The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

[Facecloth]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

Who do you think he supports?

Sorry, thought I was Spurs, but I was half asleep 

[StanSP]

31 minutes ago, Koke said:

When you prefer moneybags Man City to win the league over us, you know we've arrived in the big time. Pretty funny projection by Spurs fans.

 

"I hate Leicester as much as I hate Liverpool. Fair play to them to win a league title in recent times. But their fans are so entitled to be in the elite, which they really are not, I just cannot stand them. They will not be keeping quiet this season.

Always prefer Man City to win every league title if it cannot be us than any of the other teams"

And what makes Tottenham be in the 'elite' anyway? Not seen them win a Premier League title? 

[Koke]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

And what makes Tottenham be in the 'elite' anyway? Not seen them win a Premier League title? 

 

2 League Cups in 20 years. They've had a couple of good years in the CL but never in a million years are they a supposed "elite" club. 

[ozleicester]

1 minute ago, Koke said:

 

2 League Cups in 20 years. They've had a couple of good years in the CL but never in a million years are they a supposed "elite" club. 

wasnt there 14 minutes...

[Mike Oxlong]

2 minutes ago, Koke said:

 

2 League Cups in 20 years. They've had a couple of good years in the CL but never in a million years are they a supposed "elite" club. 

The beer taps at the new stadium are the most elite thing about them IMO

[HighPeakFox]

12 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

wasnt there 14 minutes...

Shhhh, you'll rouse the inner circle... 

[Guest Markyblue]

59 minutes ago, Koke said:

When you prefer moneybags Man City to win the league over us, you know we've arrived in the big time. Pretty funny projection by Spurs fans.

 

"I hate Leicester as much as I hate Liverpool. Fair play to them to win a league title in recent times. But their fans are so entitled to be in the elite, which they really are not, I just cannot stand them. They will not be keeping quiet this season.

Always prefer Man City to win every league title if it cannot be us than any of the other teams"

To be called entitled by the most entitled fans in football, pure comedy gold at least we have a title win in living memory and not grainy footage in black and white. 

[gerrytaggart]

48 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The second half is silly hyperbole, he knows that as he's writing it, he's going overboard for emphasis, I do it all the time. He's not wrong at his core though, we did lose feebly at OT and we did offer sod all at Anfield. 

 

As for the first bit, he's even more right. Every point we drop is massive from now on if winning the league is the target. 8 is a lot, we've got to go to Man City soon, it could be 11 before we even play them. 

 

I'm thrilled we are where we are, it's great, we're there on merit too. And why not dream of a title race, it all adds to the fun. But unless they collapse drastically, they aren't getting caught. They're a runaway train this season, like it or not this is finally Liverpool's year. 

Drastic collapses are part of their DNA. 

 

How many points did they relinquish last season??? 

 

 

Edited 2 December 2019 by gerrytaggart

[yorkie1999]

11 hours ago, Wet Trump said:

 

When fans of the big three clubs ( i've decided to change it from the big 6 as i feel man u, liverpool and arsenal are historically the top sides and man city chelsea and spurs are short term new money clubs) resort to knocking clubs like ours, we must be doing something right and they're getting twitchy.

[Corky]

2 hours ago, Koke said:

When you prefer moneybags Man City to win the league over us, you know we've arrived in the big time. Pretty funny projection by Spurs fans.

 

"I hate Leicester as much as I hate Liverpool. Fair play to them to win a league title in recent times. But their fans are so entitled to be in the elite, which they really are not, I just cannot stand them. They will not be keeping quiet this season.

Always prefer Man City to win every league title if it cannot be us than any of the other teams"

I do believe we used to have high expectations based on the O'Neill years but actually, what has made this season and the title win better is that we don't expect to be there and are enjoying it as it goes along.

 

Yes you'll get some mouthy twats gobbing off but most of us just want us to play entertaining football, show ambition and try and compete at the top. We aren't entitled in the same way the top teams are.

[davieG]

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/liverpool-leicester-city-premier-league-17347864

 

Liverpool need to take Leicester title challenge as seriously as Man City's
Three reasons why the Foxes are serious contenders to the Reds at the top of the Premier League

ByDan MorganStaff Writer
09:36, 2 DEC 2019
LIVERPOOL FC NEWS

Leicester City will not go away.

