The OH Leuven Thread

[fleckneymike]

It is ok for people to admit that he was good here and now he's not. Saying he's done a bad job after leaving us doesn't diminish his achievements with us.

[Lizhang]

1 hour ago, inckley fox said:

You could also argue that Leuven is a bit of a poisoned chalice, seeing as only one of their past 6 managers has lasted as long as Pearson, and he was fired a few months later. They're a club with small attendances by top flight standards and virtually no historical success, but many of their fans were calling for his head - even though he'd taken a side that was bottom but one a year earlier to second last year - on the strength of a handful of games with a new-look side, when they were still only 3 points off top when it kicked off. And many of the fans don't appear to be too keen on King Power, or foreign involvement in the club in general, so that doesn't help.

As i pointed out earlier, historical success means nothing in this context. OHL was formed in 2002 out of 3 local clubs. The newly formed club has always had one of the best youth divisions of the country, always had more attendaces than most direct competitors and except for 2 seasons in the second division, always was one of the contenders or at least an outsider. I'm getting a bit fed up with downplaying the relevance of our club, frankly. If we're not worthy of Pearson's greatness, he's free to leave. Pearson took over after 6 games last year, of which the previous (Dutch) manager had to cope with a failed transfer policy, because the preperations occured in the middle of the power shift with King Power. He did however manage to do a lot better than Pearson this year (9 points out of 6 games vs 6 points out of 6 games), and even better than Pearson did in the beginning of the second period last year (9 points out of 7 games). That manager, was fired by King Power btw, not by the Leuven board.

Many supporters were opposed to any foreign takeover (not specifically King Power) because in Belgium, this usually means, losing your identity, being used as a "transfer" club, for traficing foreign players . Most of us hoped King Power would be different, that their involvement with Leicester would increase know-how within the club. That we would be able to remain "Leuven". But after roughly 18 months since King Power started talks, we have mainly seen the colors in the stadium turn blue, local volunteers, getting kicked out, English "pro's" getting flown in, football on the pitch reaching an all time low thanks to our new star coach. And still, the new owners have not reached out to the supporters, not once have they made a statement, and Leuven fans feel like they are left without a voice.

[Foxhateram]

On 15/09/2018 at 22:49, lgfualol said:

Didn't do it at Derby or Leuven tho.

Wasn't given time at Derby (and had a medling chairman to contend with) and it's still early days at Leuven. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

23 hours ago, Lizhang said:

As i pointed out earlier, historical success means nothing in this context. OHL was formed in 2002 out of 3 local clubs. The newly formed club has always had one of the best youth divisions of the country, always had more attendaces than most direct competitors and except for 2 seasons in the second division, always was one of the contenders or at least an outsider. I'm getting a bit fed up with downplaying the relevance of our club, frankly. If we're not worthy of Pearson's greatness, he's free to leave. Pearson took over after 6 games last year, of which the previous (Dutch) manager had to cope with a failed transfer policy, because the preperations occured in the middle of the power shift with King Power. He did however manage to do a lot better than Pearson this year (9 points out of 6 games vs 6 points out of 6 games), and even better than Pearson did in the beginning of the second period last year (9 points out of 7 games). That manager, was fired by King Power btw, not by the Leuven board.

Many supporters were opposed to any foreign takeover (not specifically King Power) because in Belgium, this usually means, losing your identity, being used as a "transfer" club, for traficing foreign players . Most of us hoped King Power would be different, that their involvement with Leicester would increase know-how within the club. That we would be able to remain "Leuven". But after roughly 18 months since King Power started talks, we have mainly seen the colors in the stadium turn blue, local volunteers, getting kicked out, English "pro's" getting flown in, football on the pitch reaching an all time low thanks to our new star coach. And still, the new owners have not reached out to the supporters, not once have they made a statement, and Leuven fans feel like they are left without a voice.

To be fair, it's hard to argue with that. You're a negative git but I'd probably feel the same if I was you, it does smack of being a feeder club.

 

Despite this I'm confident in saying Pearson will turn things around and you'll suddenly take off performances and results wise, if he's given time, hard though it may be to believe right now.

[Lizhang]

2 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

To be fair, it's hard to argue with that. You're a negative git but I'd probably feel the same if I was you, it does smack of being a feeder club.

 

Despite this I'm confident in saying Pearson will turn things around and you'll suddenly take off performances and results wise, if he's given time, hard though it may be to believe right now.

