Kelechi Iheanacho / Nacho Man

[Countryfox]

29 minutes ago, murphy said:

He is definitely not up to being a lone striker as cover for Vardy.  

And that’s it ...  in a nutshell.  100%.  Never was and never will be.  Not in a million years.  

 

I know Clod is building...   I know Clod does not/cannot buy anyone in this transfer window...   but as a strong ambitious prem team we desperately need back up for JV ...    RIGHT NOW !!    ‘Giving him a chance’ isn’t a good enough answer for me ....   if he’s a fookin confidence player get him out on loan !

[Guest]

4 hours ago, murphy said:

I get that you're trying to provide balance here and I agree with you that there is a lack of intelligent movement throughout the team. but with Kelechi, aren't you trying to defend him by listing his weaknesses?  ie it's not his fault because he's no good in the air.  It's not his fault because he is not good at running the channels etc.

 

I have to ask, what is he good at?

 

Finsihing?                Don't know.  Scored very few goals but hasn't missed a hatful either.

Pace?                      Nope. 

Movement?             No

Aerial ability?           No

Positioning?             No

Tackling?                  No

Pressing?                 No

Heart and desire?    You must be joking.

 

After being so comfortably pocketed by a League 2 defence at the weekend, I just don't think he has what it takes to be a number 9.  He looks better as a number 10 and has provided some assists, but he is behind Maddison and probably Ghezzal in that role.  He is definitely not up to being a lone striker as cover for Vardy.  

Haha I suppose I am, really. He's certainly not the most well-rounded footballer I've ever seen. I just think if you're going to criticise him, criticise him for things that he's actually done wrong. Lack of movement, poor decisions, wasting chances - fair enough, that's on him. But there's no point having a go at him for not winning flick-ons against centre-backs - he's just naturally shit in the air, that's not really something he can change. It's like moaning at Albrighton for not beating his full-back for pace, he just can't do it. 

 

You'll be glad to hear I've now officially run out of ways to defend him. I just want him to do well. He's a young lad who got to come on and score tap-ins playing with some of the world's best players and winning trophies, and now he's second choice behind a 31-year-old with a dodgy groin and gets booed when he comes on. I imagine it's not just us who are disappointed with how it's gone.

Edited 9 January 2019 by Guest

[STUHILL]

I think Puel has given him enough chances to show us something more than what he has. You could again argue his young age is a factor, similar to Gray but both of those are wearing thin, especially when you see players like Chilwell and Choudary step up and take their chances. 

 

The only thing you could say, is that he is not suited to playing without someone alongside him, but it is still a stretch to think that will miraculously turn him into the £25million star striker many thought he would be.

 

I think along with Gray, he should still be given the second half of the season to show us something that means he is still worth holding on to, or at least not pushing him way down the pecking order with signings, which I think is the likelihood if either do stay beyond the summer.

 

I imagine he still has some reputation left since his Man City days and so we may still get another Prem Club to bite, but of course we would likely have to accept a loss and move on. Gray should also perhaps move on in the Summer too if he fails to make any genuine impact over the next 17 games. Yes, he is young and shows flashes of brilliance but they really are too far in between and he has been here long enough now and it will benefit his career to start fresh somewhere new. 

 

Very happy for either or both to prove me wrong though and have a real breakthrough 6 months! 

[Clever Fox]

There's no doubt his confidence is gone. That takes time to rebuild, We don't have the  space in the team to help him recover. No more than we have for Gray. 

that's why it would be better if they both left on loan now to help them.

Then reassess the situation in the Summer. It would also allow us bring someone else in.

[davelcfc100]

He looked like he was a player towards the of last season and pre season. What happened.

[Monsell1976]

55 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

There's no doubt his confidence is gone. That takes time to rebuild, We don't have the  space in the team to help him recover. No more than we have for Gray. 

that's why it would be better if they both left on loan now to help them.