The Foxes are keeping Liverpool modest in their quest for a long awaited Premier League title following their last second winner against Everton on Sunday, once again reducing the Reds lead to eight points.

Many remain unfazed by the challenge of the current second place team, taking their lead from the amount of points Jürgen Klopp's men are ahead of Manchester City instead.

Yet Leicester are not a team Liverpool should take lightly, and there are three key reasons why:

 

The manager
Liverpool know Brendan Rodgers all too well. Astonishingly, he is still not rated highly by some of the watching football brief, but he is certainly proving any remaining doubters wrong this season.

It is easy to forget that Rodgers has not only encountered a title-challenge at Liverpool, he has won titles with Celtic. The relevance of those titles shouldn't be lessened, he has gone through the process, as well as facing heartbreak in 2013/14 with Liverpool.

Rodgers is clearly skilled in riding the waves of momentum when his team gets in its stride. Liverpool of all clubs should know just what that can potentially manifest into.

The belief
The celebrations at the end of yesterday's stoppage-time winner against Everton were more than a buzz at scoring a late goal, they were a sign of the belief in the Leicester camp.

Quietly, they will be aware they are pulling away from the rest of the chasing pack, and while Liverpool keep winning, there will remain a belief that eight points is manageable.

Whether they can maintain it, if they have to, remains to be seen, but the fixtures seem to keep being kind to them. And with no European football, they can give all their attention to their efforts to once again challenge for the title.

They've done it before
The most hoodwinking, easily forgettable fact about English football in recent times is that Leicester City actually won the Premier League in 2015.

Forgetting the points tally, there are players in that squad who played in pressure-cooker, must win games which they come through to lift the title. Many of those players remain, none more so than Jamie Vardy, who's form often correlates with his teams' fortunes.

Liverpool have also benefited from their domestic and Champions League exploits from recent times, it should not then be lost the importance of it the more Leicester City prove themselves as a genuine threat to the Reds' hopes.

[Koke]

58 minutes ago, Corky said:

I do believe we used to have high expectations based on the O'Neill years but actually, what has made this season and the title win better is that we don't expect to be there and are enjoying it as it goes along.

 

Yes you'll get some mouthy twats gobbing off but most of us just want us to play entertaining football, show ambition and try and compete at the top. We aren't entitled in the same way the top teams are.

 

I think the accusations are based off us sacking Ranieri and Puel. That our fans demanded more than what borh provided in their last season. Still inaccurate to describe as as wannabe elitist 

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

And what makes Tottenham be in the 'elite' anyway? Not seen them win a Premier League title? 

They've won two titles in their entire history. I could list clubs outside the top flight with more than that.

 

They are just top flight regulars, they don't really do anything else.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Corky said:

I do believe we used to have high expectations based on the O'Neill years but actually, what has made this season and the title win better is that we don't expect to be there and are enjoying it as it goes along.

 

Yes you'll get some mouthy twats gobbing off but most of us just want us to play entertaining football, show ambition and try and compete at the top. We aren't entitled in the same way the top teams are.

Agree with everything tho I don’t remember having that high expectations in O’Neill’s era personally. I was a kid at the time and it blew my mind that we were finishing 9th in the PL and winning League Cups. We had a desperately unfair UEFA Cup experience and when he left for Celtic, it did feel that he’d taken as far as he could, especially with the turmoil above his head at the time (he’d had 3 chairmen in 4 years). 
 

I so tho remember feeling nauseous when Taylor took over and had us top of the league for 2 weeks, albeit for an international break   

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/leicester-city-everton-match-reaction-3598856

 

'Agatha Christie would have been proud' - how the national media reported Leicester City's win over Everton

ByJonny Bonell
08:48, 2 DEC 2019

 

DAILY MAIL
There is an argument that says VAR will cost a manager his job and we are now set to find out if that is true.

Deep into injury time and Marco Silva, Everton’s embattled head coach, had seen a much-improved performance from his side when Kelechi Ihenancho, the Leicester substitute, dashed through. He put the ball confidently past Jordan Pickford but a flag had gone up to disallow the goal.

