Kelechi Iheanacho / Nacho Man

[reynard]

The way we set up it is either him or Vardy. Our starting line up doesn't seem to incorporate two strikers most of the time though that can change during a game.

He obviously has some talent but a number of things concern me.

1 Pace  He is much slower than I thought he would be. Maybe this is a misconception but to play on the shoulder you need to be speedy like Vardy and he seems to lack this.

2 Workrate. Of course charging around like a mad thing like Savage used to isn't the only way of demonstrating this but, I don't recall him ever really closing defenders down or indeed putting in many tackles.

3 How does he fit into our style of play? He isn't as good as Verdy in the air and doesn't look comfortable with his back to goal.

 

He's obviously low on confidence at the moment and his first touch against Burnley was very poor. He sort of reminds me of Lineker and maybe that is what he is, a poacher who occasionally scores from outside the box, but, who really relies on his intelligence and movement in the box and requires the chances to be provided for him.

[Hanan96]

17 minutes ago, reynard said:

The way we set up it is either him or Vardy. Our starting line up doesn't seem to incorporate two strikers most of the time though that can change during a game.

He obviously has some talent but a number of things concern me.

1 Pace  He is much slower than I thought he would be. Maybe this is a misconception but to play on the shoulder you need to be speedy like Vardy and he seems to lack this.

2 Workrate. Of course charging around like a mad thing like Savage used to isn't the only way of demonstrating this but, I don't recall him ever really closing defenders down or indeed putting in many tackles.

3 How does he fit into our style of play? He isn't as good as Verdy in the air and doesn't look comfortable with his back to goal.

 

He's obviously low on confidence at the moment and his first touch against Burnley was very poor. He sort of reminds me of Lineker and maybe that is what he is, a poacher who occasionally scores from outside the box, but, who really relies on his intelligence and movement in the box and requires the chances to be provided for him.

Considering we are now not anymore a team who can only do counter attack, why only consider pace, workrate, and aerial duel? 

[The Doctor]

On 12/11/2018 at 10:03, Houdini Logic said:

I think people forget that he has never been given a full chance at either Man City or Leicester. He's so far been a bit part player and when you see his stats based on actual minutes played, I personally think it's impressive.

 

Man City

He only played 1281 minutes of football (which totals 14 full games) over 2 seasons at Man City in the EPL and scored 12 and assisted 4.

He played 176 minutes of Champions league football (2 games) and scored 2 goals.

He played 6 FA Cup games and scored 5 goals.

 

Leicester

He's played 1437 minutes (16 games) over 2 seasons and scored 4 goals and assisted 6.

He played 5 FA Cup games and scored 4.

 

He's only just turned 22 and could really do with the fans support and help to build him up, though sadly I can already start to see it turning the other way...

Those league stats are fantastic - equivalent of 0.86 G/A per 90 minutes. Honestly with the way Vardy keeps missing big chances (Everton and Cardiff 1v1s, Burnley cleared off the line), I'd be tempted to argue it's time Nacho got a run as the lead striker 

[breadandcheese]

He's not good enough. We got taken by Man City.

[jayfox26]

I think he is good enough but we need to create chances for him. Vardy has always been good at creating chances for himself by closing defenders down quickly and forcing mistakes and chasing lost causes but Nacho isn't Vardy. If we create the chances for him though he will get goals. Whether hes the long term replacement for Vardy im not sure but he certainly has potential to be  good here if we give him a run of games and create good chances for him. Vardy had a good understanding with Drinkwater as he always seemed to know where he'd be, we need the likes of Maddison to work closely with Nacho to understand his game and the runs he makes and positions he gets into. 

[lcfc matt]

Maybe I’ve got him all wrong but at the back end of last season he started to look like the player he did at Man City.and with abit of confidence and maybe with abit of guidance from caddy maybe he could still turn out to be that gem.i guess only time will tell.

[reynard]

1 hour ago, Hanan96 said:

Considering we are now not anymore a team who can only do counter attack, why only consider pace, workrate, and aerial duel? 

You still need to have these attributes however you play. Man City keep the ball but they also work very hard to get it back. Liverpool play counter attacking football but have real pace up front.

He's an alternative to Vardy really but presently doesn't do any of the things Vardy does as well as he does.

[Hanan96]

1 hour ago, reynard said:

You still need to have these attributes however you play. Man City keep the ball but they also work very hard to get it back. Liverpool play counter attacking football but have real pace up front.

He's an alternative to Vardy really but presently doesn't do any of the things Vardy does as well as he does.

Needed and necessary is different. 

You were solely highlighting those pace, workrate, and aerial duel. Even messi are weak in all of those 3 and still the key player in Barcelona. 

 

So we play possession game. We need passing and creativity. He's a striker, finishing is important, none of those you were talking to at all. You rate somebody just by picking random attributes.