Then reassess the situation in the Summer. It would also allow us bring someone else in.

Gray development has stalled, and isn’t very good, defo loan.

 Nacho needs to play with a partner, puel has ruined his confidence playing him as a lone striker, he’s nothing like vardy, but expects him to do vardys roll, rather than play to nacho strengths

[Guest MattP]

20 minutes ago, davelcfc100 said:

He looked like he was a player towards the of last season and pre season. What happened.

We started playing competitive matches where effort and desire is needed.

[murphy]

13 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

Gray development has stalled, and isn’t very good, defo loan.

 Nacho needs to play with a partner, puel has ruined his confidence playing him as a lone striker, he’s nothing like vardy, but expects him to do vardys roll, rather than play to nacho strengths

Genuine question.  How do you play to Nacho's strengths and what are they?

[Tielemans63]

A big hello to our African fans from everyone here at Foxestalk. 

[yorkie1999]

Callum Wilson..£50 million, we could have bought him for 3 and would never have had to bother with nacho!

[oxtonfox]

On 31/12/2018 at 20:52, marbles said:

Dont know why, but I giggled for 5 minutes over this one line

If I was to face a firing squad I would choose Gray, Ndidi and Okazaki to do the shooting. i’d be comfortable of surviving that ordeal.

[Monsell1976]

9 hours ago, murphy said:

Genuine question.  How do you play to Nacho's strengths and what are they?

 First don’t ruin his confidence by playing him only when vardy is injured or tired, and not in the vardy role of sitting on the shoulder of the last man, he’s a young lad and the same as all players, need regular games to play at their best.

 

 For me he cannot play a lone striker role, but his strength when his confidence is back, is in a two, where his partner creates space for him to move into.

 

 Not comparing him to lineker, but he’s a similar style of player if you look from his Man City days, he’s a good finisher in and around the box, and a poacher, but offers little else, but has the potential to score plenty of goals, scored plenty for Man City and his country, but only seems to struggle here.

 

 The way puel plays him as a lone striker, he’s isolated like vardy, and gets frustrated, and comes very deep into midfield to get involved, which like previously mentioned, he’s a poacher, and it’s not his strength.

 

 I would hate to be a striker under puel, even vardy who shows his frustration on the pitch, and in the press, as we have so little attacking threat behind them, they are starved of any sort of service, and unless you have the pace of vardy you have no chance of scoring, who else in scoring regular for us, from midfield or anywhere, we are so reliant on vardys pace, but on here a young kid gets thrown under the bus, and called shit.

 

 Ok nacho play a few more this season, but where was the Okazaki threads, throwing him under the bus, he’s scored one goal in 40 games, akinbyi scored 11 goals in 60 appearances for us, and remains for some our worst ever buy, but wait Okazaki won the league and is a fans favourite, Okazaki didn’t cost 25 mill, Okazaki works hard, even though he’s always falling over and does little with it.

 

We need to give some of our newer players time, and it might take a more positive manager to bring the best out of them, but with a few, there are good players in there, but the best is not being allowed to come out of them

 

[woznotwos]

10 hours ago, murphy said:

Genuine question.  How do you play to Nacho's strengths and what are they?

No-one really complained last season when he was tucked in behind vardy . I thought he was doing very well for his age. Playing him out on front on his own isn't the same.

[Foxboy]

23 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

 First don’t ruin his confidence by playing him only when vardy is injured or tired, and not in the vardy role of sitting on the shoulder of the last man, he’s a young lad and the same as all players, need regular games to play at their best.

 

 For me he cannot play a lone striker role, but his strength when his confidence is back, is in a two, where his partner creates space for him to move into.

 

 Not comparing him to lineker, but he’s a similar style of player if you look from his Man City days, he’s a good finisher in and around the box, and a poacher, but offers little else, but has the potential to score plenty of goals, scored plenty for Man City and his country, but only seems to struggle here.