No guesses for what happened next. A referral to Stockley Park; an agonising wait as little yellow and black lines were dragged around a screen. Then the decision: goal. As the King Power Stadium erupted in joyous celebration, Silva went from being on the brink of a point to simply on the brink.

Leicester’s impressively progressive season continues to flourish but where Everton and Silva go from here is a question that only Farhad Moshiri, the club’s major shareholder, can answer. They have suffered some dreadful blows so far but this season but this one may prove fatal.

It would take someone with a heart of flint not to have sympathy with the Portuguese, who looked like he had lost his last five pound note in a photo finish when the verdict on Ihenancho’s goal was returned. His side had played well but the bare fact – defeat, again – leaves him looking bankrupt.

Thing is, he didn’t deserve this. Everton showed spirit; they fought and they did everything they could – but will it mean anything to Moshiri? If he limps on to the Merseyside derby on Wednesday, another defeat will surely signal the end.

‘I’m not the right person to speak,’ said Silva, when asked if he would be on the touchline at Anfield. ‘We have to stay calm.’

That is something he has consistently managed to do. A week in the spotlight with his future being debated did not distract him. Silva showed the days he had spent at Finch Farm were not idle and his decision to play a three-man defence carried a message to his team: do not lose.

 

 

THE GUARDIAN
They think it’s all over – but it’s not yet. Leicester kept the Premier League title race alive here by plundering a win in stoppage time, Kelechi Iheanacho’s goal keeping Brendan Rodgers’ side within striking distance of Liverpool. Yes, eight points is within striking distance for this impressive Leicester side, who have now scored more goals and conceded fewer than Liverpool this season.

As for Marco Silva’s reign at Everton, maybe that will be over soon. His position is expected to be discussed on Monday but if the Portuguese is sacked, it will not be because of this performance. Everton played well, forcing Leicester to show all of their resourcefulness to dig out a victory. Six wins on the trot represents Leicester’s best run since 1962-63. They finished fourth that season but are a good bet to do better this. The champions back then, by the way, were Everton. A repeat of that is not on the cards any time soon, even if they did well here, taking the lead through Richarlison before Jamie Vardy and Iheanacho hit back for hosts who never stop believing.

“It was a really harsh result for us, for 60-65 minutes we were the best team,” remarked Silva, who said he would not waste time thinking about the implications for his continued employment. “I’m not the right person to ask about that. I know what is my job. Tomorrow will be another day for me to prepare another training session.”

Given the respective form of the teams going into this game, it seemed as if an Everton win would require something close to miraculous. One might have thought that Silva’s strategy, with a new three-man central defence, smacked of a Hail Mary. But in fairness to the beleaguered manager, it turned out to have been immaculately conceived. Leicester struggled for long periods to find openings in the visitors’ defence. Everton’s players certainly did not lie down to sacrifice their manager, applying the gameplan with dynamism and discipline. “I never had doubts about that,” Silva said.

 

THE TELEGRAPH
Why would Brendan Rodgers even have any thoughts about leaving Leicester?

His revolution is gathering momentum at rapid speed and he is now 12 points clear of Jose Mourinho’s Tottenham, in front of Premier League champions Manchester City and breathing down the necks of his former club Liverpool.

He possesses a squad with some of the best young players in the country, a striker in Jamie Vardy who has scored in six consecutive games, and a board who will back him with funds in January.

Kelechi Iheanacho’s dramatic winner deep into added time, awarded by the Video Assistant Referee despite the forward being flagged offside by the linesman, piled on the misery for Marco Silva but the feel-good factor around the King Power Stadium is palpable.

He did confirm the Daily Telegraph’s story that he has a £14 million release clause, but reiterated his commitment to the club on Sunday.

Rodgers has made no secret of his desire to bring European football back to Leicester, admitting that was the target on the day of his official unveiling in February.

But the progress under the Northern Irishman has been remarkable and though he is battling to dampen expectations, it would be a huge disappointment if Leicester were to miss out on the top-four now.

They were made to work hard for their latest triumph, with Everton threatening to sentence Leicester to their first home defeat since April.

After a huge £100 million spend in the summer it was the visitors who had ambitions of hanging on the coat-tails of Liverpool and Manchester City this season.

