What's in the news?

[Sampson]

I didn't realise anyone assumed Corbyn would lead his party to be anything but pro-Brexit by this point.

 

Both he and John MacDonnell have been staunchly anti-EU their entire lives and both are also well known for being stubborn and staunchly sticking to their principles their entire life. The party has always quite obviously and unsubtly been anti-EU under Corbyn and MacDonnell's entire leadership and they've deliberately and constantly denied every conversation on it for a reason.

[The Guvnor]

Paddy Ashdown has died of Bladder Cancer aged 77.

[Guest MattP]

17 hours ago, Sampson said:

I didn't realise anyone assumed Corbyn would lead his party to be anything but pro-Brexit by this point.

 

Both he and John MacDonnell have been staunchly anti-EU their entire lives and both are also well known for being stubborn and staunchly sticking to their principles their entire life. The party has always quite obviously and unsubtly been anti-EU under Corbyn and MacDonnell's entire leadership and they've deliberately and constantly denied every conversation on it for a reason.

This pretty much nails it. 

Why some Labour voters still indulge in this fantasy he's prepared to stay in the EU is pretty strange. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

This pretty much nails it. 

Why some Labour voters still indulge in this fantasy he's prepared to stay in the EU is pretty strange. 

 

It's only the naive element among the Remainers who see him as a committed Remainer - though there's a fair few of them.

After the referendum, there were some who swore blind that Corbyn had been a committed, energetic campaigner for Remain. He wasn't.

He addressed a few Remain rallies, preaching to the converted to comply with party policy, but did almost no external campaigning, declined invitations to TV interviews & expressed "remain but reform" views critical of the EU in those he did give.

 

I'm sure he'd be prepared to stay in the EU if he's forced to. He'd just prefer to leave (but maintain a close relationship) so that the power of the British state to intervene in the economy is not restricted.

His ideal solution would be a Soft Brexit, I presume.

 

He's in a peculiar situation now:

- If an election occurs soon, unless others prevail over him, he'll pursue the current policy: "a Brexit for jobs", customs union, keep EU social/employment regulation etc.

- If a second referendum is triggered, the party will probably back Remain....so he'll be back to his half-baked campaigning as in 2016

His preference for Soft Brexit over Remain partly explains why he doesn't want a Vote of Confidence in the Govt until he's sure he can win it & trigger an election......if he loses such a vote, he risks leading his pro-Remain party into a referendum

 

Ironically, some of the Tory Remainers are in the opposite situation: they want a referendum but don't want to risk an election. 

 

Which direction will the ERG crew break in, though? Some will stay put, happy with No Deal, I presume. Some will bottle out and vote for May's deal (but probably not enough for May to win, I'd guess).

Any prediction as to what the others will do, Matt? Might some of them gamble on an election or referendum, even though it's high-risk? 

The polls seem to suggest a referendum might produce a narrow Remain win, but would be close - and that there's every chance of the Tories still being the largest single party after an election, though that's also unpredictable - and less chance of them winning a majority....

 

[Guest MattP]

20 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

It's only the naive element among the Remainers who see him as a committed Remainer - though there's a fair few of them.

After the referendum, there were some who swore blind that Corbyn had been a committed, energetic campaigner for Remain. He wasn't.

He addressed a few Remain rallies, preaching to the converted to comply with party policy, but did almost no external campaigning, declined invitations to TV interviews & expressed "remain but reform" views critical of the EU in those he did give.

 

I'm sure he'd be prepared to stay in the EU if he's forced to. He'd just prefer to leave (but maintain a close relationship) so that the power of the British state to intervene in the economy is not restricted.

His ideal solution would be a Soft Brexit, I presume.

 

He's in a peculiar situation now:

- If an election occurs soon, unless others prevail over him, he'll pursue the current policy: "a Brexit for jobs", customs union, keep EU social/employment regulation etc.

- If a second referendum is triggered, the party will probably back Remain....so he'll be back to his half-baked campaigning as in 2016

His preference for Soft Brexit over Remain partly explains why he doesn't want a Vote of Confidence in the Govt until he's sure he can win it & trigger an election......if he loses such a vote, he risks leading his pro-Remain party into a referendum

 

Ironically, some of the Tory Remainers are in the opposite situation: they want a referendum but don't want to risk an election. 

 

Which direction will the ERG crew break in, though? Some will stay put, happy with No Deal, I presume. Some will bottle out and vote for May's deal (but probably not enough for May to win, I'd guess).

Any prediction as to what the others will do, Matt? Might some of them gamble on an election or referendum, even though it's high-risk? 

The polls seem to suggest a referendum might produce a narrow Remain win, but would be close - and that there's every chance of the Tories still being the largest single party after an election, though that's also unpredictable - and less chance of them winning a majority....