 

 The way puel plays him as a lone striker, he’s isolated like vardy, and gets frustrated, and comes very deep into midfield to get involved, which like previously mentioned, he’s a poacher, and it’s not his strength.

 

 I would hate to be a striker under puel, even vardy who shows his frustration on the pitch, and in the press, as we have so little attacking threat behind them, they are starved of any sort of service, and unless you have the pace of vardy you have no chance of scoring, who else in scoring regular for us, from midfield or anywhere, we are so reliant on vardys pace, but on here a young kid gets thrown under the bus, and called shit.

 

 Ok nacho play a few more this season, but where was the Okazaki threads, throwing him under the bus, he’s scored one goal in 40 games, akinbyi scored 11 goals in 60 appearances for us, and remains for some our worst ever buy, but wait Okazaki won the league and is a fans favourite, Okazaki didn’t cost 25 mill, Okazaki works hard, even though he’s always falling over and does little with it.

 

We need to give some of our newer players time, and it might take a more positive manager to bring the best out of them, but with a few, there are good players in there, but the best is not being allowed to come out of them

 

Have to disagree with this. I think ihaenacho is very similar in style to Gabriel Jesus, who is doing very as a lone striker for city. They are both poachers with great finishing. The only difference being Man City’s midfield and wide players create at least 3 clear goal scoring opportunities for Jesus and our midfield and wide players create none for ihaenacho.

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Monsell1976 said:

 First don’t ruin his confidence by playing him only when vardy is injured or tired, and not in the vardy role of sitting on the shoulder of the last man, he’s a young lad and the same as all players, need regular games to play at their best.

 

 For me he cannot play a lone striker role, but his strength when his confidence is back, is in a two, where his partner creates space for him to move into.

 

 Not comparing him to lineker, but he’s a similar style of player if you look from his Man City days, he’s a good finisher in and around the box, and a poacher, but offers little else, but has the potential to score plenty of goals, scored plenty for Man City and his country, but only seems to struggle here.

 

 The way puel plays him as a lone striker, he’s isolated like vardy, and gets frustrated, and comes very deep into midfield to get involved, which like previously mentioned, he’s a poacher, and it’s not his strength.

 

 I would hate to be a striker under puel, even vardy who shows his frustration on the pitch, and in the press, as we have so little attacking threat behind them, they are starved of any sort of service, and unless you have the pace of vardy you have no chance of scoring, who else in scoring regular for us, from midfield or anywhere, we are so reliant on vardys pace, but on here a young kid gets thrown under the bus, and called shit.

 

 Ok nacho play a few more this season, but where was the Okazaki threads, throwing him under the bus, he’s scored one goal in 40 games, akinbyi scored 11 goals in 60 appearances for us, and remains for some our worst ever buy, but wait Okazaki won the league and is a fans favourite, Okazaki didn’t cost 25 mill, Okazaki works hard, even though he’s always falling over and does little with it.

 

We need to give some of our newer players time, and it might take a more positive manager to bring the best out of them, but with a few, there are good players in there, but the best is not being allowed to come out of them

 

We have little choice but to play him in Vardy's absence as we have no one else.  I wish we had.

 

This idea about being an isolated lone striker isn't entirely true.  Puel plays with a number 10 in behind, just like we did in 4-4-2 when we won the title.  The difference is we are a possession team now rather than counter attack but he wouldn't have the pace to play that either,

 

 Personally, I think he is better as a number 10 than a poacher.  It is his preferred position, according to the player himself.  I still have no idea what his actual strengths are though.

 

He's been here 18 months now, getting on for 50 games.  He's an international and had 40 odd premier league games with Man City before that.  He is 22 but you can't claim that he is some raw kid, he was supposed to be a marquee signing.  I'm tired of hearing about low confidence now.  He's had time and opportunity and for me the jury is in.  Not good enough.  Not nearly good enough.