Yet this has been a season of underachievement, with Silva facing the prospect of becoming the fourth managerial casualty in three-and-a-half years.

 

DAILY MIRROR
Marco Silva lost his last job as Watford boss after defeat at Leicester and he could suffer the ignominy of history repeating itself after this heartbreaking defeat.

His Everton side fought for him at the Foxes but still chucked away the lead to crash to a third defeat in five top-flight games.

It leaves Everton hovering precariously above the drop zone in 17th spot to the dismay of owner Farhad Moshiri, who has pumped in millions.

And it must be doubtful if Silva will even be in charge for Wednesday's trip to unbeaten Premier League neighbours Liverpool .
The Portuguese coach will certainly be fearing the worst after the extraordinary finale here which saw sub Kelechi Iheanacho win it in injury-time.

Referee Graham Scott initially ruled Iheanacho's finish out for offside but the goal was eventually awarded after consulting VAR.

The remarkable scenes sparked wild home celebrations but saw Silva's cautious game-plan and approach go up in flames in tortuous fashion.

He went with a five-man defence for the first time in a year in a bid to stop the in-form Foxes.

It limited the supply line in the first half to the Premier League's leading scorer Jamie Vardy.

And in Richarlison, the visitors had some real quality to get their noses infront as he headed in his his fourth of the season on 23 minutes.

Yet Vardy eventually found his way past the visitors' defence 22 minutes from time with a close-range finish.

Brendan Rodgers' Leicester then snatched a sixth successive League win for the first time since March 1963.

It left Silva staring in disbelief towards the same exit from where he departed the King Power in January 2018 after a 2-0 loss signalled the end of his Watford reign.

 

BBC
Leicester City inflicted the cruellest of blows on beleaguered Everton manager Marco Silva as Kelechi Iheanacho's stoppage-time winner - awarded by the video assistant referee - kept the Foxes on the heels of Premier League leaders Liverpool.

Silva appears to be managing Everton on a game-by-game basis after the club's power-brokers met to discuss his future following the dismal home defeat by Norwich City - and it looked like he would claim a precious point here until just seconds before the end of a pulsating game.

Iheanacho placed a composed finish past Everton goalkeeper Jordan Pickford with the linesman's flag raised for offside but after a lengthy wait, the goal was given amid wild celebrations from Leicester's players and manager Brendan Rodgers as they kept Liverpool's lead at eight points.
Everton deservedly led at half-time after Richarlison headed in powerfully from Djibril Sidibe's cross, although Leicester had a penalty rightly ruled out by VAR after Ben Chilwell went down in a challenge with Mason Holgate.

Silva's side were pulled back after 68 minutes when Jamie Vardy arrived unmarked at the back post to steer in Iheanacho's effort as it flew across the face of goal.

Vardy missed a good chance to win it for Leicester but then came that dramatic finale - and now Silva must wait to see if he is in charge for Wednesday's Merseyside derby at Anfield.

 

THE SUN
HIS time was up – yet Brendan Rodgers still emerged smiling as his Foxes kept the title race alive.

How poor Marco Silva must wish he could say the same!

The under-fire Everton boss had survived the regulation 90 minutes. His team had seen out the three minutes of added stoppage time.

But in ADDED stoppage time – one minute over - Leicester proved why Liverpool would be crazy to write off Rodgers’ amazing never-say-die Foxes as they struck to leave Silva’s job hanging by a thread.
Tom Davies unforgivably gave possession away needlessly and Wilfred Ndidi pounced to thread a precise pass to send kelechi Iheanacho clear of Yarry Mina.

The Nigerian striker slammed the ball expertly into the corner of Jordan Pickford’s net for his first goal since September 2019 – only for standside linesman Richard West to raise his flag for offside.

However, after a VAR check which must have tortured poor Silva, ref Graham Scott confirmed Mina had fractionally played Iheanacho onside and Leicester’s players went ballistic as they hared off to Rodgers to celebrate a sixth win on the spin.

It was an amazing end to an amazing game which saw Leicester throw down the gauntlet – Manchester City may be faltering … Rodgers Foxes appear to be made of sterner stuff!