Under what Soft Brexit now appears to be I would doubt Corbyn deep down could support it (publicly he might though), it clearly will leave us in regulatory lines alongside the EU in terms of trade and taxation and that was always ones of the reasons why he didn't want to go into it.

I have almost given up on trying to predict anything now but I can see a General Election now next year whatever happens, it's just no use at all having a parliament without either a stable coalition or a majority, it just doesn't work in terms of actually getting anything done. Ironically I think the Tories might just win it if that were to happen, I still don't see the country voting for Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and Diane Abbott to run it, it's incredible Labour aren't in a poll lead given the absolutely shambolic administration we currently have and that says everything about the opposition at this current point in time.

I think some of the ERG are prepared to gamble, some won't. I know guys like Bridgen will do as they don't see May's deal as "Brexit" anyway, so they actually see it as having nothing to lose even if it means us staying in, just as key a question is how many Remainers would be prepared to vote down May's deal if it comes to the house a second time around and risk "No Deal" - if the EU turn around and say that's it it's a possibility.

[Buce]

Tory Housing Minister says government policies may be to blame for rising homelessness:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/24/housing-secretary-james-brokenshire-admits-tory-policies-blame-homelessness-rise

[Legend_in_blue]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46675612

 

Feeling completely violated after a drone search.

 

Not quite sure what to make of it tbh.

 

[yorkie1999]

27 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46675612

 

Feeling completely violated after a drone search.

 

Not quite sure what to make of it tbh.

 

Felt the same a few times at the airport...snappp

[Mayofox]

Outside a theatre in Dublin this evening, Bono and The Edge were busking, in support of the Simon Community, a homelessness charity. In Dublin there are around 100 people sleeping rough tonight.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Mayofox said:

Outside a theatre in Dublin this evening, Bono and The Edge were busking, in support of the Simon Community, a homelessness charity. In Dublin there are around 100 people sleeping rough tonight.

 

No offence, but wouldn’t it have been more useful if they’d just put their hands in their pockets, rather than collecting change by busking?

[Buce]

Coppers get some pretty bad press but here’s a story to warm the heart:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46676372

[lifted*fox]

14 minutes ago, Buce said:

No offence, but wouldn’t it have been more useful if they’d just put their hands in their pockets, rather than collecting change by busking?

 

Absolutely but Bono & the Edge are all about Bono & the Edge and them busking is a bigger ego stroking tale to tell than just whacking down £5000 so they can put everyone in a hotel room for the night. 

[Mayofox]

2 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

 

Absolutely but Bono & the Edge are all about Bono & the Edge and them busking is a bigger ego stroking tale to tell than just whacking down £5000 so they can put everyone in a hotel room for the night. 

I think this is the third time in five years they've done this. However maybe they'd forgotten that U2 own a hotel in Dublin! They could have thrown open the doors tonight to the needy. You know, as in Bethlehem.

[foxile5]

7 hours ago, Mayofox said:

I think this is the third time in five years they've done this. However maybe they'd forgotten that U2 own a hotel in Dublin! They could have thrown open the doors tonight to the needy. You know, as in Bethlehem.

U2, and in particular Bono, are frauds of the highest order. Any charitable action they do is bathed in self promotion and congratulation. 

 

The Irish aren't a fan for his rampant tax dodging, as above - he could literally give his hotel away for a night; he chooses to make a show of giving away, to him, a pittance instead, the busking. 

 

It's all so transparent. 

[Buce]

 

Is it warm enough for you, @ozleicester?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/27/australias-extreme-heatwave-spans-five-states-with-high-of-49c-forecast

[lifted*fox]

HOT OFF THE PRESS 

 

 

[Foxxed]

What's going to happen when we leave the EU in about 80 days or so? I don't mean to start a pros-cons debate. I'm seriously wondering what will happen.

 

May is trying to force two decisions: her deal or (what she is suggesting is a bad) no deal. She's trying to force this because the MPs will get a vote early next year. But what will happen? One hundred of her MPs want her out and more dislike her deal. And Corbyn, and I assume the whipped Labour party, want to vote her deal down so he can negotiation his Brexit. That to me heavily suggests they'll vote down her deal.

 

Say Parliament votes down her deal then what? We have a large amount of trade deals with the EU. If the deals and systems remain the same they'll be little point in being in the EU. And there's no way the EU will telegraph the idea: you can leave, stop paying into the budget and pretty much everything will be the same. So if May's deal is voted down do we ask for an extension until we can get our act together or fall to the mercy of whatever conditions the EU puts on our imports and exports (and the other way around).

 

And if May can't get her deal through Parlimanet where does that leave her? Brexit was her main task and should she be unable to perform that task can she continue on as PM? And if she can't will the Tory party then decide what kind of Brexit we get with a new PM or will we go straight to the public to decide the next PM?