 

Pace could be gotten from the wings, workrate is important especially for defensive midfielder. Aerial duels? Whipped crosses, through ball, penetration will do, not just aerial. During set pieces, another position player can just fill the box. 

 

Those attributes are needed, yes, but not necessary. No every striker should be Ronaldo esque to thrive, especially for possession based. Even counter attack based didn't always need all of those 3. 

 

[lcfc sheff]

needs an extended run in the side

[reynard]

2 hours ago, Hanan96 said:

Needed and necessary is different. 

You were solely highlighting those pace, workrate, and aerial duel. Even messi are weak in all of those 3 and still the key player in Barcelona. 

 

So we play possession game. We need passing and creativity. He's a striker, finishing is important, none of those you were talking to at all. You rate somebody just by picking random attributes.

 

Pace could be gotten from the wings, workrate is important especially for defensive midfielder. Aerial duels? Whipped crosses, through ball, penetration will do, not just aerial. During set pieces, another position player can just fill the box. 

 

Those attributes are needed, yes, but not necessary. No every striker should be Ronaldo esque to thrive, especially for possession based. Even counter attack based didn't always need all of those 3. 

 

Sorry but you are getting into the realm of semantics here. I think suggesting he may well be a similar striker to Lineker pretty much covers his type of forward. I was comparing him to Vardy, as you well know, and unfortunateley for him he comes out second best in all areas at this stage in his career.

You also seem to fail to understand that we are currently setting up with only one striker and if you want me to say does he have the necessary attributes to play that role then he hasn't demonstrated to me that he does.

 

[Hanan96]

3 minutes ago, reynard said:

Sorry but you are getting into the realm of semantics here. I think suggesting he may well be a similar striker to Lineker pretty much covers his type of forward. I was comparing him to Vardy, as you well know, and unfortunateley for him he comes out second best in all areas at this stage in his career.

You also seem to fail to understand that we are currently setting up with only one striker and if you want me to say does he have the necessary attributes to play that role then he hasn't demonstrated to me that he does.

 

I did understand we play with one striker of course. Most team did. Even Messis Barcelona who I mention did. 

And I never says he's better than Vardy at the moment. 

What I wanted to point out is that if we only consider few needed, not necessarily atributes, it will often misleading. 

I can made gray better than vardy by just highlighting dribbling, crossing, and flair and mention striker like Maradona, while we know how gray, when played as center forward, compared to vardy is way off. 

[Smudge]

Apart from his poor first touch issues, there were a couple of times he was presented with a 50/50 ball and looked slow to react. I'm not sure if he's lazy, unfit or mentally unaware in those situations. Ever which way something isn't right at the moment. Hopefully he just needs time.

[Topman]

15 hours ago, Hanan96 said:

Thats unfair comparison. Workrate is okazaki strength and nacho weakness. 

 

Its like compare wes morgan and demarai gray dribbling ability, surely favor one side. 

 

Or let say like this. How many goal and assist did he made? Nah

Just based on what i saw on Saturday, Shinji should of came on ahead of Nacho

[Arriba Los Zorros]

He's wank. He's been here long enough and done nothing, simply living off some idea of potential that's not there. Weak mentally doesn't apply himself and frankly not that talented. Move him on and get someone suited to playing in his position.

[Hanan96]

5 hours ago, Topman said:

Just based on what i saw on Saturday, Shinji should of came on ahead of Nacho

One game are always enough hmm

[willie-bell-in-rothley]

On 14/11/2018 at 04:04, Hanan96 said:

Thats unfair comparison. Workrate is okazaki strength and nacho weakness. 

 

Its like compare wes morgan and demarai gray dribbling ability, surely favor one side. 

 

Or let say like this. How many goal and assist did he made? Nah

ok, what is Nacho's strength ?????

[Mike Oxlong]

It seems that since acquiring Vardy, in terms of getting strikers in our scouting team couldn’t hit a barn door. 

 

But nor do there seem to be any signs that our coaching of strikers actually improves them. 

 

That said Nacho is still only 21. I didn’t think Chilwell would become the player he has. I really do hope that he proves me wrong too. 

[volpeazzurro]

22 hours ago, reynard said:

The way we set up it is either him or Vardy. Our starting line up doesn't seem to incorporate two strikers most of the time though that can change during a game.

He obviously has some talent but a number of things concern me.

1 Pace  He is much slower than I thought he would be. Maybe this is a misconception but to play on the shoulder you need to be speedy like Vardy and he seems to lack this.

2 Workrate. Of course charging around like a mad thing like Savage used to isn't the only way of demonstrating this but, I don't recall him ever really closing defenders down or indeed putting in many tackles.

3 How does he fit into our style of play? He isn't as good as Verdy in the air and doesn't look comfortable with his back to goal.