I have not given up all hope of being more than a feeder club yet. What is most worrying to me though, is the fact that there is no communication from King Power, or from the new English board members that are now in charge of the club. Not a word on short or long term vision. In that regard, one can't help but become suspicious looking at what's right in front of us. Our youth players that made the squad last year, in the meantime have been kicked back to the youth squad. Too many players in the first squad. Ironically, we passed up on the opportunity of becoming a feeder club for Monaco (because we didn't want to be a feeder club). The other club in our league that went with Monaco instead, while we went with King Power, they immediately promoted and they're playing in the top division now. Personally (and i'm an exception as a Leuven supporter) i would rather stay in 2nd division if it meant we kept our identity. But if that's not on the table, then obviously i'd like to play in 1st division asap.

Inckley Fox said something about not many managers staying long in Leuven. While this is true, you need to understand our competition and how the TV budgets are split. Our second division gets no media attention. And by no attention, i mean none whatsoever. Only since a few years (since +/- 2014), is it possible to watch those games on tv, be it behind a paywall. This means those teams get to live off the leftovers, the scraps. In other words, if you can't make the jump to becoming a stable 1st division team soon afer getting promoted, you will always risk dropping off and getting relegated, simply due to a lack of budget. In Belgium, there are 5 or 6 teams, that go up and down constantly. The past 8 or so years, we've been one of those teams. That means you have to start over every time. When you get relegated, you can't afford to keep your best players, due to the huge divide in budgets between 1st and 2nd division. When you go up, you need to form a completely new team, because the players from 2nd will not be good enough to build on further in 1st. This also means no 2nd division team has historically had the budget, to keep persuing promotion year after year. So, every time you have to make it count. If you don't, then maybe you can squeeze out an other year, but after that, you need to go back to saving for the next couple of years. In reality, this means that when the board has invested a great deal in the squad but the team is underperforming, that the decision will be made sooner rather than later, to sack the coach. The same goes for the other side of the "border". Getting relegated is nothing short of a drama for a club, so whenever the team is in the danger zone, the coach will often be first to go.

This is nothing typical for OHL, it's typical for the Belgian leagues, and specifically, the teams that have invested to get out of second division (where there has historically been a lack of money), or are in danger of getting relegated out of the first division (because the resulting financial drama). Also, a lot of those managers that have been sacked in the past few years, were appointed as interim coach to begin with. But again, this is why i have repeatedly stated, that people in this thread do not know the club, the competition, the intricacies. It's not as clearcut as many seem to think. I'm sure there is no league in the world, were teams happily get relegated or don't care about getting promoted, but in Belgium due to the media attention (which is a huge deal to sponsors and supporters) lacking in 2nd, and due to the insane divide in TV budgets, it's an extreme situation. Take into account the fact that 50% of 2nd division plays relegation playdowns to the amateur level, and you may start to understand why coaches get sacked much more easily.

Edited 17 September 2018 by Lizhang

[UniFox21]

23 minutes ago, Lizhang said:

I have not given up all hope of being more than a feeder club yet. What is most worrying to me though, is the fact that there is no communication from King Power, or from the new English board members that are now in charge of the club. Not a word on short or long term vision. In that regard, one can't help but become suspicious looking at what's right in front of us. 

 

 But again, this is why i have repeatedly stated, that people in this thread do not know the club, the competition, the intricacies. It's not as clearcut as many seem to think. I'm sure there is no league in the world, were teams happily get relegated or don't care about getting promoted, but in Belgium due to the media attention (which is a huge deal to sponsors and supporters) lacking in 2nd, and due to the insane divide in TV budgets, it's an extreme situation. Take into account the fact that 50% of 2nd division plays relegation playdowns to the amateur level, and you may start to understand why coaches get sacked much more easily.

With respect mate, no one has said they're an expert on your league. Most are simply giving their view as an outsider and what we've experienced with the owners over the period of time they've been in charge and what we experienced with Pearson.

You can't bash everyones opinion just because they don't fully understand your league, when they're trying to find out more and simply say what they think. 

 

Honestly, I don't see you as a feeder club. You're just owned by the same people and we've loaned a couple of players over to you who benefit both parties being there. Everyone is jumping to conclusions on "feeder club" status. 