This match had so much intrigue, so many plots, sub-plots, unexpected twists and turns, Agatha Christie would have been proud to have penned this thriller of a script.

The curtain hadn’t been raised, yet everyone present knew Silva had a loaded gun pointed to his head.

[ultrafox]

8 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

They've won two titles in their entire history. I could list clubs outside the top flight with more than that.

 

They are just top flight regulars, they don't really do anything else.

I really hate to say it but they are more than that!

 

Apart from the fan base...they have

 

8 FA Cups

2 UEFA cups

1 Cup Winners Cup

4 League Cups.

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, ultrafox said:

I really hate to say it but they are more than that!

 

Apart from the fan base...they have

 

8 FA Cups

2 UEFA cups

1 Cup Winners Cup

4 League Cups.

 

 

Don't forget the REAL reason

 

 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

11 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

They've won two titles in their entire history. I could list clubs outside the top flight with more than that.

 

They are just top flight regulars, they don't really do anything else.

London biased media. They’ve flirted with success but won nothing since they became the media darlings

[Facecloth]

11 minutes ago, ultrafox said:

I really hate to say it but they are more than that!

 

Apart from the fan base...they have

 

8 FA Cups

2 UEFA cups

1 Cup Winners Cup

4 League Cups.

 

 

And 1 Audi Cup.

 

Or was it Aldi?

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

8 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Agree with everything tho I don’t remember having that high expectations in O’Neill’s era personally. I was a kid at the time and it blew my mind that we were finishing 9th in the PL and winning League Cups. We had a desperately unfair UEFA Cup experience and when he left for Celtic, it did feel that he’d taken as far as he could, especially with the turmoil above his head at the time (he’d had 3 chairmen in 4 years). 
 

I so tho remember feeling nauseous when Taylor took over and had us top of the league for 2 weeks, albeit for an international break   

We had the briefest of glimpses of what could of been when Collymore partnered Emile in attack vs Sunderland (I think) then Heskey left for Liverpool and that probably made O’Neill’s mind up that he couldn’t take us any further, today it’s very different, we have the infrastructure to have prolonged success (people’s definition of success will always differ) and fantastic owners who always seem to be striving to take us to the next level, somebody wrote somewhere we could become the English equivalent of Servilla, Athletico Madrid or Dortmund, for me as a middle aged City fan that would be success beyond anything I’d ever hoped for.

[urban.spaceman]

7 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

And 1 Audi Cup.

 

Or was it Aldi?

Sponsored by Audi, bought at Aldi. 
 

In the middle section.

 

Between the cheap work surfaces and the £7 walking boots. 

Edited 2 December 2019 by urban.spaceman

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Koke said:

 

I think the accusations are based off us sacking Ranieri and Puel. That our fans demanded more than what borh provided in their last season. Still inaccurate to describe as as wannabe elitist 

In both cases there were justifiable reasons. Ranieri's team hadn't scored for six games, were 17th and had just lost at Millwall in the FA Cup- we were in a relegation battle with no signs of improvement. Puel's results had fallen apart and, no matter what the fans thought, he'd lost any relationship with the players which is never going to end well.

 

It took us a long while to get over the aftermath of O'Neill going and the decline, it will be even bigger when this spell ends but I really don't see our fans believing we are part of an elite. I think we are quite prepared to work for everything we get.

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, ultrafox said:

I really hate to say it but they are more than that!

 

Apart from the fan base...they have

 

8 FA Cups

2 UEFA cups

1 Cup Winners Cup

4 League Cups.

 

 

Sorry yeah, I meant nowadays. I know they've always won the odd trophy here and there, but in the recent years they are seen as a "big club" literally for just finishing top 6 every season. They haven't won anything since 2007 or 2008 (whenever that league cup win was). Their fan base is big but I'd expect that of a side that plays in a capital City. 

 

Any club seen as "big" should have more than two league titles in their entire history.

 

Edited 2 December 2019 by Fox92

[tylesta]

1 hour ago, Corky said:

In both cases there were justifiable reasons. Ranieri's team hadn't scored for six games, were 17th and had just lost at Millwall in the FA Cup- we were in a relegation battle with no signs of improvement. Puel's results had fallen apart and, no matter what the fans thought, he'd lost any relationship with the players which is never going to end well.