 

He's obviously low on confidence at the moment and his first touch against Burnley was very poor. He sort of reminds me of Lineker and maybe that is what he is, a poacher who occasionally scores from outside the box, but, who really relies on his intelligence and movement in the box and requires the chances to be provided for him.

I agree with all of that but think his intelligence and movement are poor as well. If you look at someone like Albrighton,  he appears to be on the move most of the time. He makes lots of runs most of which aren't used but they do have the effect of giving the opposition something to think about and occupy one of their players.

Nacho on the other hand rarely does this and often saunters around in the halfway point between the hallway line and penalty area. If you were to take a lazy laguid looking player like Yacubu, if there was the hint or sniff of a chance with one of our wingers, you would see him gravitate to the general area of the penalty spot. Nacho often doesn't and you can often see midfielders overtaking him. This is poor for a supposed striker whatever his age. When Vardy has the ball out wide he should be busting a gut and gambling that the ball might end up in the box. Can't remember the recent game but there was a recent example of this where Vardy cut the ball back across the box and the nearest player was a midfielder. Nacho was meandering around in no man's land and hadn't been involved in any build up play. Vardy glared at him. This is either down to lack of intelligence or idleness. Lineker, Yacubu and Robbie Fowler are all examples of so called 'goal poachers', but their regular scoring didn't purely come by luck or good fortune. 

Edited 15 November 2018 by volpeazzurro

[Dickov22]

17 hours ago, Smudge said:

Apart from his poor first touch issues, there were a couple of times he was presented with a 50/50 ball and looked slow to react. I'm not sure if he's lazy, unfit or mentally unaware in those situations. Ever which way something isn't right at the moment. Hopefully he just needs time.

He’s both lazy and mentally unaware. How much time does the lad want? Will never make it here. 

[Simoken]

10 hours ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

He's wank. He's been here long enough and done nothing, simply living off some idea of potential that's not there. Weak mentally doesn't apply himself and frankly not that talented. Move him on and get someone suited to playing in his position.

No room for discussion then...

[Arriba Los Zorros]

3 minutes ago, Simoken said:

No room for discussion then...

Not for me seen enough of him now. It's like Musa, people don't want to admit that he's a failure because of the price tag and so it takes longer for this to be accepted and then cutting our losses

[Simoken]

8 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Not for me seen enough of him now. It's like Musa, people don't want to admit that he's a failure because of the price tag and so it takes longer for this to be accepted and then cutting our losses

Hmmm, Comparing him to Musa is a little farfetched dont you think? The guy has bags of potential and hes young! and intergrated nicely into a youthful 1st team, I think he is in the right place to develop into something special. Give it some time, maybe a year or two and lets see how hes doing? What annoys me is this rash impatient mentality football has grown into nowadays. As always i see forward rather than now, Hes not getting the form he wants because the squad has too much competition, no offence to Okazaki but hes been far useless this season than Inheanacho? why hasnt he become a target of negativity?

 

With regards to Inheanacho, I like the guy, hes a professional and takes a personal affect to his performances, you can see if when something doesnt pay off on the pitch, he gets frustrated. Plenty of room for improvement. He has some wonderful technique with his shots and has a true eye for goal.

 

PATIENT.

Edited 15 November 2018 by Simoken

[BKLFox]

3 hours ago, willie-bell-in-rothley said:

ok, what is Nacho's strength ?????

He is a natural (instinct) goal scorer something you can’t teach, the rest around that like work rate etc you can as long as the player signs up to it himself, which on most occasions he hasn’t. If he applies himself he will make it here if not then he’ll be off.

[walkerleeds]

1 hour ago, BKLFox said:

He is a natural (instinct) goal scorer something you can’t teach, the rest around that like work rate etc you can as long as the player signs up to it himself, which on most occasions he hasn’t. If he applies himself he will make it here if not then he’ll be off.

 

How long do we give him to improve his workrate etc? We don't put 2-3 chances on a plate like Man City and never will, so he needs to work harder for his chances, but is unable/ unwilling to from what I can see. 

 

This is why Vardy will 100% continue up front and is why calls for Shinji to be ahead of him in the pecking order will continue.

[Hanan96]

Just now, willie-bell-in-rothley said:

ok, what is Nacho's strength ?????

1. Passing. he made way more forward passes, completed passes, and assist. 

2. Creativity. created more chances than the other 2 striker. also the assist mentioned before

3.Dribbling. have more take on success than vardy and okazaki, overshadowed by his first touch, which can improve as vardy did.

4. Potential. as he's still below 25, surely yeat to reach his peak.

 

in case you want the stats

http://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix?matchPeriodType=ninety-minutes&c=p4906e190423,p12865e190423,p12864e190423&s=103,119,112,117,306,101

 

in case you want screenshoots

 

and the stats are made in metrics since okazaki played far fewer matches than those two, so to be fairer