 

The Thais as well aren't the most frequent in the press, you'll generally only hear bits when they have something big to announce. I'm doubting its anything suspicious

[Corky]

All the complaints are similar to what we have with our manager- tactically not very good, results poor, communication poor.

 

Change Pearson for Puel and it could be another Leicester thread.

[Lizhang]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

With respect mate, no one has said they're an expert on your league. Most are simply giving their view as an outsider and what we've experienced with the owners over the period of time they've been in charge and what we experienced with Pearson.

You can't bash everyones opinion just because they don't fully understand your league, when they're trying to find out more and simply say what they think. 

 

Honestly, I don't see you as a feeder club. You're just owned by the same people and we've loaned a couple of players over to you who benefit both parties being there. Everyone is jumping to conclusions on "feeder club" status. 

 

The Thais as well aren't the most frequent in the press, you'll generally only hear bits when they have something big to announce. I'm doubting its anything suspicious

Like i said, i haven't given up all hope in regards to not being a feeder club. The thing is that there are some things happening, that are difficult not to be suspicious of. Lack of communication and ignoring local youth players, especially.

I also don't blame or expect everybody to be an expert on our club or league, but i've read quite a few excuses, reasonings, explanations why we need to suck it up, give Pearson all the time in the world, etc... People are free to their opinion, that doesn't mean their opinion is informed. Hence i'll respond with things that need to be taken into account.

[UniFox21]

18 minutes ago, Lizhang said:

Like i said, i haven't given up all hope in regards to not being a feeder club. The thing is that there are some things happening, that are difficult not to be suspicious of. Lack of communication and ignoring local youth players, especially.

I also don't blame or expect everybody to be an expert on our club or league, but i've read quite a few excuses, reasonings, explanations why we need to suck it up, give Pearson all the time in the world, etc... People are free to their opinion, that doesn't mean their opinion is informed. Hence i'll respond with things that need to be taken into account.

I don't think you will be! There's always a chance with Brexit that you may well get a few players from abroad that we'd like to sign but can't due to regulations, but that benefits us both there.

The communication issue I wouldn't worry about, they don't talk for the sake of it. Youth policy may have something more to it but genuinely no idea there.

 

You'll notice a lot of Pearson die hard on this forum, but like any successful period for a club, you forget the bad periods. Thats the case here. He did take time to get his mentality across, think that's all they're suggesting. But considering your league is so diverse he may not get that privelige.

I have taken a genuine interest in your league and set up. In a few years I'm sure there will be a stronger bond between the two clubs!

[Frost]

Ultimately, Pearson hasn't done a very good job at Leuven, nor has he anywhere since he left us. They're best off appointing someone who understands Belgian football as they won't get promoted under NP.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

1 hour ago, Lizhang said:

I have not given up all hope of being more than a feeder club yet. What is most worrying to me though, is the fact that there is no communication from King Power, or from the new English board members that are now in charge of the club. Not a word on short or long term vision. In that regard, one can't help but become suspicious looking at what's right in front of us. Our youth players that made the squad last year, in the meantime have been kicked back to the youth squad. Too many players in the first squad. Ironically, we passed up on the opportunity of becoming a feeder club for Monaco (because we didn't want to be a feeder club). The other club in our league that went with Monaco instead, while we went with King Power, they immediately promoted and they're playing in the top division now. Personally (and i'm an exception as a Leuven supporter) i would rather stay in 2nd division if it meant we kept our identity. But if that's not on the table, then obviously i'd like to play in 1st division asap.

Inckley Fox said something about not many managers staying long in Leuven. While this is true, you need to understand our competition and how the TV budgets are split. Our second division gets no media attention. And by no attention, i mean none whatsoever. Only since a few years (since +/- 2014), is it possible to watch those games on tv, be it behind a paywall. This means those teams get to live off the leftovers, the scraps. In other words, if you can't make the jump to becoming a stable 1st division team soon afer getting promoted, you will always risk dropping off and getting relegated, simply due to a lack of budget. In Belgium, there are 5 or 6 teams, that go up and down constantly. The past 8 or so years, we've been one of those teams. That means you have to start over every time. When you get relegated, you can't afford to keep your best players, due to the huge divide in budgets between 1st and 2nd division. When you go up, you need to form a completely new team, because the players from 2nd will not be good enough to build on further in 1st. This also means no 2nd division team has historically had the budget, to keep persuing promotion year after year. So, every time you have to make it count. If you don't, then maybe you can squeeze out an other year, but after that, you need to go back to saving for the next couple of years. In reality, this means that when the board has invested a great deal in the squad but the team is underperforming, that the decision will be made sooner rather than later, to sack the coach. The same goes for the other side of the "border". Getting relegated is nothing short of a drama for a club, so whenever the team is in the danger zone, the coach will often be first to go.