 

 He doesn't help himself by letting his head drop and especially by his complete lack of movement.  He can't expect everything laid on a plate for him.  You say you'd hate to play as a lone striker in this team, well I'd hate to play no.10 behind nacho watching him shuffle around like he's handcuffed to the centre half.  

Edited 10 January 2019 by murphy

[mozartfox]

41 minutes ago, Foxboy said:

Have to disagree with this. I think ihaenacho is very similar in style to Gabriel Jesus, who is doing very as a lone striker for city. They are both poachers with great finishing. The only difference being Man City’s midfield and wide players create at least 3 clear goal scoring opportunities for Jesus and our midfield and wide players create none for ihaenacho.

Agree.   Our creativity is poor and our style of play does not suit Nacho (or Vards).  Pumping long balls up front with his back to the goal, as we did at Newport was ridiculous. They will both score more goals if they were given more chances.  Nacho is crucified because he misses the 'one' chance per game the current system serves him up.

 

There is a player there.

 

 

[murphy]

3 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Agree.   Our creativity is poor and our style of play does not suit Nacho (or Vards).  Pumping long balls up front with his back to the goal, as we did at Newport was ridiculous. They will both score more goals if they were given more chances.  Nacho is crucified because he misses the 'one' chance per game the current system serves him up.

 

There is a player there.

 

 

?

 

We had 24 attempts on goal v Newport

[Bablemikey]

He's been largely pretty disappointing. I did wonder whether Puel played him (& Shinzi) against Newport so he could score a few & maybe get some confidence or momentum going. 

They both had enough chances, particularly first half, but still failed and didn't look to me as though they really fancied it.

Not sure where Puel goes from here with him but I am very doubtful he's going to be the standard of striker we want.

[Jattdogg]

Was hoping  we would hear that he was loaned out to a turkish side...think he could use a step away from us to build up some confidence 

[Monsell1976]

24 minutes ago, murphy said:

We have little choice but to play him in Vardy's absence as we have no one else.  I wish we had.

 

This idea about being an isolated lone striker isn't entirely true.  Puel plays with a number 10 in behind, just like we did in 4-4-2 when we won the title.  The difference is we are a possession team now rather than counter attack but he wouldn't have the pace to play that either,

 

 Personally, I think he is better as a number 10 than a poacher.  It is his preferred position, according to the player himself.  I still have no idea what his actual strengths are though.

 

He's been here 18 months now, getting on for 50 games.  He's an international and had 40 odd premier league games with Man City before that.  He is 22 but you can't claim that he is some raw kid, he was supposed to be a marquee signing.  I'm tired of hearing about low confidence now.  He's had time and opportunity and for me the jury is in.  Not good enough.  Not nearly good enough.

 

 He doesn't help himself by letting his head drop and especially by his complete lack of movement.  He can't expect everything laid on a plate for him.  You say you'd hate to play as a lone striker in this team, well I'd hate to play no.10 behind nacho watching him shuffle around like he's handcuffed to the centre half.  

Amazing how people see the games differently, gray plays up front him against 4 defenders, can’t get near the ball, vardy breaks up front on his own, looks up surrounded by 4 defenders, no options as everyone else is to deep, to say the strikers no matter who it is, isn’t isolated and starved of service is laughable.

 

 The only difference is attitude and confidence, vardy is used to little of the ball, and feeding of scraps, and keeps going, but I would argue some of the balls he used to chase he doesn’t anymore, wether that’s injury, or just **** it, got no chance, save energy, so I agree, nacho is a player that needs an arm around them more than others, and is a confidence player, and when fans boo, him coming for vardy would do him the world of good.

 

 If I was him I would leave, and then we will see if he’s shit, I truly believe, the right manager, playing him in his preferred role, regular, he will score goals at a good rate.

 

 In the same breath that your saying he’s had time, is your jury out on gray, who has had even longer, is he found wanting? 