 

It took us a long while to get over the aftermath of O'Neill going and the decline, it will be even bigger when this spell ends but I really don't see our fans believing we are part of an elite. I think we are quite prepared to work for everything we get.

lost to 10 man millwall. thats never said,.

[egg_fried_rice]

https://www.football365.com/news/f365-says-leicester-show-everton-the-power-of-planning

F365 Says: Leicester show Everton the power of planning

It is a common misconception that Leicester won the Premier League title by chance in 2016. It was the consequence of the perfect storm, of course: the normal frontrunners all tripped over their shoelaces and they ruthlessly capitalised. But it was not entirely unplanned.

 

“I am asking for three years, and we’ll be there,” said the late Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha in May 2014. With Leicester having just won the Championship with 102 points, it felt like a jarring plea for patience. Who asks for more time to complete not only mission impossible, but mission uncontemplated?

 

His aim, as head of a consortium that bought a club fresh out of League One in 2010, was to reach the Premier League’s top five. “We won’t take the huge leap immediately,” he added, with a blissful unawareness. “Do we have a chance to beat them? Yes, we have, but I think we need to establish our foothold in the league first and then we think about our next step.”

 

Everton, at that stage, had just enjoyed their greatest Premier League season ever in terms of points. They had finished above Manchester United and Tottenham, closer to champions Manchester City than eight-placed Southampton. They came fifth: the first of Leicester’s unscalable mountains.

 

Their paths have certainly diverged in the five years since. While Leicester reached an unthinkable peak – and are planting as many rods as possible to make lightning strike twice – Everton have meandered and muddled in search of their own promised land. The Toffees were in perennial pole position to challenge the elite; the Foxes have planned their rear-view mirror overtake impeccably.

 

That was the story of their 94-minute meeting at the King Power Stadium on Sunday – and those stoppage-time minutes do bear including. A disciplined, organised Everton took, deserved and defended their lead. Marco Silva, the bell for last orders having rung in his ears for weeks, chose to share his latest sip at the last-chance saloon with a three-man defence.

 

If this was to be an unlikely encore, Richarlison was a fitting final clap. He started and finished a sweeping move that incorporated Dominic Calvert-Lewin’s hold-up play and decoy run, Alex Iwobi’s dribbling and Djibril Sidibe’s cross, before the Brazilian headed home to repay his manager’s unwavering faith in him.

 

And for exactly 45 minutes, that was enough. Both teams channelled their former managers: Leicester as slow, predictable and plodding as they ever were under Claude Puel, countered at ease by an Everton side Sam Allardyce would have been proud of.

 

Therein lies the problem; Everton cannot maintain performances for more than half a match, and Leicester cannot be expected to underperform for anywhere near as long. The visitors led the race but had run out of gas by the time the hosts pressed on the accelerator.

 

Silva orchestrated the opening stages with his tactical approach, but Brendan Rodgers has developed a particular sense for finding intriguing answers to new questions. How could Everton be broken down? By introducing a player with no Premier League goals or assists since November 24.

Of 2018.

 

It was a novel approach, not least because this was Kelechi Iheanacho’s first Premier League appearance of any kind since the cameo that included his title-clinching miss against Manchester City in May. Liverpool supporters must not have expected him to burn them for a second time so soon.

 

His assist for Jamie Vardy’s equaliser was sublime, coming six minutes after his introduction. His winner, ably laid on by VAR, was wonderful. His impact was astonishing.

 

But the key was always that “foothold” that Srivaddhanaprabha referenced in 2014. Leicester’s was Nigel Pearson, who elevated them to Claudio Ranieri. When they needed the same effect, Puel came in to steady the situation and Rodgers inherited the best elements of his work and was employed to eliminate the poorer parts. Everton’s only dalliance with stability over status was their Allardyce panic. They need someone to help them walk again before they run.

 

And so the paths these two teams follow only continues to split. Leicester have established themselves as Liverpool’s main rivals for a second title in four years. They have more than twice as many points as Everton, who spiral further towards the relegation zone. Neither know where this journey will end, but only one has cause to fear the unknown. It is now clear that Silva will not be – and arguably has not been – guiding them.