This is nothing typical for OHL, it's typical for the Belgian leagues, and specifically, the teams that have invested to get out of second division (where there has historically been a lack of money), or are in danger of getting relegated out of the first division (because the resulting financial drama). Also, a lot of those managers that have been sacked in the past few years, were appointed as interim coach to begin with. But again, this is why i have repeatedly stated, that people in this thread do not know the club, the competition, the intricacies. It's not as clearcut as many seem to think. I'm sure there is no league in the world, were teams happily get relegated or don't care about getting promoted, but in Belgium due to the media attention (which is a huge deal to sponsors and supporters) lacking in 2nd, and due to the insane divide in TV budgets, it's an extreme situation. Take into account the fact that 50% of 2nd division plays relegation playdowns to the amateur level, and you may start to understand why coaches get sacked much more easily.

That's a very thorough and informative post, thanks for taking the time to write it and I think we can all relate to your frustration given the intense competition to get into the 1st div and pressure to succeed after investment.

 

What I think I'd say is given the unsustainable situation it appears to be existing in Belgian 2nd Division, and the difficulty in staying up when you're promoted, having some owners with a lot of cash can only be a good thing as you can afford to soak up a couple of seasons of struggle while improving infrastructure. Then once you do manage to push for the 1st Division you will be better placed to stay up and consolidate. 

 

Pearson for me is a good manager to oversee this process as he is thorough in improving a football club from top to bottom and focused on the long term rather than short term. At least he was at Leicester anyway. I still think it will suddenly come together for OHL on and off the pitch.

 

That is if king Power have plans to improve OHL and make them a force in Belgium. Only time can tell if you're being used as a feeder club for LCFC with no interest at all in OHL but given the King Power brand is attached to OHL now I'd doubt it.

 

Edited 17 September 2018 by Arriba Los Zorros

[whoareyaaa]

On ‎16‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 16:02, Monsell1976 said:

On paper we improved positions, when you look at it on paper, but going on experiencing it, league one with the squad he had, yes good season.

 Following seasons some shocking football but gradually improving the league position, without spectacular improvement, and then admittedly a spectacular improvement to win the championship.

 Then awful again for most of that premier league experience, and somehow stayed up.

 Puel has a lot of comparisons with Pearson, hated by half the fans, and inconsistent, and had terrible runs, Pearson divided fans opinions, some still think he can come back and all will be rosy.

Looking at his management career since leaving, for me it proves how much of an influence his back room staff had on his success, he’s not same without Shakespeare 

His man management of players, training setup etc.. is very good though and we rarely got destroyed by teams under Pearson apart from that cup game against Fleetwood, players give there all for him and the team and his organisation and work ethic of the teams he put together was solid...

 

He spoke his mind which probably didn't do him any favours with some fans, owners and media but overall he was right.

 

I would take him back in a shot, deserves another chance in the Prem with us

 

 

[UniFox21]

26 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

His man management of players, training setup etc.. is very good though and we rarely got destroyed by teams under Pearson apart from that cup game against Fleetwood, players give there all for him and the team and his organisation and work ethic of the teams he put together was solid...

 

He spoke his mind which probably didn't do him any favours with some fans, owners and media but overall he was right.

 

I would take him back in a shot, deserves another chance in the Prem with us

 

 

Brilliant post, until the end. 

 

We need to let go of this fantasy that Pearson will come in and solve every one of our issues.  

[Babylon]

On 16/09/2018 at 16:02, Monsell1976 said:

On paper we improved positions, when you look at it on paper, but going on experiencing it, league one with the squad he had, yes good season.

 Following seasons some shocking football but gradually improving the league position, without spectacular improvement, and then admittedly a spectacular improvement to win the championship.

 Then awful again for most of that premier league experience, and somehow stayed up.

 Puel has a lot of comparisons with Pearson, hated by half the fans, and inconsistent, and had terrible runs, Pearson divided fans opinions, some still think he can come back and all will be rosy.

