Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[TheUltimateWinner]

Concise version here:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756378/14_November_Outline_Political_Declaration_on_the_Future_Relationship.pdf

[BlueSi13]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Pg 148 "Judgments and orders of the ECJ handed down before the end of the transition period, as well as such judgments and orders handed down after the end of the transition period... shall have binding force in their entirety on and in the United Kingdom.

 

Totally unacceptable. 

Terminal for May now.

 

Absolutely disgraceful.  

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

OK so imagine we hold a second Leave/Remain referendum (as preposterous as that is), what happens if Remain wins it by 52/48?  Soft-Remain?  

 

Those of us that voted leave have been constantly told that we need to respect the wishes of the minority that voted Remain, hence the BRINO we are getting now.  

 

How will the Remain camp respect the wishes of those that voted Leave in this scenario?

 

1

 

They can all have free holidays in Skeggy.

[rachhere]

Goodness know what is going to happen now - what a mess. 

 

Going to reiterate to the husband though who was really annoyed with me when I woke him up in the middle of the night when the referendum result became apparent that my actions were completely justified. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

30 minutes ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

Anyone fancy some night time reading?

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_withdrawal_agreement_0.pdf

 

Where are the pictures?

[yorkie1999]

Well, now that craps out the way, is anyone interested in buying half a ton of frozen bananas (Straight) ?

[Smudge]

27 minutes ago, MattP said:

Pg 148 "Judgments and orders of the ECJ handed down before the end of the transition period, as well as such judgments and orders handed down after the end of the transition period... shall have binding force in their entirety on and in the United Kingdom.

 

Totally unacceptable. 

Doesn't that apply to pending cases not new ones?

[Guest Kopfkino]

25 minutes ago, MattP said:

Pg 148 "Judgments and orders of the ECJ handed down before the end of the transition period, as well as such judgments and orders handed down after the end of the transition period... shall have binding force in their entirety on and in the United Kingdom.

 

Totally unacceptable. 

 

 It's very convenient that misses out "proceedings referred to in Articles 86 and 87". As if its somehow unreasonable that whilst in transition (effectively still a member without the privileges) or if we don't fulfil the obligations we are committing to that the ECJ could rule on that. Of course it looks terrible when you miss key parts.

[Buce]

 

I know it's people speaking in haste but the vitriol aimed at May and the Tories on this bloke's twitter is startling:

 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

15 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

It's very convenient that misses out "proceedings referred to in Articles 86 and 87". As if its somehow unreasonable that whilst in transition (effectively still a member without the privileges) or if we don't fulfil the obligations we are committing to that the ECJ could rule on that. Of course it looks terrible when you miss key parts.

Fair enough, was lifted off Twitter.

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Who are the likely runners then?

 

Boris, Davis, Gove, Sajid all possible - I can see Hunt and Raab thinking about it.

 

Clearly not the time for Davison or JRM.

 

 

If 48 Tory MPs submit no-confidence letters, that only triggers a vote of confidence in May, not a leadership election, as I understand it.

 

Those opposed to May would have to win the no-confidence vote to be sure of getting a leadership contest.

So, they'd need about 158 Tory MPs to vote "no confidence" against May - though she might opt to go if she only won narrowly.

Will 50%+ of Tory MPs vote against her? Maybe, but maybe not.....there might even be some MPs who'd vote down her deal but wouldn't vote to change leader.

 

Also, as I understand it, if May survives a confidence vote, there then cannot be a party leadership election for 12 months (unless May resigns voluntarily before then). 

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

If 48 Tory MPs submit no-confidence letters, that only triggers a vote of confidence in May, not a leadership election, as I understand it.

 

Those opposed to May would have to win the no-confidence vote to be sure of getting a leadership contest.

So, they'd need about 158 Tory MPs to vote "no confidence" against May - though she might opt to go if she only won narrowly.

Will 50%+ of Tory MPs vote against her? Maybe, but maybe not.....there might even be some MPs who'd vote down her deal but wouldn't vote to change leader.

