, CockneyFox said:

I don't think anybody is condoning that.

You said "it's their country and they can police it how they see fit". To me that looked like you were saying the police could act as they did if they wanted to, my mistake if not.

Edited 14 April 2017 by Harry - LCFC

[Freeman's Wharfer]

Quick final question from me on this: how do we explain the fact that, after the match, back in the Plaza Mayor as I was sat having a quiet drink with my dad and a scattering of remaining Leicester fans, the final van load of police in riot gear decided to charge into the seating areas with their batons?

 

There was no singing, no one stood up or in front of them, no litter as that had all been cleared up by then, no flares or smoke bombs. Literally could have been any other European city in the world at that point with a few people having a quiet beer.

 

Obviously you won't have heard about that as it was just pure police aggression with no response. My guess would be that it happened because those police actually quite enjoyed the aggro and wanted one last little bit before heading home for the night - which might well explain why it was so quick to escalate earlier in the day.

 

Questions about the motives on both sides have to be asked which is why I'm loathed to see this finger pointing and stereo-typing of our fans.

Edited 14 April 2017 by Freeman's Wharfer

[Strokes]

8 minutes ago, Harry - LCFC said:

You said "it's their country and they can police it how they see fit". To me that looked like you were saying the police could act as they did if they wanted to, my mistake if not.

I think you are being far too polite Harry.

[Legend_in_blue]

I've been reading up on customs in Spain and came across a few bits and pieces of info:

 

El Cuerpo Nacional de Policia (The National Police) This is the countrywide urban police agency of Spain. They are under the sole authority of Spain’s Ministry of Interior. They are normally dressed in black uniforms with white shirts but can also be seen wearing navy blue military style uniforms. There is also a considerable sized plain clothes force. Like the Guardia Civil they are a conventional police force, albeit they have civil rather than military ranks.  They’re stationed in towns with a population of over 20,000 and deal with serious crime such as theft, rape and muggings, and are also used to control demonstrations and crowds.  If you suffer a crime or need help in an urban area (population usually over 20,000), it is the Policia Nacional who will respond.  However, in some towns, local police are heavy-handed and can be a law unto themselves and aren’t averse to using illegal methods.

 

I think these are the guys who went in heavy handed in the square.  Pabs mentioned the Civil Guard, although these guys wear green uniforms and tend to be found in more rural areas.

 

Reading further apparently it is a criminal offence to even swear at a police officer in Spain.  Taking this as a minimum, I'm not surprised they think that they can do what they want, to who they want.  The culture of policing over there is completely different to our own.  We're tolerant to it but they won't accept challenge at all.  I think our police force is well respected for that, prevention is always a better way of dealing with conflict situations.  But Spain don't see it that way.

 

Basically, there is no messing about with these guys.  You see them, you clear out.

[Rigga]

Tuesday night 9.30 ish

As fans made their way through one of the plaza mayor exits (this particular one was like a jitty) the riot police were about 10 metres away but half a dozen more in riot gear ran around and blocked the exit at the other end and charged towards 4/5 innocent fans...struck them repeatedly with their batons and arrested them.

 

i was 3/4 seconds from being cornered myself.

This was after already being struck by a baton inside the square whilst being simply stood their offering no threat to anyone.

 

Tuesday the police were totally out of order!!

[Strokes]

11 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

Your nick name should be toe nails because its the only part of you left hanging out of DanLCFC's arse hole.

 

What did he do? Leave a message in the FT Mafia's group chat saying some one's been mean?

 

Muppets.

I don't need to be part of any group to see you for what you are, a pathetic bandwagoner. It's funny how your morals on beatings and thuggish behaviour do not extend to yourself. Prat!

Edited 14 April 2017 by Strokes

[st albans fox]

Let me know when I need to start running 

[Dan LCFC]

For someone who has banged on about others' immaturity and "crying" you seem to be quite immature and a "crier".

[boots60]

Loving the irony on this thread

[CockneyFox]

57 minutes ago, Harry - LCFC said:

You said "it's their country and they can police it how they see fit". To me that looked like you were saying the police could act as they did if they wanted to, my mistake if not.

My poor choice of words then; I wasn't backing the extreme lengths to which they responded, more that if they choose to deal with (perceived) threats proactively as opposed to standing off, that is their prerogative.

 

Hope that clarifies.

[lifted*fox]

Interestingly enough I got banned for 4 days recently, for what I can only assume was having a little 'argument' on here with MPH. I assume because there was no reason given on the ban screen. 

 

Even though MPH indulged in the same argument to the same level, he was allowed to continue posting. 

 

It'll be interesting to see if the mods deem this argument ban-worthy for any of you lot or whether they consider some of you 'forum-favourites' and just brush this under the carpet. 

 

Seems to be one rule for one and one for another on here. Hah, I'll probably get another ban just for mentioning it. I'll see you all just in time for Atletico at home. 

Edited 14 April 2017 by daz*dsb

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, daz*dsb said:

Interestingly enough, I got banned for 4 days recently for, I can only assume having a little 'argument' on here with MPH. 

 

Even though MPH indulged in the same argument to the same level, he was allowed to continue posting. 

 

It'll be interesting to see if the mods deem this argument ban-worthy for any of you lot or whether they consider some of you 'forum-favourites' and just brush this under the carpet. 

 

Seems to be one rule for one and one for another on here. Hah, I'll probably get another ban just for mentioning it. I'll see you all just in time for Atletico at home. 

I bet nobody even noticed you were gone. Diddums.