[Clever Fox]

11 hours ago, Monsell1976 said:

Gray development has stalled, and isn’t very good, defo loan.

 Nacho needs to play with a partner, puel has ruined his confidence playing him as a lone striker, he’s nothing like vardy, but expects him to do vardys roll, rather than play to nacho strengths

Gray has stalled yet he has shown improvement in some games, But we need consistency when you're looking for top 10 finish. He is trying but under a lot of pressure. Which is why a loan could be perfect for him. It has been suggested already, but a loan swap with Barnes might do them both good.

 

Nacho, is struggling under the weight of expectation. Your right our system doesn't suit him but he hasn't helped himself either. His touch is poor and that's only practice. Get it's no better now than when he arrived.

Puel is trying to find something that suits him without much success. I'm not sure he will ever be good enough for the premiership. Which is why a move to a good club on loan to rebuild his confidence could be a blessing for him. A new team with a different style will prove his worth either way.

[Foxboy]

22 minutes ago, murphy said:

?

 

We had 24 attempts on goal v Newport

24 attempts vs Newport is not something to brag about. Especially when a lot of those attempts were shots outside the box. We didn’t create enough ‘clear’ goal scoring oppurtunities. The ball was constantly jumped into the box from deep and left ihaenacho to fight against two ugly bastard league 2 CBs. Our wide players are not good enough at creating opportunities. Hence why when mahrez was in the team it was always mahrez who created chances for Vardy. I believe mahrez assisting Vardy created the most goals out of any duo in the top 5 leagues the season we won the title. 

[mozartfox]

36 minutes ago, murphy said:

?

 

We had 24 attempts on goal v Newport

Not all from Nacho!  So we are blaming Nacho now for everyone's misses.  Marvelous.

[murphy]

30 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Not all from Nacho!  So we are blaming Nacho now for everyone's misses.  Marvelous.

No, but you said we didn't create anything.  Actually we did. 

 

If Nacho had the ability to get away from his marker or find some space I'm sure he would have been able to find a few more chances coming his way.

 

Also, you bemoaned the fact that we pump long balls to him.  Maybe we did against Newport, but the idea that we are a long ball team under Puel is absurd.  We are the opposite of that and often not direct enough.  We were much more a hoofball side under the previous two managers.

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Monsell1976 said:

Amazing how people see the games differently, gray plays up front him against 4 defenders, can’t get near the ball, vardy breaks up front on his own, looks up surrounded by 4 defenders, no options as everyone else is to deep, to say the strikers no matter who it is, isn’t isolated and starved of service is laughable.

 

 The only difference is attitude and confidence, vardy is used to little of the ball, and feeding of scraps, and keeps going, but I would argue some of the balls he used to chase he doesn’t anymore, wether that’s injury, or just **** it, got no chance, save energy, so I agree, nacho is a player that needs an arm around them more than others, and is a confidence player, and when fans boo, him coming for vardy would do him the world of good.

 

 If I was him I would leave, and then we will see if he’s shit, I truly believe, the right manager, playing him in his preferred role, regular, he will score goals at a good rate.

 

 In the same breath that your saying he’s had time, is your jury out on gray, who has had even longer, is he found wanting? 

This thread is not about Gray, but while he has been often disappointing, it's just not on the same scale as Nacho who has IMO been absolutely woeful.  Also Gray has attributes - pace and skill.  Often no end product, but at least something to work with.  I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me what KI's attributes are.

 

It's also a question of expectation.  Nacho was a big money signing that came with a reputation but has been found to be poor away from that Man City side.  I was really excited when we signed him.

 

I also expect any player that pulls on the shirt to show a damn sight more commitment than I'm seeing from him and that is the really infuriating thing for me.  I don't actually enjoy being on this side of the argument about one of our own players, but it is the lack of application that is testing my patience and the reason, I think, that he gets booed by some.  For the record I absolutely don't condone that.

Edited 10 January 2019 by murphy