[ozleicester]

12 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Is it warm enough for you, @ozleicester?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/27/australias-extreme-heatwave-spans-five-states-with-high-of-49c-forecast

Just driven across Adelaide.... 39 degrees where i left from.... 43 degrees where i arrived. 

 

Love looking at the wintery xmas cards from rellies in the UK

Edited 27 December 2018 by ozleicester

[surrifox]

On 25/12/2018 at 08:37, foxile5 said:

U2, and in particular Bono, are frauds of the highest order. Any charitable action they do is bathed in self promotion and congratulation. 

 

The Irish aren't a fan for his rampant tax dodging, as above - he could literally give his hotel away for a night; he chooses to make a show of giving away, to him, a pittance instead, the busking. 

 

It's all so transparent. 

As if being homeless at Christmas wasn’t bad enough you have to listen to that shite 

[kingfox]

NYC last night

 

As it was going on this tweet cracked me up  

 

[fuchsntf]

13 hours ago, Foxxed said:

What's going to happen when we leave the EU in about 80 days or so? I don't mean to start a pros-cons debate. I'm seriously wondering what will happen.

 

May is trying to force two decisions: her deal or (what she is suggesting is a bad) no deal. She's trying to force this because the MPs will get a vote early next year. But what will happen? One hundred of her MPs want her out and more dislike her deal. And Corbyn, and I assume the whipped Labour party, want to vote her deal down so he can negotiation his Brexit. That to me heavily suggests they'll vote down her deal.

 

Say Parliament votes down her deal then what? We have a large amount of trade deals with the EU. If the deals and systems remain the same they'll be little point in being in the EU. And there's no way the EU will telegraph the idea: you can leave, stop paying into the budget and pretty much everything will be the same. So if May's deal is voted down do we ask for an extension until we can get our act together or fall to the mercy of whatever conditions the EU puts on our imports and exports (and the other way around).

 

And if May can't get her deal through Parlimanet where does that leave her? Brexit was her main task and should she be unable to perform that task can she continue on as PM? And if she can't will the Tory party then decide what kind of Brexit we get with a new PM or will we go straight to the public to decide the next PM?

Death of British politics???   ...being far from the local British streets,corner-table in pubs, and the family discussions???

which politicians, locally and national do the British public trust....???

[Foxxed]

38 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Death of British politics???   ...being far from the local British streets,corner-table in pubs, and the family discussions???

which politicians, locally and national do the British public trust....???

I really don't know. I'm not convinced by Corbyn but I've met people who like him. I've only met people who prefer May to Corbyn rather than liking May herself. There are maybe three or four other politicans I can listen to without turning over the channel. I stopped watching Newsnight for that reason. Some are marching about a Brexit "betrayal" and being convinced to bloody the existing democratic system - see the leave campaign's "westmonster" project. I literally don't know who is in charge of the Lib Dems and I think the Greens have taken a nose dive.

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I really don't know. I'm not convinced by Corbyn but I've met people who like him. I've only met people who prefer May to Corbyn rather than liking May herself. There are maybe three or four other politicans I can listen to without turning over the channel. I stopped watching Newsnight for that reason. Some are marching about a Brexit "betrayal" and being convinced to bloody the existing democratic system - see the leave campaign's "westmonster" project. I literally don't know who is in charge of the Lib Dems and I think the Greens have taken a nose dive.

I barely know a single voter now that has anything positive to say about either of them, it's tragic a nation which once had Disraeli and Gladstone arguing across the despatch box now has these two.

 

The fact the Tories are neck and neck with a Labour party whose leadership have praised virtually every single left wing dictator on the planet, sat alongside holocaust deniers and spent years supporting people who were massacring British citizens says it all about the state of the right and were we are.

 

Literally the only reason I can think of to vote Conservative now is to not let my country fall into the hands of people like McDonnell and Abbott and that makes me want to cry.

[Foxxed]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

I barely know a single voter now that has anything positive to say about either of them, it's tragic a nation which once had Disraeli and Gladstone arguing across the despatch box now has these two.

 

The fact the Tories are neck and neck with a Labour party whose leadership have praised virtually every single left wing dictator on the planet, sat alongside holocaust deniers and spent years supporting people who were massacring British citizens says it all about the state of the right and were we are.

 

Literally the only reason I can think of to vote Conservative now is to not let my country fall into the hands of people like McDonnell and Abbott and that makes me want to cry.

I actually met a fairly sane Corbyn supporter the other day. I was impressed. Keir Starmer seems a decent labour politican with a good background. I'm hoping there are more than just one though!

[LiberalFox]

I'm slightly fed up of people just attacking Corbyn rather than examining the flaws with socialist policy. We are in danger of leaving the EU without a deal and then electing a loony left government unrestricted by EU law. Look forward to Corbyn taking advantage of the lack of state aid regulation to subsidise everything and anything. Might actually be decent for a few years before we run out of money. Or we'll get a hard right Tory government.