 

Also, as I understand it, if May survives a confidence vote, there then cannot be a party leadership election for 12 months (unless May resigns voluntarily before then). 

 

According to this it would trigger a leadership contest.

[Alf Bentley]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

According to this it would trigger a leadership contest.

 

BBC say otherwise: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45953182

So does New Statesman: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/how-remove-conservative-leader

Likewise Full Fact: https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

....and Channel 4: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/what-would-it-take-to-trigger-a-conservative-leadership-election

 

Can't trust The Guardian! 

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

BBC say otherwise: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45953182

So does New Statesman: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/how-remove-conservative-leader

Likewise Full Fact: https://fullfact.org/law/conservative-leadership-contest/

....and Channel 4: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/what-would-it-take-to-trigger-a-conservative-leadership-election

 

Can't trust The Guardian! 

 

 

Believe it or not, it was just the first hit on Google and I didn't bother to delve further.

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

 

Believe it or not, it was just the first hit on Google and I didn't bother to delve further.

 

 

That's what you get for trusting liberal elite establishment media like The Guardian.

You should trust liberal elite establishment media like the BBC instead. 

 

(Will probably find out all the others have it wrong now! Did try to consult the Conservative Party's own site but it was all too impenetrable - and I started feeling a bit ill and uneasy browsing there...)

[yorkie1999]

Nigel Farage should be made prime minister, he’s the one who made all those promises, he’s the one who should now follow them through. Anything for a bit of anarchy in the uk.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Nigel Farage should be made prime minister, he’s the one who made all those promises, he’s the one who should now follow them through. Anything for a bit of anarchy in the uk.

 

Following that logic, surely Johnny Rotten would be a better choice?

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

 

 

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Following that logic, surely Johnny Rotten would be a better choice?

 

 

 

 

Beat me to it! 

 

Lydon/Rotten expresses some questionable views himself sometimes, mind you (pro-Brexit, I think).....though still a better option than Farage or Boris.

 

 

Edited 14 November 2018 by Alf Bentley

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

That's what you get for trusting liberal elite establishment media like The Guardian.

You should trust liberal elite establishment media like the BBC instead. 

 

(Will probably find out all the others have it wrong now! Did try to consult the Conservative Party's own site but it was all too impenetrable - and I started feeling a bit ill and uneasy browsing there...)

 

The consensus seems to be that it triggers a vote of no confidence, which is then followed by a leadership contest which TM cannot enter, should she lose the vote.

 

The grauniad is the only one saying differently.

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

The consensus seems to be that it triggers a vote of no confidence, which is then followed by a leadership contest which TM cannot enter, should she lose the vote.

 

The grauniad is the only one saying differently.

 

So, May's opponents would have to be confident that they had the support of 150+ Tory MPs.....quite apart from the difficulty of getting a replacement leader elected quickly enough not to derail the Brexit timetable, politics and business if they do manage to ditch May.

 

Rees-Mogg was on C4 News. While rejecting the deal, he said he hadn't put a "no confidence" letter in.

[Buce]

Just now, Alf Bentley said:

 

So, May's opponents would have to be confident that they had the support of 150+ Tory MPs.....quite apart from the difficulty of getting a replacement leader elected quickly enough not to derail the Brexit timetable, politics and business if they do manage to ditch May.

 

Rees-Mogg was on C4 News. While rejecting the deal, he said he hadn't put a "no confidence" letter in.

 

Rumours of a resignation tonight:

 

 

[bovril]

18 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Nigel Farage should be made prime minister, he’s the one who made all those promises, he’s the one who should now follow them through. Anything for a bit of anarchy in the uk.

I think he has other concerns at the moment...

[Paninistickers]

Anyone clued up enough to know why Gove is backing this deal? 

 

What's he playing at?

[Dr The Singh]

1 minute ago, Paninistickers said:

Anyone clued up enough to know why Gove is backing this deal? 

 

What's he playing at?

It's a good deal?

[fuchsntf]

Ranieri for PM...TMay for Fulham.