Looking at his management career since leaving, for me it proves how much of an influence his back room staff had on his success, he’s not same without Shakespeare 

On paper? Pretty sure it actually happened. You talk like getting a club from league one to staying in the prem, over what 5 or 6 seasons isn't a great achievement.

[HankMarvin]

On 16/09/2018 at 16:02, Monsell1976 said:

On paper we improved positions, when you look at it on paper, but going on experiencing it, league one with the squad he had, yes good season.

 Following seasons some shocking football but gradually improving the league position, without spectacular improvement, and then admittedly a spectacular improvement to win the championship.

 Then awful again for most of that premier league experience, and somehow stayed up.

 Puel has a lot of comparisons with Pearson, hated by half the fans, and inconsistent, and had terrible runs, Pearson divided fans opinions, some still think he can come back and all will be rosy.

Looking at his management career since leaving, for me it proves how much of an influence his back room staff had on his success, he’s not same without Shakespeare 

Thanks 

I didn’t realise he suffered from the shits, explains a lot of the confused grimacing faces he pulls.

[STUHILL]

I do think it's a valid point to suggest that Shakey and Walsh had a very big impact on Pearson's success. His record without them, has been very poor.

 

That's not to take any credit away from what he achieved with us, but just an acknowledgement at how important those two were as well and maybe a reason to why he has struggled ever since. 

[Lizhang]

Pearson claims he is being sabotaged from within the club now. He still has all the confidence in the players, and claims they are mentally exhausted, which is funny considering the problems started (as well as the first time he brought this up) weeks ago, and the season just started. It is not a technical or tactical problem (although the team resorts to "kick and see" football) according to Pearson. As to how exactly people within the club -who are not the players- are sabotaging him and influencing the game on the pitch, is something that remains a mistery.

[elvisfmcfly]

5 minutes ago, Lizhang said:

Pearson claims he is being sabotaged from within the club now. He still has all the confidence in the players, and claims they are mentally exhausted, which is funny considering the problems started (as well as the first time he brought this up) weeks ago, and the season just started. It is not a technical or tactical problem (although the team resorts to "kick and see" football) according to Pearson. As to how exactly people within the club -who are not the players- are sabotaging him and influencing the game on the pitch, is something that remains a mistery.

Pearson out!

[Foxxed]

Maybe that ****ing ostrich is the saboteur.

[Mark_w]

1 hour ago, Lizhang said:

Pearson claims he is being sabotaged from within the club now. He still has all the confidence in the players, and claims they are mentally exhausted, which is funny considering the problems started (as well as the first time he brought this up) weeks ago, and the season just started. It is not a technical or tactical problem (although the team resorts to "kick and see" football) according to Pearson. As to how exactly people within the club -who are not the players- are sabotaging him and influencing the game on the pitch, is something that remains a mistery.

Balloonhead alert.

[Foxes1]

2 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Pearson claims he is being sabotaged from within the club now. He still has all the confidence in the players, and claims they are mentally exhausted, which is funny considering the problems started (as well as the first time he brought this up) weeks ago, and the season just started. It is not a technical or tactical problem (although the team resorts to "kick and see" football) according to Pearson. As to how exactly people within the club -who are not the players- are sabotaging him and influencing the game on the pitch, is something that remains a mistery.

Isn't Jon Rudkin at Leuven working behind the scenes if so that is where the trouble may be.

[gurru991]

5 hours ago, Foxes1 said:

Isn't Jon Rudkin at Leuven working behind the scenes if so that is where the trouble may be.

We haven't had a go at Jon for a while. Great idea, lets blame it all on Jon.

Edited 21 September 2018 by gurru991

[Guest]

I'm leuven it.

[baldeagle]

5 hours ago, Lizhang said:

Pearson claims he is being sabotaged from within the club now. He still has all the confidence in the players, and claims they are mentally exhausted, which is funny considering the problems started (as well as the first time he brought this up) weeks ago, and the season just started. It is not a technical or tactical problem (although the team resorts to "kick and see" football) according to Pearson. As to how exactly people within the club -who are not the players- are sabotaging him and influencing the game on the pitch, is something that remains a mistery.

Talk about Deja Vu . Pretty sure he said a similar thing here when things were not going too well . Either the bloke is totally paranoid or he’s just saying it as an excuse to try and deflect the blame for things not going right 

Edited 21 September 2018 by baldeagle

[Lizhang]

Currently 0-2 down

Edit: full-time

Edited 22 September 2018 by Lizhang